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DKs Hybrid Axis and Allies Map_ATO SZs reshaping


  • 2017 2016

    I’m looking to improve actions and pace in ATO and eventually print a variant map of DK’s Hybrid.

    Starting from AA50 (same as Spring 1942.1) ATO SZs, I added 1 SZ named 6b.
    Three islands are put between 2 SZs: Greenland, Iceland and Azores (an added Island).
    This is also to contrast Pacific Ocean greater average distance between Islands compared to Atlantic Ocean.

    It moves every UK’s SZs, except SZ8, to be within 2 SZs from Baltic SZ5 (as in 1942.2).
    It keeps the shuck-shuck 2 SZs pace of US SZ10 toward UK SZ8 and to fly US Fighter toward UK in 4 moves.
    US now may also move Fighters from Eastern USA toward Greenland (3 Moves) or Iceland (4 Moves).
    That way, it increases access and movement by air from US toward Europe or to SBR from Azores or Greenland toward USA.

    SZ2 get also a Convoy Disruption feature against both UK and USSR to increase Subs attractiveness in this specific SZ to depict how U-boats wolfpacks were roaming into the North Atlantic Gap.

    What do you think of such SZs?

    Do you think it would improve the pace and action (compared to both AA50 and 1942.2) and the game?

    DKs Hybrid ATO SZs_1942 second ed style.png



  • I would like to see this for G40 however right off the bat, I can already see issues with neutrals. Ireland was never pro Allies, they made it clear they wanted to be neutral by telling both Germany and UK their conditions of engagement should one get the advantage over the other. UK invades Ireland, Ireland joins the Axis. Germany pulls Sea Lion, Ireland joins the Allies. Sweden was never pro anyone due to the fact they choose to ride trade with both sides and was threatened by invasion from both Germany and UK at some point. However the biggest issue I always had with G40 was making Iran pro Allies, that was the biggest BS neutral to date.


  • 2017 2016

    Thanks Caesar,
    both Ireland, Iran and Sweden will be true Neutral.

    IDK, how I will deal with Neutrals, but the more accurate, the better.

    Anything else about SZs or Islands ?

    I also provided a pic of 1942.2 ATO SZs, and another of AA50 ATO SZs board to see differences.

    AA1942_Second Edition_ATO SZs.jpg
    axis-allies-anniversary-3 ATO SZs.jpg


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    The roundels are way too large. .75 inch not more


  • 2017 2016

    IDK if it is an issue in the original file, I increased the zoom in on this picture.



  • Large roundels don’t bug me too much. In fact, I prefer it if you take the time to actually bring in colonies when it comes to neutrals. For example, making Portugal neutral and attacking their colonies or parents should logically drag the other into war. As far as Sea Zone go, I personally can’t say for this specific version and not to mention any if you do a G40 map.


  • 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer

    Wow not much for sea zones in these maps. Germany or Italy could bomb from Azores.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    The whole point is you cover up the roundel with the token if captured, it effectively covers the roundel with yours. If its too big , its harder to quickly tabulate the IPC count, plus the larger roundels are UGLY!


  • 2017 2016

    @SS:

    Wow not much for sea zones in these maps. Germany or Italy could bomb from Azores.

    That’s the idea. Germany could planned to use long range bombers from Azores to SBR East Coast.

    The Coveted Azores Gap

    Both the Axis and the Allies wanted to get the Azores first, and each had their own ideas on how to do it. Operation Alacrity was Churchill’s; Roosevelt had Task Force Gray and Operation Lifebelt, and Operation Felix/Projekt Amerika was Hitler’s. Each side probably knew of the other’s plans, and each had the same goal in mind: to occupy the strategically located Azores archipelago by fair means or foul, by diplomacy, intimidation, or outright armed invasion.

    Controlling the islands with their strategic position in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean meant for the Allies protecting the important convoy routes of the central Atlantic. Failing to control them left a giant “black hole” in the Azores Gap for convoys headed to the Mediterranean and the United Kingdom, a gauntlet with waiting U-boat wolfpacks, an unhappy shooting gallery of Allied troop and supply ships. If an invasion of Europe was to take place, the Azores Gap had to have air cover. Only an Allied airfield in the mid-Atlantic could provide that cover.

    The Azores, a group of nine volcanic islands belonging to Portugal and lying in the central Atlantic, cover an area of 910 square miles (2,355 square km), or slightly less than Rhode Island. They stretch over 373 miles (600 km) from Corvo in the northwest to Santa Maria in the southeast, with Santa Maria closest to Europe, about 930 miles (1,500 km) from Lisbon. Flores, the farthest and considered the westernmost point of Europe, is 1,100 miles (1,770 km) from Labrador and 2,240 miles (3,600 km) from the East Coast of the United States. Even before America’s entry into the war, President Roosevelt thought he could justify American intervention in the Azores by calling them easternmost North America and thus falling under the protection of the Monroe Doctrine.

    For Germany, the Azores represented a base for U-boat operations plus air bases needed for Projekt Amerika, a Luftwaffe bombing campaign of America’s East Coast cities. With a base for provisioning in the middle of the Atlantic, U-boats would not waste so many days and precious diesel fuel sailing out of and returning to their pens in France. Their time in action would become almost unlimited.

    http://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/wwii/covering-the-azores-gap-in-world-war-ii/

    Also, from Greenland, it is also possible to SBR USA.
    This way, it makes sense that USA decided to guard these territories to protect US interests in WW2.

    It also allows a way to simulate how Germany can attack and destroy civilian merchant ships and affect USA economy, even if it is using SBR as the main game mechanics.


  • 2017 2016

    @Imperious:

    The whole point is you cover up the roundel with the token if captured, it effectively covers the roundel with yours. If its too big , its harder to quickly tabulate the IPC count, plus the larger roundels are UGLY!

    I must admit I’m not that an artist. What is ugly? Simply being larger? Or the picture in itself without a given dimension?


  • 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer

    @Baron:

    @SS:

    Wow not much for sea zones in these maps. Germany or Italy could bomb from Azores.

    That’s the idea. Germany could planned to use long range bombers from Azores to SBR East Coast.

    The Coveted Azores Gap

    Both the Axis and the Allies wanted to get the Azores first, and each had their own ideas on how to do it. Operation Alacrity was Churchill’s; Roosevelt had Task Force Gray and Operation Lifebelt, and Operation Felix/Projekt Amerika was Hitler’s. Each side probably knew of the other’s plans, and each had the same goal in mind: to occupy the strategically located Azores archipelago by fair means or foul, by diplomacy, intimidation, or outright armed invasion.

    Controlling the islands with their strategic position in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean meant for the Allies protecting the important convoy routes of the central Atlantic. Failing to control them left a giant “black hole” in the Azores Gap for convoys headed to the Mediterranean and the United Kingdom, a gauntlet with waiting U-boat wolfpacks, an unhappy shooting gallery of Allied troop and supply ships. If an invasion of Europe was to take place, the Azores Gap had to have air cover. Only an Allied airfield in the mid-Atlantic could provide that cover.

    The Azores, a group of nine volcanic islands belonging to Portugal and lying in the central Atlantic, cover an area of 910 square miles (2,355 square km), or slightly less than Rhode Island. They stretch over 373 miles (600 km) from Corvo in the northwest to Santa Maria in the southeast, with Santa Maria closest to Europe, about 930 miles (1,500 km) from Lisbon. Flores, the farthest and considered the westernmost point of Europe, is 1,100 miles (1,770 km) from Labrador and 2,240 miles (3,600 km) from the East Coast of the United States. Even before America’s entry into the war, President Roosevelt thought he could justify American intervention in the Azores by calling them easternmost North America and thus falling under the protection of the Monroe Doctrine.

    For Germany, the Azores represented a base for U-boat operations plus air bases needed for Projekt Amerika, a Luftwaffe bombing campaign of America’s East Coast cities. With a base for provisioning in the middle of the Atlantic, U-boats would not waste so many days and precious diesel fuel sailing out of and returning to their pens in France. Their time in action would become almost unlimited.

    http://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/wwii/covering-the-azores-gap-in-world-war-ii/

    Also, from Greenland, it is also possible to SBR USA.
    This way, it makes sense that USA decided to guard these territories to protect US interests in WW2.

    It also allows a way to simulate how Germany can attack and destroy civilian merchant ships and affect USA economy, even if it is using SBR as the main game mechanics.

    I�m surprised that this wasn�t or isn�t more addressed in all global games. I know US in are games landed ground there because it couldn�t reach parts of Africa in a turn. But being said it may change the game a lot or little once it�s tested. I can see the US using early in game and axis later in game.


  • 2017 2016

    @SS:

    I’m surprised that this wasn’t or isn’t more addressed in all global games. I know US in are games landed ground there because it couldn’t reach parts of Africa in a turn. But being said it may change the game a lot or little once it’s tested. I can see the US using early in game and axis later in game.

    It is IL which talked first about these islands in G40 Redesign thread.

    I hope this can provide more opportunities of strategy for both Axis and US.

    To increase the possibility this can goes both ways, I put Azores between SZ11 and SZ12.
    US can either land units in Azores or Gibraltar while Axis can amphib. assault with a fleet being more useful by blocking Gibraltar access in SZ12, than just sitting oddly in SZ11 (if Azores were put inside SZ11 only) and being easily passed by, moving from SZ10 to SZ12 via SZ9 (Nova Scotia SZ).


  • 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer

    Yes  I remember the post from IL. Looking at my map I do have an airbase on Azores so my H. bombers M7 +1 can make it to US East Coast (8 spaces) and back.

    UK in game has a NA of Sub Hunters. Bombers M5 A4 against a sub only. Could be a sitting spot for UK if any Wolf Packs like to move South of Azores for escaping or convoy box attack without US UK spending more money on destroyers trying to chase down the subs. Subs get no return shot.


  • 2017 2016

    I will not directly put AB on this map. But I will probably use my G40 cardboards AB (and NB?).


  • 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer

    Has no Naval base. Just remembered. If  Japan gets there NA of Island Bases,  they don’t need to count the sea zone leaving and returning from an island. US has this NA but its used more in the pacific. Japan can bomb Washington with just Stg. Bombers from Azores too. Plus theres also a tech in game where all planes get a +1 move too.

    Thanks for bringing up Azores. Gives me some ideas now.


  • 2017 2016

    @SS:

    Has no Naval base. Just remembered. If  Japan gets there NA of Island Bases,  they don’t need to count the sea zone leaving and returning from an island. US has this NA but its used more in the pacific. Japan can bomb Washington with just Stg. Bombers from Azores too. Plus theres also a tech in game where all planes get a +1 move too.

    Thanks for bringing up Azores. Gives me some ideas now.

    I also saw that if an AB was put into Greenland on your Global map, you would get the same possibility of SBR Eastern USA as my Greenland in the map above.

    I’m happy that this give new ideas, too.


  • 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer

    @Baron:

    @SS:

    Has no Naval base. Just remembered. If  Japan gets there NA of Island Bases,  they don’t need to count the sea zone leaving and returning from an island. US has this NA but its used more in the pacific. Japan can bomb Washington with just Stg. Bombers from Azores too. Plus theres also a tech in game where all planes get a +1 move too.

    Thanks for bringing up Azores. Gives me some ideas now.

    I also saw that if an AB was put into Greenland on your Global map, you would get the same possibility of SBR Eastern USA as my Greenland in the map above.

    I’m happy that this give new ideas, too.

    True. I’ll keep it in mind.


  • 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer

    Also forgot Azores is a Strict Neutral. So any country would need to land ground there to control. No defending army. Only way Japan,  Germany or Italy from air would need the Tech Paratroopers. No body can attack from air unless they have Paratroopers Tech. This may change.

    Is your Azores on your map SN ?


  • 2017 2016

    Nope, but because it is a Spring 1942, it should be a pro-Allies Neutral (same as Portugal).

    It is only around mid-to late 1943 that Allies went there and built Airfield.

    There was this treaty which can also explained which side was Azores

    Their strategy was to call upon the Anglo-Portuguese treaty of 1373 for “mutual friendship and defense” signed by Edward III, King of England and France, and Don Fernando, King of Portugal, and Queen Eleanor to argue the case for an Allied base.

    On October 12, 1943, Churchill revealed to the House of Commons that he had called upon the Windsor Treaty of Eternal Alliance with Portugal to authorize an operation to protect the Azores. The treaty, said Churchill, was invoked with the approval of Salazar, and Operation Alacrity was beginning. Churchill relished every moment of the historic event, taking great pleasure in springing on a surprised Parliament a treaty that few even knew existed and talking of places of which none had ever heard.

    http://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/wwii/covering-the-azores-gap-in-world-war-ii/


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I must admit I’m not that an artist. What is ugly? Simply being larger? Or the picture in itself without a given dimension?

    based on the pictures im quite sure the roundels are much larger than .75 inch

    Also, the Azores were added because the game should have had them as a means for the axis to bomb the east coast, which incidentally was a German plan for the war latter.


  • 2016 2015 '14 Customizer

    @Imperious:

    I must admit I’m not that an artist. What is ugly? Simply being larger? Or the picture in itself without a given dimension?

    based on the pictures im quite sure the roundels are much larger than .75 inch

    Also, the Azores were added because the game should have had them as a means for the axis to bomb the east coast, which incidentally was a German plan for the war latter.

    The roundels are all the exact size of the game cardboard roundels - 3/4", except the capital roundels which I made bigger as a tribute to the original classic map.


  • 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer

    Heres some pics of another map I have with less sea zones. Its IL’s map.

    image1(5).png


  • 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer

    Just more info for your map design.

    image2(3).png


  • 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer

    Also just to let you know I made the Gibralter sea zone two zones where I drew the line at. Other wise its 1 whole sea zone where Gibralter is.


  • 2017 2016

    Thanks SS,
    too bad that China and USSR TTs names are hard to decrypt.
    But SZs are clear to see.


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