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German carrier, J1 DOW, USA builds bombers, now what?


  • 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    On turn 1 Germany builds a carrier, bombers or does something that makes you think SEALION

    Then Japan declares war and goes moo moo moo all over the pacific

    Then USA builds 4 bombers and keeps the original 1 at home (these could reinforce London)

    Then turn 2 Germany builds 0 transports

    Will the allies survive in the Pacific?  What now?



  • UK should be building fighters and infantry.


  • 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    Yes we can assume UK has built enough that Germany has decided against sealion.  The question is what is the best thing USA can do in the pacific having built all bombers on turn 1?



  • IMHO regardless of what is happening on the globe that the USA on turn 1 builds 2 CV and one BB OR 2 CV one CA and one DD.

    Get the navy pumping. USA can move to a more balanced build approach once they are in the war and pumping out 70+ IPC.



  • @variance:

    Yes we can assume UK has built enough that Germany has decided against sealion.  The question is what is the best thing USA can do in the pacific having built all bombers on turn 1?

    Well, then the USA builds all navy on Turn 2 on the west coast and sends the 5 bombers to London on T2 Or send all 5 STR to Hawaii for Japan to contemplate, reflect and decide what to do about that.



  • If Germany builds a CV on Turn 1, I know with out a doubt they are not going Sea Lion.

    UK though still needs to build the standard 6/1 or 9 build just make sure Germany turns to the East.


  • 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    @PainState:

    Well, then the USA builds all navy on Turn 2 on the west coast and sends the 5 bombers to London on T2 Or send all 5 STR to Hawaii for Japan to contemplate, reflect and decide what to do about that.

    So London or Hawaii.  How about Scotland? New Zealand? Buryatia?



  • My gut reaction, on how I like to play is to go into Morroco/and then on USA2 start moving into Tunisia and Algeria. Then on USA3 have the Bombers show up and totally decimate Italy IC on USA4.

    That is just me though


  • 2018 2017

    Rainstate,

    When you say you know for sure that Germany is not going Sea Lion with the German turn why do you say that?


  • 2018 2017 2016

    @variance:

    Then USA builds 4 bombers and keeps the original 1 at home (these could reinforce London)

    Will the allies survive in the Pacific?  What now?

    Assuming Germany goes for Barbarossa, US build Subs for Atl and Pac and a CV.
    Now you should be basically be covered and go back to normal on your buys.

    Strategic:
    You can use the StratB. /SS to destroy any Gibraltar Navy of the Enemy and any DD blockers from Japan sz16.
    With this you created a secure Radius and a Deadzone.
    Purchase the regular units you need and reinforce the SS and StratB’s from time to time.
    Expand the Radius after Axis Dow on both sides on Gibraltar and Havaii/Queensland or Carolines  😉

    This should compensate the starting purchase. I don’t think it should be a Standard opener dir US because:

    If Germany attacked sz 106 successfully with one or two surviving SS’s then possible fast landings on Gib and Morroco are on hold till you bought a DD and Ftrs.
    😄

    Other then that you should still be able to win as Allies.

    AetV


  • 2018 2017 2016

    Start doing the majority of your purchases in the Pacific but don’t forget about the Atlantic. Maybe add a Destroyer to counter the German subs lurking. Take the 5 bombers and put them on London. You have some options now. You could strategic bomb Germany. When Russia enters the war you could take out the German navy so Russia can move into Scandinavia for an extra 11 IPC’s per turn. You could land them on Russia or London and look for high value targets of opportunity, like German bombers for instance. You could make sure the German navy never returns. Add one bomber to it every turn or 2 to make it a reverse Dark Skies Strategy. You could smoke Hitler with so many lefts that he will beg you for a right.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    I would send all 5 Bombers to London amd buy two CVs and 2 DDs for the Pacific.
    You will need one DD in the Atlantic , otherwise no other Eastern purchases on US2. Take Brazil as the US, so you have Inf for your future Eastern  TTs.
    Those 5 Bombers ought to deter the Germans moving to SZ91 for a while. (An Eastern purchased Sub would be nice to soak up a hit and ensure the Germans needed  a DD for 91, rather than go after the Russian Subs.)



  • My question is why would Japan do a J1 if Germany is going Sea Lion?

    Since I would never build a bomber force on turn 1 no matter what, had I done that then those bombers must be in position on turn 2 to ensure there is no Sea Lion threat. Those Bombers will eventually fall into the right applicable mode.


  • 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    @Leatherneckinlv:

    My question is why would Japan do a J1 if Germany is going Sea Lion?

    Germany is threatening sealion.


  • 2018 2017

    Bombers on the West Coast can fly to London (or Iceland or Scotland)
    Bombers on the East Coast can fly to Any American Airbase Island

    Bombers on Scotland can fly direct to Moscow
    and from Queensland to India to Moscow

    Use these facts to confuse your opponent about what America intends to do.  Also use them to change your plan completely in order to adapt to Axis developments.  I wouldn’t buy all bombers because a CV and DD and TTs early help build threat on the water much better, and without TTs your opponent can often ignore you…



  • If Germany is doing Sea Lion……Japan must then support that by not bringing the US into the war. Keep those US factories minors and income and movement restricted


  • 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    Right, so… if I am the axis and I threaten sealion strongly with Germany and then make the “mistake” of doing a J1, and the USA responds by doing the bomber thing, does that give me an advantage in the Pacific or can USA still do well against Japan with building no ships on the first turn?



  • In this scenario the US is in a damned if I do position.

    As a US player I would focus on UK not falling and consolidate the US in the Pacific. A couple of AP’s in the Pacific would go a long way to threaten landings in Pacific territories. US must coordinate with the ANZAC for an economy of force.

    Primary Objective= UK, London not falling
    Secondary Objective= Methodically match Japan so Japan can’t go hog wild (US/ANZAC cooperation) Nice staging area is Hawaiian or preferably Caroline Islands



  • @variance:

    On turn 1 Germany builds a carrier, bombers or does something that makes you think SEALION

    Then Japan declares war and goes moo moo moo all over the pacific

    Then USA builds 4 bombers and keeps the original 1 at home (these could reinforce London)

    Then turn 2 Germany builds 0 transports

    Will the allies survive in the Pacific?  What now?

    @Leatherneckinlv:

    In this scenario the US is in a damned if I do position.

    As a US player I would focus on UK not falling and consolidate the US in the Pacific. A couple of AP’s in the Pacific would go a long way to threaten landings in Pacific territories. US must coordinate with the ANZAC for an economy of force.

    Primary Objective= UK, London not falling
    Secondary Objective= Methodically match Japan so Japan can’t go hog wild (US/ANZAC cooperation) Nice staging area is Hawaiian or preferably Caroline Islands

    Remembering what started the conversation, I’m assuming the UK also did a pretty standard defend the home island build on UK1 (but may have smoked the Italian navy). The USA 4 bmr build has pretty much insured that Sea lion is off the table IMO (if it was even on the table to begin with). Sounds like the Germans were doing a Sea lion faint mainly to force the UK to defend their Island Nation (stalling any early builds around Africa/Middle East), and would consider an invasion only if the allies didn’t respond in a responsible way. Given that G2 showed no transport builds the Germans got what they wanted lol.

    Now the question is where should the US send those bmrs, and what to build on US2 etc….?

    Need to decide which side gets most of the US income (rounds 2-4)

    I probably keep those bmrs on the Euro side to take out that shiny new German navy ASAP and start a bombing campaign on Germany to make every unit they build cost more $$$ (including former Russian ICs as they fall). With that said I think that the allies have basically set-up to attack the German economy, so Norway should probably be in their sights too (need to take out the Baltic fleet ASAP). Those same US bmrs can also help tip the scales of a Moscow attack (could also delay an attack for a round or two) and hit the German ICs at the same time. Yea I would probably start building some navy on the Euro side in a coordinated effort w/UK getting on the beaches forcing Germany to deal with lost income and allied landings.

    On the Pac side I agree you need to consolidate all Pac resources, and force the Japanese to defend the money islands and Asia proper.

    Yep you have some catch up to do on both sides with navy builds. You start with quite a bit on the Pac side though. You need some help from the Anz to add defense to the Pac fleet as you build-up. The Pacific side often ends up in a stalemate once the US gets to even par. The US is generally the wrecking ball, as Anz cleans up or takes some islands etc…but a couple US transports also threaten Japanese holdings.

    Kinda need more info, First was there a bid? Did the Japanese include a hit on Pearl Harbor J1? Are those US ships still in play?


  • 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    As usual, you give some very helpful comments WILD BILL.  Thank you.

    I’d say the US ships on the pacific side are all intact, since japan only hit Philippines, Borneo, Hong Kong, and the Battleship.  Let’s there was a bid for sub in z98 and some ground troops around Africa.  Those are fairly typical.

    If I understand correctly, the bombers should be going to Europe and Japan might be getting an easy ride in the Pacific for a while



  • @variance:

    As usual, you give some very helpful comments WILD BILL.  Thank you.

    I’d say the US ships on the pacific side are all intact, since japan only hit Philippines, Borneo, Hong Kong, and the Battleship.  Let’s there was a bid for sub in z98 and some ground troops around Africa.  Those are fairly typical.

    If I understand correctly, the bombers should be going to Europe and Japan might be getting an easy ride in the Pacific for a while

    Thanks Variance, yea I know that many don’t like to go Europe first and that SBR comes with some risks. Just seems that with US buying so many bmrs on the first turn that an econ attack on Germany fits. The range allows you to hit multiple ICs every turn (some may not get protection), and also keeps some of the Euro axis fighters tied down (plus they will probably keep 2 planes on their carrier). I would probably continue to add a US bmr every turn or two so the pressure stays on. At some point you will have to decide to hit the Baltic fleet or just continue to pound the ICs. With 5+ bmrs in Europe I can’t see the Germans risking the Baltic fleet in open waters so you will have to go in and kill it, maybe a double hit with US/UK?

    I don’t like letting Japan grow, but when the US is brought in on the first turn I think you have to make the Euro axis pay. You have a pretty good stating fleet in the Pac (unless they also hit Pearl) so you should be able to bounce back mid game and keep Japan from getting (or keeping) the 6th VC. The Anz needs to defend itself and also build some navy to the help the US to come up/over. UK also needs to play well and maybe do some building in the Middle East so it can throw resources where needed.  A Japanese attack on India means that the Japanese fleet may be split allowing access to the money islands or an attack of opportunity. Some times it’s better to evac India and save those units for another day?


  • 2016 2015 '10

    @variance:

    Right, so… if I am the axis and I threaten sealion strongly with Germany and then make the “mistake” of doing a J1, and the USA responds by doing the bomber thing, does that give me an advantage in the Pacific or can USA still do well against Japan with building no ships on the first turn?

    USA should be fine.  After a J1, I can’t fault USA for investing in bombers and possibly using them on the Europe board, especially if Germany bought an ac or dd g1.  If USA decides to focus on Japan, USA can fly some bombers to New Zealand or Queensland, while buying naval units USA2 and USA3.  It may take a little longer for USA’s fleet to rival Japan’s but if USA uses those bombers effectively it evens out.


  • 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    thank you Zhukov44


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