Japan in North America



  • Is it possible for Japan to gain a strong foothold in North America, and if they can, can they do it at a point where it matters?



  • If Japan makes a move on Alaska, the US has to respond. This can help the Germans immensely.



  • I have found that it is a matter of timing…

    A major strike by Japan takes US forces out of Europe the FOLLOWING turn (so if hit in J4, it weakens USA5 in Europe).  So, base your timing of your Alaska strike on German actions…  and hit it the round BEFORE Germany is about to make a major push.



  • I think the answer to the OP’s question is yes, and ncsc is on the money about timing.  Just keep in mind that the troops you’re sending against Alaska/WCanada are troops you’re NOT sending toward Russia.  I kinda prefer keeping pressure up in the drive toward Moscow myself.



  • I agree with Hoss.  Any forces you send to Alaska will be a waste of resources.

    Here is my response.  By this point in the game, it is assumed the U.S. has appropriate naval logistical capability leaving only land units to be purchased.  I would purchase my normal invasion loadout and build some on the west coast (enough to deal with the invasion).  Those troops can easily move to Eastern Canada after dispatching the Japanese forces.  The Japanese burn 2 turns of transports being out of position and cost of infantry going to the U.S.  The U.S. only loses a 1/2 turn of land builds (only 50% are ready for transport because the other 50% are constructed on the West Coast).

    Assuming you sent two transports to the U.S. you have lost 2 turns or 8 units hitting the Asian mainland.  Those eight units are the numerical equivalent of what Russia can purchase in the best of economic conditions (assuming tanks and/or artillery in combination with infantry).

    As Japan, I have only received a net loss from such a maneuver.  As the U.S., if I see Japan doing that move, I know the game is going my way.

    Try it a few times to get a feel for it.

    Octopus



  • Just played a game last night and I think I discovered a interesting Japan Strat (not my own, I read it somewhere).  By the time I was able to make any kind of Strike on NA, Russa had fallen, Germany had taken Africa and the Middle East, Japan cleaned out the Pacific, and I only needed one more VC for the win.  I was headed for L.A. but by that point, the allies had lost and so taking NA was more for the rare sight of the Japanese on American soil.  We called the game.

    My point is that by the time Japan was ready to invade the game for all practical purposes was over.  Do you find this to be the norm in most games?


  • 2007 AAR League

    To answer the last post by Triforce:

    • Yes by the time that Japan is ready to invade the US , the game is for all practical purposes.

    This has been my experience in all games I have ever played - both 2nd Ed & Revised. This even held true in our Newbie-games.



  • I think it has some merit to attack there.  You won’t ever take the US out (you will have won if it comes to that) but you can distract them quite effectively.

    Once in a great while I try something a little different.  If the US is going whole hog after Germany (like it does 99% of the time), and after you have taken all available points in the pacific (Australia, Hawai, New Zealand) you can take a good size amount of your fleet (about 1/2) and circle it around S. America and land in Brazil.  Build an IC there and play havoc with the allied shipping in the Atlantic (as well as taking away 3 points or more from the US).  At the same time use your remaing fleet to push into Alaska and beyond.  Being pulled in 3 different directions (Alaska, Brazil, the need to help their allies) is too much for them.

    This is impossible to do in a short game, but if you are in for the long haul I think it is quite beneficial.  Yes, it will take Troops out of Asia… but having your Jap navy sit in Tokyo harbor is just a waste of pieces.



  • I stand by a strategic strike against Alaska on the round before Germany makes their major push in Europe.  It DOES distract the US shuck, and gives Germany that LITTLE bit of extra push by having about 6 fewer Allied divisions to deal with at the critical time…



  • @Zooey72:

    I think it has some merit to attack there.  You won’t ever take the US out (you will have won if it comes to that) but you can distract them quite effectively.

    Once in a great while I try something a little different.  If the US is going whole hog after Germany (like it does 99% of the time), and after you have taken all available points in the pacific (Australia, Hawai, New Zealand) you can take a good size amount of your fleet (about 1/2) and circle it around S. America and land in Brazil.  Build an IC there and play havoc with the allied shipping in the Atlantic (as well as taking away 3 points or more from the US).  At the same time use your remaing fleet to push into Alaska and beyond.  Being pulled in 3 different directions (Alaska, Brazil, the need to help their allies) is too much for them.

    This is impossible to do in a short game, but if you are in for the long haul I think it is quite beneficial.  Yes, it will take Troops out of Asia… but having your Jap navy sit in Tokyo harbor is just a waste of pieces.

    Its funny that most of you say that US goes for Germany first, because in all the games I have played US goes after Japan first.  After cleaning out the Pacific they turn their attention to Europe.



  • Triforce… if that is the case, Russia falls to Germany around G5.



  • @ncscswitch:

    I stand by a strategic strike against Alaska on the round before Germany makes their major push in Europe.  It DOES distract the US shuck, and gives Germany that LITTLE bit of extra push by having about 6 fewer Allied divisions to deal with at the critical time…

    It depends on how the US is playing and how much you land in Alaska as far as a “one off distraction”.  If you land 2 troops than I can pretty much ignore it.  If you land 4 it will distract.  If you land 6 or more I really need to do something about  it.

    Also, I think Japan should make this move 2 turns before the big German push.  1 turn you can get eastern canada… whoppee.  I’ll take it back.  Even using your transports against the west coast is not that big of a deal.  I leave 1 inf, you take it, I take it back.  you got 10 IPC but I take it back and carry on with my German goals for a turn.  At that point you have moved your tans far away from Asia and they are useless for 2 more turns + the turns it took you to get them over there.  It will eventualy divert troops, but I will let you have some ground if the Soviets are hurting they are the priority.  In Alaska I prefer a sustained small push.  2 infantry a turn with a carrier back up to push into western Canada, or western US should the opp. present itself.  The US can fully commit and take out Alaska and leave a large garrison there to stop this thorn in their side, but that is a signifigant amount of troops, and than it’s “mission accomplished”.  Short of a large effort to secure Alaska the US will have to have this thorn in their side.  2 units a turn into Alaska can acomplish a lot, in the Pacific you have the mobility if the US goes whole hog after Germany.

    More so for the Germans, but for the Japs also you need to keep to one idea for victory.  Hit them where they are weakest.  Going heads up with the allies is not going to win you the game.  They make more $ than you.  In a war of attrition they will win every time.



  • Zooey, you do Alaska, and you do it with a full complement of all of your Japan trannies (say 8-10 units).

    This diverst ONE Asia landing for 1 round.  If you leave the forces in Alaska, the trannies go back the next round, and bridge forces to Bury.  Or, you can evac the forces from Alaska and land THOSE in Bury (or elsewhere, depending on opportunity…)

    The thing is, all you lose in ONE wave of land forces in Asia… a wave that is 4 turns from Russia.  While the trade is that you distract the wave in Western Can that will be heading for in the US’s NEXT move (the one the turn after Japan hits them).

    So, by a well timed strike on Alaska, you can impact the Russia battle 2 turns before those same troops could get there by normal means…



  • @ncscswitch:

    Triforce… if that is the case, Russia falls to Germany around G5.

    Not always, if done PERFECTLY (I don’t mean dice rolls, responding to buys from the Japs with normal dice rolls).  But you are right for the most part.  I have played the US going into the pacific and was able to negate the Japs in Asia by threatening in the right spots.  Taking away the trans is a big deal, not to mention each one of their ICs is along the coast.  The japs constantly move troops forward to fight the Russians.  Losing the islands and than having to protect your vital ICs from the US takes the Japs out of the war.

    The one thing the US can not do is sit turn by turn building up a Navy to demolish the japs.  You will lose that battle every time.  You need to be agressive and keep out of harms way of the main Jap fleet.  Take their $ in the islands, distract their AF by having to protect things that are too strung out to protect.  Don’t allow a heads up fight with their fleet until the end.

    The key is to keep your fleet(s) (because of reinforcements) 3 sqares away from the main Jap fleet.  They can’t move out in force to destroy you because they need their air power in Asia.  Than just gobble away at Japan until you have the force to destroy the Jap fleet when you consolidate.



  • @Zooey72:

    The key is to keep your fleet(s) (because of reinforcements) 3 sqares away from the main Jap fleet.  They can’t move out in force to destroy you because they need their air power in Asia.  Than just gobble away at Japan until you have the force to destroy the Jap fleet when you consolidate.

    Staying 3 squares from Japan’s main fleet leaves you these options…
    Turn 1… move to SZ44
    Turn 2… move to SZ48
    Turn 3:  Attack either New Guinea (1 IPC) or East Indies (4 IPC)
    Turn 4:  Attack the other one.

    For everything else, you WILL be in range of both the Japan Fleet, and their bomber.  And to move THAT far in the alotted time, you will have at most… 1 AC, 2 FIG, 1 BB, 1 SUB, 1 TRN 2/ 2 INF on board.

    Not much for if Japan sends ANYTHING your way…



  • @ncscswitch:

    Zooey, you do Alaska, and you do it with a full complement of all of your Japan trannies (say 8-10 units).

    This diverst ONE Asia landing for 1 round.  If you leave the forces in Alaska, the trannies go back the next round, and bridge forces to Bury.  Or, you can evac the forces from Alaska and land THOSE in Bury (or elsewhere, depending on opportunity…)

    The thing is, all you lose in ONE wave of land forces in Asia… a wave that is 4 turns from Russia.  While the trade is that you distract the wave in Western Can that will be heading for in the US’s NEXT move (the one the turn after Japan hits them).

    So, by a well timed strike on Alaska, you can impact the Russia battle 2 turns before those same troops could get there by normal means…

    Why would I pull back if you have spent your wad in that one landing?  Fine, you have a large force in the western Hemisphere.  It is a one shot deal.  Whatever you take, I will take it back.  You have distracted me, but not on the turn you would have wanted.  I will concede western for a turn to stop the German offensive.

    It is not a bad idea, if you can lure the US into commiting more than they should for something they can easily fix later.  But the key to your plan is IF you can distract the US.  I am guessing in this scenerio the Germans either do it, or they don’t.  The whole game is centered on that, so I will commit my resourses against the Germans, and fix the probs the invasion caused later.  It is an end game kind of move (who cares what happens to infantry 3 or 4 turns away from the fight in asia), but the end game will not take place in Alaska.  It will be somewhere in eurupe.



  • @ncscswitch:

    @Zooey72:

    The key is to keep your fleet(s) (because of reinforcements) 3 sqares away from the main Jap fleet.  They can’t move out in force to destroy you because they need their air power in Asia.  Than just gobble away at Japan until you have the force to destroy the Jap fleet when you consolidate.

    Staying 3 squares from Japan’s main fleet leaves you these options…
    Turn 1… move to SZ44
    Turn 2… move to SZ48
    Turn 3:  Attack either New Guinea (1 IPC) or East Indies (4 IPC)
    Turn 4:  Attack the other one.

    For everything else, you WILL be in range of both the Japan Fleet, and their bomber.  And to move THAT far in the alotted time, you will have at most… 1 AC, 2 FIG, 1 BB, 1 SUB, 1 TRN 2/ 2 INF on board.

    Not much for if Japan sends ANYTHING your way…

    I agree with you for the most part, but the explanation would take too long and not really the question of this thread.  So I will take it up at a later time.

    The quick explanation is that the first turn for the US is gone, they don’t move.  You can’t, the Japs have the Hawian sea space.  But you build defensively, ACs and fighters.  The Jap navy will pull back as it normaly does because they need their AF in Asia (don’t forget it takes a while for the Japs to overcome existing forces in Asia).

    For the japs to fully equip their carriers against the US would take the Jap AF out of the Asian campaign.  They can’t afford that.  Early in the game a small allied push in Asia would wield great results if the Japs commited thier AF to the Pacific.

    I think you’re right, the US going against Japan whole hog is not a good idea.  I am a “traditional” player as far as that goes.  But if played the right way it can win you the game.  It is risky, I won’t argue that.  But isn’t that what makes the game fun?  Doesn’t it get boring as hell to have the traditional game of “does Russia fall to the japs before Germany falls to the allies”?  I have seen the strategy work, it just takes more skill to pull it off.


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