Rule question : Creation of Vichy France



  • Hello

    I had my 1st play thru (we ended at 1940, cause of time issues)

    I have a question about the creation of vichy france… in the rules it state that it will be created “Immediately after French surrender the german player may opt to create a new neutral country called Vichy France. British unit absence from Marseilles is a prerequisite…”

    Does that really mean that allies can block the creation of vichy and double their fleet by simply placing a single infantry in marseilles ?

    Also in in the same rule section it is stated

    “… If vichy france isent or cant be created at this time…”

    in the first section i read it as there is only ONE opertunity to created vichy… But in the second line it “airs” the oppertunity to created Vichy after you take marseil with that pesky british unit there ?


  • 2017

    @MrHansy:

    Hello

    I had my 1st play thru (we ended at 1940, cause of time issues)

    I have a question about the creation of vichy france… in the rules it state that it will be created “Immediately after French surrender the german player may opt to create a new neutral country called Vichy France. British unit absence from Marseilles is a prerequisite…”

    Does that really mean that allies can block the creation of vichy and double their fleet by simply placing a single infantry in marseilles ?
    Yes only if the German and Italian players allow it. There are 2 ways to make the French surrender:

    1. Attack and occupy Paris directly, when Paris is lost French Surrender.
    2. Paris is not attacked but rather it is surrounded. Every french land zone that touches Paris is Axis controlled, causing the French to surrender without a fight in Paris.
      Axis Controls what order it attacks, so If there are British units in Marseilles and Germany and Italy both allow British to stay there and attack Paris instead. They have decided themselves not to allow Vichy to happen. Germany can surround Paris partially if it cant completely do this, then Italy can finish the job in Marseilles. Vichy is created when Paris falls it doesn’t need to be Germany’s turn.
      Usually Germany uses its double combat and noncombat turn to completely surround Paris and avoid a counter attack to break the siege. in our games anyway.
       
      Also in in the same rule section it is stated

    “… If vichy france isent or cant be created at this time…”
    “If Vichy France isn’t or can’t be created at this time then all French colonies and forces become Free French”
    There is only ONE chance to create Vichy. If Germany decides not to by simple decision or by leaving the British in Marseilles it will need to wait for the next game to do it again.
    in the first section i read it as there is only ONE opertunity to created vichy…. But in the second line it “airs” the oppertunity to created Vichy after you take marseil with that pesky british unit there ?


  • 2017

    MrHansy, welcome to the Forum!
    Didn’t want to clutter your answer so its easier to show your group if you were to print it.
    The writer of the rules focused too much on creating the theatrical feel of international diplomacy. Resulting in rules that read like a political speaker, full of flowery and wordy text. Its not in plain language so we have also had a few odd questions and strong disagreements on the rules.

    Hope this helps, feel free to ask for more details. Rank



  • @MrHansy:

    Hello

    I had my 1st play thru (we ended at 1940, cause of time issues)

    I have a question about the creation of vichy france… in the rules it state that it will be created “Immediately after French surrender the german player may opt to create a new neutral country called Vichy France. British unit absence from Marseilles is a prerequisite…”

    Does that really mean that allies can block the creation of vichy and double their fleet by simply placing a single infantry in marseilles ?

    Also in in the same rule section it is stated

    “… If vichy france isent or cant be created at this time…”

    in the first section i read it as there is only ONE opertunity to created vichy… But in the second line it “airs” the oppertunity to created Vichy after you take marseil with that pesky british unit there ?

    I am  aware that you already got your answer, but in my opinion, getting all the free French to turn Vichi is a rare chance anyways, so I just say screw it and don’t bother trying to turn any of it Vichi, because then that’s more that you have to worry about. Sure, they fight for Germany, but they can’t move or do anything, so in my mind’s eye, there’s no point. I didn’t turn them Vichi as Germany when I played, and I wouldn’t worry about it. The only struggle you really have to deal with then, is the fleet in the Med. It gets hard, but Germany just has to get down there and help the Italians out, and it’ll be fine.



  • @Royal:

    @MrHansy:

    Hello

    I had my 1st play thru (we ended at 1940, cause of time issues)

    I have a question about the creation of vichy france… in the rules it state that it will be created “Immediately after French surrender the german player may opt to create a new neutral country called Vichy France. British unit absence from Marseilles is a prerequisite…”

    Does that really mean that allies can block the creation of vichy and double their fleet by simply placing a single infantry in marseilles ?

    Also in in the same rule section it is stated

    “… If vichy france isent or cant be created at this time…”

    in the first section i read it as there is only ONE opertunity to created vichy… But in the second line it “airs” the oppertunity to created Vichy after you take marseil with that pesky british unit there ?

    I am  aware that you already got your answer, but in my opinion, getting all the free French to turn Vichi is a rare chance anyways, so I just say screw it and don’t bother trying to turn any of it Vichi, because then that’s more that you have to worry about. Sure, they fight for Germany, but they can’t move or do anything, so in my mind’s eye, there’s no point. I didn’t turn them Vichi as Germany when I played, and I wouldn’t worry about it. The only struggle you really have to deal with then, is the fleet in the Med. It gets hard, but Germany just has to get down there and help the Italians out, and it’ll be fine.

    Dunno Man,
    Personally I see Vichy Marseilles as one additional territory Germany doesn’t have to protect, and as a bonus it gets the income anyway. I’ve never seen any Allied landings on Vichy Marseilles, and the added potential Vichy fleet is nice to have to protect Marseilles a little. Bonus points if Vichy gets Morocco, that way if the Allies try to do Operation Torch, they first have to be at war with Vichy, which means a few troops plus ships at no additional cost or expense to Germany.



  • In my game, the German Player wishes he had not created Vichy. His rolls were…classically terrible. Only Madagascar went Vichy, the rest stayed Free French. To top that off, when rolling for the Navy his Dice reversed, and Vichy and Germany each got a Sub, all French Destroyers sank, and the rest of the Fleet went Allied!


Log in to reply
 

Suggested Topics

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 5
  • 6
  • 6
  • 2
  • 5
I Will Never Grow Up Games

44
Online

13.4k
Users

33.8k
Topics

1.3m
Posts