An interesting comparison for sure! Thanks for sharing.
Plans for preemtive attack on Germany 1941…
Curtmungus last edited by
Who is preventing and who is conquering?
Does Stalin had heard about 1940-41 Germany’s prep to Barbarossa?
Or just a general invasion of Eastern Europe feeling that they need to do it to spread communism and Germany will oppose great resistance ?
This plan was based on the Larry-Marx formula ( as everything in life) to invade Germany early 1941.
As you can see each soviet thrust had AA capabilities and could take capitals, etc…
Not in historical forum, you are spreading it like a virus.
Please, use some gloves and a mask to not contaminate every forums.
its kinda like the vaccine for each forum, I’m like Kaiser only better
The planning stages of Larry-Marx can trace their roots to 1988, by the same planning committee that serves today…
Zooey72 last edited by
From what I have read about it Stalin had no intention of honoring the pact. He figured Germany would get bogged down in a war against France and England, and than he would attack/make a land grab. When the battle of France lasted 6 weeks and saw the German military mostly intact he abandoned ideas of ‘poking the bear’. He had been eyeing Romania and backed off when it came under German protection.
The thing that gets lost in H.S. history classes is how horrible Stalin (and communism) was. There was not much of a difference in Nazi thinking and Soviet thinking. The main part was the idea of a ‘master race’. But Stalin had Gulags in the same way the Nazis had concentration camps (and Stalin killed more in his Gulags than the Nazis did), and both were authoritarian governments. But other than racism, the Soviets were just as bad if not worse. The Nazis may kill you if you are a Jew or a Homosexual, Stalin was an equal opp. murderer who just killed everyone.
I can not remember his name, but there was an admiral in the Royal Navy who stated it best when he found out that Germany and the U.S.S.R. were at war. “It is a pity they both can’t lose”.
Stalin did have plans for talking over Western Europe, but initially he wanted Hitler stuck in a long war of attrition with the allies hoping to bleed both sides white with Stalin breaking the lease and killing off the players. The rapid defeat of France put Russia into panic mode to buy time with Hitler so that Russia could rebuild, often sending more supplies to Germany than agreed.
Stalin never wanted to be at war with Hitler anyways. Yes he wanted to spread Communism and eventually culturally annex Europe rather than taking it by military force. Unlike what most people said, Japan was a thorn in his side and he knew he would have to go to war with them at some point in time. He didn’t like the fact that they were able to illegally steal coal up until 1922 during the Civil War. Most of you guys are right about his views on France when they fell however the reasoning is wrong. He wanted the Wehrmacht to be in the same situation as in WWI however he didn’t want to see Germany lose, he wanted them to get to the point where they would request USSR to enter as an Axis power and then send the Red Army to help invade. At this time, USSR wasn’t exactly on good terms with anybody but Germany ironically. UK and France almost went to war against USSR due to Finland. However, Germany and Italy taking France out in two months was the gun shot to Stalin’s idea of peace with Germany. Because Germany only had two options at that point, either go north into UK or go east.
Actually these are the plans for a pre-emptive pre-emptive attack, drawn up when Stalin learned that Hitler had found out about the original one and ordered a pre-emptive German attack, hence the need for a pre-pre-emptive invasion to forestall the German pre-emptive move.
It would have been devastating for Germany the first few month and i keep wondering if the US would have interfered.
Maybe to late??!
Well the US did send in a military force to help the White Russian Army that history managed to forget about so I am sure that US would help Germany if it came down to it.
I don’t think FDR would ever have “helped” Hitler.
An interesting question is what would he have done if the UK/France had been at war with Germany AND USSR, as very nearly happened.
Before the cold war America had a blind spot where the Soviet dictatorship was concerned; “let the Russians choose their own form of government”; but had nothing good to say about fascism. Because of anti-Semitism? (Not that Stalin wasn’t anti-Semitic…)
I would agree but I am reminded that the US did send a military force into Russia to help the White Russian Army. In the early days of Nazi Germany, Hitler was actually well liked by the west so it isn’t insane to say that US could of helped Germany if Germany needed it. I mean the US did sell weapons to Germany at one point that ironically got used against the US during WWI.
I mean the US did sell weapons to Germany at one point that ironically got used against the US during WWI.
There’s a mildly amusing scene (from today’s perspective; at the time, it would probably have been viewed as angrily sarcastic) in the WWII movie Destination Tokyo, in which Cary Grant plays the skipper of a US submarine. Grant and a crewman have just defused a bomb (fortunately a dud, owing to faulty firing pin) that was dropped on the sub by a Japanese plane and that lodged between the outer hull and the pressure hull. They return inside the sub, where Grant shows the removed fuse to his crew and says, “It’s got ‘Made in USA’ stamped on it.”
On a related trivia note: the A&A standard Japanese transport ship sculpt, the Hakusan Maru, is based on a ship that was originally American. It was constructed by the Federal Shipbuilding Company of Kearny, New Jersey, for the US Navy during WWI. It served from late 1918 to mid-1919, then was put in reserve until 1937, when it was sold to the British. The British chartered it to the Japanese, who seized it and renamed it when WWII broke out in the Pacific. In a further irony, it was torpedoed and sunk by a US submarine, just two months before Japan surrendered.
Oh yeah, I bet you can find tons of Axis equipment with Allied origins. I remember reading a book talking about Sea Lion and the Germans put together what very little landing craft they had and it turned out these craft in origin were all US and British that was sold prior to WWI.