France survives turn 1, what now?



  • So lets assume Germany and Italy could not take Paris on turn 1 and UK home fleet survives. What is the best plan with France turn? Then what should the Allies do?


  • 2017

    The Axis player congratulates the Allies’ player on a well win.

    Re-cock, switch sides, and start over.

    Most of the times Paris doesn’t fall, it’s because Germany was doing something irregular like trying to simultaneously get S. France and Normandy.


  • 2018 2017

    Good idea, Ichabod!  Happy Holidays.

    This battle shouldn’t fail.  If it did, something went horribly wrong in your Axis planning (see our other endless arguments about this in the archive)

    If the Attack fails during Germany turn 1, did you notice that 6? UK/French planes can fly over and garrison Paris?  So if France had any pieces left (usually 1 fighter) now they have like 7 Fighters plus 6-10 fodder!    That makes the killing blow on G2 super-costly, but to the Allies as well.  (to do this, UK left Italy ships alone, but they can’t help Paris anyways).

    If they do this, Italy should still throw itself at Paris in order to soften the way for Germany 2 round.

    Paris just buys 6 units and needs to get rid of its $$.  It could have as many as 13+4 = 17 (10 “2s” and 7 “4s”), so Germany will need to lightsaber it the second round (with basically all its planes).

    Really, as the Allies, I wouldn’t do this, you lose all your fighters.    If the Axis blow the Paris take, your chances of winning just doubled.  I’d just play the rest of the Allied game conservatively and win the slow game, knowing that Germany completely blew its initiative, money, timing, and cannon fodder attacking a minor power.  Germany cannot possibly fail the second round (literally can bring like 40 units including all planes because you don’t want 7 fighters ripping you up in the retal).  And when it wins, it wasted 2 full rounds going West, not East.



  • Would it be better to build 6 units in Paris to kill a few more German ground units, or to build some ships in whichever coastal zone is available, if any, expecting that the ships will be alive for multiple turns?


  • 2018 2017

    Sure!  Probably wont do much, but you have a new chance that you didn’t have before.  3 French subs killing Axis income, sure!

    Only problem is that most of the times that Germany blows Paris, its because he successfully took So Fr and Normandy, so you only have the Paris fac.

    I might also add that the Axis are quite OP in G40 OOB so they could still probably win the game even blowing Paris–its just going to be a much longer, more stalemated and sloggy game.


  • 2018 2017

    I had something like this in our game over the weekend.  Germany captured France, but only one ground unit survived the combat.  I wasn’t trying to do anything tricky, just had a bad case of getting diced.  UK then reinforced both France (with A/C) and Normandy (with ground units via the transport that survived from 109).  To complicate matters, I also attacked Russia G1.  After three turns I finally solidified my hold on Western Europe, but by that time my attack into Russia had petered out.

    It was no fun.  No fun at all.  If that happens to you, best to seek best terms available at peace talks.  8-)



  • @taamvan:

    Sure!   Probably wont do much, but you have a new chance that you didn’t have before.  3 French subs killing Axis income, sure!

    Only problem is that most of the times that Germany blows Paris, its because he successfully took So Fr and Normandy, so you only have the Paris fac.

    I might also add that the Axis are quite OP in G40 OOB so they could still probably win the game even blowing Paris–its just going to be a much longer, more stalemated and sloggy game.

    Germany losing a normal battle of paris will set the axis so far back that winning in europe is nearly impossible anymore.
    So japan has to bring the US in the war from round 1 to have a decent chance and even that is hard to get because you got full US vs japan.

    IF germany goes to light then yes but if you get diced really hard ( like also losing the battles in 110 and 111 ) germany is dead in the water.


  • 2019 2017 2016

    If only one fighter survives in Paris after G1, Italy should be able to clean up, so it would have to be a bigger loss for Germany than that.

    I agree with Ichabod, Axis can’t recover if Italy can’t clean up Paris.


  • 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    @simon33:

    If only one fighter survives in Paris after G1, Italy should be able to clean up, so it would have to be a bigger loss for Germany than that.

    I agree with Ichabod, Axis can’t recover if Italy can’t clean up Paris.

    Unless UK stacks it with planes


  • 2019 2017 2016

    Not sure I agree. Ok, checking, UK has 5 fighters in reach by my count. Even if they throw in everything including the bomber, it still becomes a coin flip. Without the bomber for some spare soaking of hits, it’s 70% to Italy.

    I hope UK buys 9 inf if it does that because it’s left itself totally exposed.


  • 2018 2017

    We’ve done it in a live game, its a wash.  France would need more to survive to make it matter than just 1 fighter.

    3 Fig/UK
    2 Fig/France
    1 Gib fig
    1 malta fig
    1 TB from 98
    (1 fighter from Leningrad if youre nuttay)

    France bought 6 cannon fodder
    bomber crew

    7 wimps 9 hitters still not worth it but awesome.  Germany lost a significant amount of its land and air force taking it out.



  • If you are playing a person that is so far beneath your level that you can still beat him after the 1-3% outcome of a failed Paris attack, you should have given him a starting bonus!

    Dice do happen and there are times where it is better to just concede.  I had a game where G1 went VERY poorly, followed by more bad luck for the Italians, followed by horrible luck on G2-G4.  My opponent was not happy that I gave up so early, but Germany was already facing doom.  The Allied fleet was hug and Russia did not have to fear any significant attack deep into their territories.  It is hard to win in the Pacific when the US can focus 100% in that theater.  No thanks to another six turns just to prove that I could not win.



  • Even if a normal Paris attack
    7 inf 3 art 4 mech 6 tanks results in mutual annihilation for germany and france it will be a pretty uphill battle…

    And having a subpar round 1 with germany (6 hits should be around average) and a perfect defence of france round 1 can already be a disaster.
    Which isnt that far fetched and if you lose this battle its just bad luck.

    Sure italy can walk in but the huge loss of units for germany and the lack of the money round 2 will be felt hard against russia.



  • I am trying to figure out what exactly to do if Paris remains. I don’t know if it is wise to pull the French out of Paris (if any survive) or to try to get the allies to reinforce it as best as possible and try to hold on to it.

    Also USSR fighter can’t legally land on Paris unless Germany declared war.



  • Not capturing Paris is already a ~80 PU swing for the Allies.  The defeat also means that the German forces will not be capable of standing toe-to-toe with the Russian stack outside of Moscow on G5/G6.  Another result of the dicing is that the US can spend nearly 100% of their income in the Pacific for the first ~4 turns without worrying that Germany is getting out of control.

    The Axis must pray that the Allies are truly incompetent and can’t take advantage of this massive advantage.



  • I agree. As I have said many times on these boards, France has a 97% lose and I only failed once to take Paris because I went after Normandy and Vichy on the same turn. However there has to be a plan in place if France manages to hold on.



  • @Caesar:

    I agree. As I have said many times on these boards, France has a 97% lose and I only failed once to take Paris because I went after Normandy and Vichy on the same turn. However there has to be a plan in place if France manages to hold on.

    Unless you spend a large amount on both normandy and france the chance of taking paris is still over 90%
    IF you lose a 90% battle that is just bad luck, not skill like some players here always seem to think.

    As axis when you cant take france round 1 its basicaly over. just restart the game.



  • Well I am sure France surviving turn 1 will annoy Axis but I don’t think it’s the end of the game.



  • @Caesar:

    Well I am sure France surviving turn 1 will annoy Axis but I don’t think it’s the end of the game.

    If you attacked normal against france it is.
    Not only did frace survive you also lost nearly half the german army including most of its starting armor and mechs.
    And you have to divert even more forces towards france round 2, so you cannot attack russia round 3 or even round 4.
    Germany and Italy will not be fighting for moscow they will be fighting for berlin and i dont see japan surviving against a full Japan only strat from the US for that long.



  • USSR is so weak in the game that I think it would put Germany on par with USSR so in that case, it might force Germany to accept help from Italy at that point. US obviously will focus entirely against Japan. I think Japan will be able to hold of US if they were smart and went right for the Dutch Islands.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    The real question everyone should be asking, isn’t what should Germany/Italy do.  It’s how Japan should respond to this catastrophe.

    J1? J2? J3?  Or what does Japan have in mind?


  • 2018 2017 2016

    @Gargantua:

    The real question everyone should be asking, isn’t what should Germany/Italy do.  It’s how Japan should respond to this catastrophe.

    J1? J2? J3?  Or what does Japan have in mind?

    DoW on Germany; send Kamikaze Fighters to Berlin and bomb the Fuehrerbunker to dust! 8-)

    And watch the Pride of the German Wehrmacht… 😄

    20180103_101520.png



  • @Caesar:

    USSR is so weak in the game that I think it would put Germany on par with USSR so in that case, it might force Germany to accept help from Italy at that point. US obviously will focus entirely against Japan. I think Japan will be able to hold of US if they were smart and went right for the Dutch Islands.

    USSR isnt weak at all, germany needs to buy the right things in order to overpower USSR.
    Without the forces used to attack france and without the income boost round 1 i doubt that germany can take on USSR at all.



  • USSR is incredibly weak in G40 for a major power.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    And America isn’t? It had 7 Carriers and 17  Battleships in late 1941, yet when the game begins it has one of each.
    And Japan starting with 21 Air, is realistic as hell too.


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