Sub warfare out of whack?



  • @ShadowHAwk:

    @simon33:

    @Caesar:

    Another issue is the location of convoy zones that I don’t agree with. Like the famous SZ 125, why that specific location? The reality is that any location of a “port” should be a convoy zone. I think another issue is that submarines can’t sneak pass straits like they did in real life. Some of them got caught but most of them passed by, this is how Germany got U-boat packs into the med and how Italy sent some help with Wolf Packs attack US/UK shipping.

    Subs can get through Gibraltar in A&A. They can’t get through the Bosporus or the Suez. I think some did get through the Bosporus but most didn’t in WWI. Was it similar in WWII? I’m sure none could have gotten through the Panama Canal with all its locks. With the Suez, that has a depth of 23-24m (75-79ft). I don’t think subs could evade visual detection in such shallow water, even though a Type VII was only 9.6m high.

    I think you have a point on the Denmark Straight. Subs should probably be allowed through here. Depth is 191m!

    The area was also heavy netted and mined with some listening stations. Sure maby a lone sub might get through but most would be destroyed.

    Yeah, I get that however as said before, we have actual records of Axis subs being caught and destroyed however most of them got through and did some work against the enemy. So I think a rule should exist where you can pass submarines though these zones with a 2 or less dice roll of being automatically destroyed or denied if that seems too unfair. Something better than OOB where your faction locks out the enemy.



  • Ok, lets take a step back.

    So, should Subs be able to bypass Denmark and go into the Baltic? Who cares, really? Lets just say the house rule is subs can enter the Baltic Sea. Is the UK or USA going to invest in subs to enter the Baltic for the sole purpose of killing off the German fleet? There are no convoy routes in the Baltic so that is in essence the only purpose of them going in in the first place.

    Germany has a DEST with their fleet and a AB on W. Germany with planes. It is a suicide mission by the Allies to send in a sub or 2.

    In the big picture of the game, it is a total non factor.

    Same scenario with Italy. Lets say the house rule says subs can go through the Suez. What? UK is worried about a stack of 6 Italy Subs rampaging through the Suez? It is not even a point of discussion and thus a non factor.



  • @Caesar:

    I’ve always question that Italian sea zone too because I am pretty sure Italy wasn’t running supplies from the nations it took in the easy to Rome and I have starved Italy with US to the point it couldn’t produce.

    Italy is also in a precarious situation in that on USA 3-5 they send in some STR bombers on their factories and reduce them to rubble. Now Italy is getting convoyed into oblivion coupled with the fact they can never repair their IC’s. Allies can economically collapse Italy with very little effort.



  • @PainState:

    @Caesar:

    I’ve always question that Italian sea zone too because I am pretty sure Italy wasn’t running supplies from the nations it took in the easy to Rome and I have starved Italy with US to the point it couldn’t produce.

    Italy is also in a precarious situation in that on USA 3-5 then send in some STR bombers on their factories and reduce them to rubble. Now Italy is getting convoyed into oblivion coupled with the fact they can never repair their IC’s. Allies can economically collapse Italy with very little effort.

    Which is what I did against my buddy who played as the Axis. I send in a good fleet and destroyed the Italian navy and then sat in that SZ and just beat him out to the point he was unable to build anything for Italy and forced him to spend German troops to protect Rome.



  • @Caesar:

    @PainState:

    @Caesar:

    I’ve always question that Italian sea zone too because I am pretty sure Italy wasn’t running supplies from the nations it took in the easy to Rome and I have starved Italy with US to the point it couldn’t produce.

    Italy is also in a precarious situation in that on USA 3-5 then send in some STR bombers on their factories and reduce them to rubble. Now Italy is getting convoyed into oblivion coupled with the fact they can never repair their IC’s. Allies can economically collapse Italy with very little effort.

    Which is what I did against my buddy who played as the Axis. I send in a good fleet and destroyed the Italian navy and then sat in that SZ and just beat him out to the point he was unable to build anything for Italy and forced him to spend German troops to protect Rome.

    Couple that with the Middle Earth plan of attack and the USA floating bridge to Southern France and the Russian Island plans….Axis have no chance to ever win this game. We have reached the point now with all these plans that it is the Axis who need massive bids to even compete with the Allies.

    😄 😮


  • 2017 '16 '15

    @PainState:

    Couple that with the Middle Earth plan of attack and the USA floating bridge to Southern France and the Russian Island plans….Axis have no chance to ever win this game. We have reached the point now with all these plans that it is the Axis who need massive bids to even compete with the Allies.

    😄 😮

    heh heh. : )



  • @PainState:

    @Caesar:

    @PainState:

    @Caesar:

    I’ve always question that Italian sea zone too because I am pretty sure Italy wasn’t running supplies from the nations it took in the easy to Rome and I have starved Italy with US to the point it couldn’t produce.

    Italy is also in a precarious situation in that on USA 3-5 then send in some STR bombers on their factories and reduce them to rubble. Now Italy is getting convoyed into oblivion coupled with the fact they can never repair their IC’s. Allies can economically collapse Italy with very little effort.

    Which is what I did against my buddy who played as the Axis. I send in a good fleet and destroyed the Italian navy and then sat in that SZ and just beat him out to the point he was unable to build anything for Italy and forced him to spend German troops to protect Rome.

    Couple that with the Middle Earth plan of attack and the USA floating bridge to Southern France and the Russian Island plans….Axis have no chance to ever win this game. We have reached the point now with all these plans that it is the Axis who need massive bids to even compete with the Allies.

    😄 😮

    I agree with that and I have explained to people about G40 that the game is set up where the Axis and all the advantage in early games but will eventually lose to the allies due to GDP and numbers.



  • @PainState:

    Ok, lets take a step back.

    So, should Subs be able to bypass Denmark and go into the Baltic? Who cares, really? Lets just say the house rule is subs can enter the Baltic Sea. Is the UK or USA going to invest in subs to enter the Baltic for the sole purpose of killing off the German fleet? There are no convoy routes in the Baltic so that is in essence the only purpose of them going in in the first place.

    Germany has a DEST with their fleet and a AB on W. Germany with planes. It is a suicide mission by the Allies to send in a sub or 2.

    In the big picture of the game, it is a total non factor.

    Same scenario with Italy. Lets say the house rule says subs can go through the Suez. What? UK is worried about a stack of 6 Italy Subs rampaging through the Suez? It is not even a point of discussion and thus a non factor.

    Except the Suez and Panama are a moot point because those are canals that have locks which I agree doesn’t make sense however in the context of the Turkey, Denmark, and Gibraltar, submarines could in theory sneak pass these zones and historically speaking, did.



  • @Caesar:

    @PainState:

    Ok, lets take a step back.

    So, should Subs be able to bypass Denmark and go into the Baltic? Who cares, really? Lets just say the house rule is subs can enter the Baltic Sea. Is the UK or USA going to invest in subs to enter the Baltic for the sole purpose of killing off the German fleet? There are no convoy routes in the Baltic so that is in essence the only purpose of them going in in the first place.

    Germany has a DEST with their fleet and a AB on W. Germany with planes. It is a suicide mission by the Allies to send in a sub or 2.

    In the big picture of the game, it is a total non factor.

    Same scenario with Italy. Lets say the house rule says subs can go through the Suez. What? UK is worried about a stack of 6 Italy Subs rampaging through the Suez? It is not even a point of discussion and thus a non factor.

    Except the Suez and Panama are a moot point because those are canals that have locks which I agree doesn’t make sense however in the context of the Turkey, Denmark, and Gibraltar, submarines could in theory sneak pass these zones and historically speaking, did.

    Denmark strait was pretty heavy mined, there where nets and underwater microphones. So yes a lone sub might get through but not nearly viable enough to make it for the context of this game. Units are not just a single unit they are a group of said units. Scapa flow was also at risk from subs with its many outgoing channels and yes 1 sub managed to get in it does not mean that the whole base was crap.


  • 2019 2017 '16

    Axis have no chance? Play a league game G40.2 with no bid then. How do you plan to stop the fall of Moscow by G7? Calcutta probably earlier.



  • @simon33:

    Axis have no chance? Play a league game G40.2 with no bid then. How do you plan to stop the fall of Moscow by G7? Calcutta probably earlier.

    Man, that is so 2016.

    I just create a floating bridge, have the Russian Island plan in effect and go all in on middle earth.

    As long as Germany can not take London or Cairo and Japan cannot take Sydney or Hawaii… Allies are golden. Lets not overthink this game. At the end of the day the Allies only concern before, lets say G8, is to not let the Axis take Cairo,London,Sydney or Hawaii. If Russia does fall it just ramps up the stress on the Allies. The longer Russia holds on the less stress on the UK/USA.

    😄 8-)


  • 2019 2017 '16

    Floating bridge is from USA to Normandy/Sth France?

    What’s the Russian Island plan and how does it help if Moscow is down?



  • @ShadowHAwk:

    @Caesar:

    @PainState:

    Ok, lets take a step back.

    So, should Subs be able to bypass Denmark and go into the Baltic? Who cares, really? Lets just say the house rule is subs can enter the Baltic Sea. Is the UK or USA going to invest in subs to enter the Baltic for the sole purpose of killing off the German fleet? There are no convoy routes in the Baltic so that is in essence the only purpose of them going in in the first place.

    Germany has a DEST with their fleet and a AB on W. Germany with planes. It is a suicide mission by the Allies to send in a sub or 2.

    In the big picture of the game, it is a total non factor.

    Same scenario with Italy. Lets say the house rule says subs can go through the Suez. What? UK is worried about a stack of 6 Italy Subs rampaging through the Suez? It is not even a point of discussion and thus a non factor.

    Except the Suez and Panama are a moot point because those are canals that have locks which I agree doesn’t make sense however in the context of the Turkey, Denmark, and Gibraltar, submarines could in theory sneak pass these zones and historically speaking, did.

    Denmark strait was pretty heavy mined, there where nets and underwater microphones. So yes a lone sub might get through but not nearly viable enough to make it for the context of this game. Units are not just a single unit they are a group of said units. Scapa flow was also at risk from subs with its many outgoing channels and yes 1 sub managed to get in it does not mean that the whole base was crap.

    Well Allies going into that German area is foolish. Home Fleet just blockaded that region anyways however the others had enemy and neutral ships passing all the time.


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