Mid-game German blitzing Russian south

larrymarx

Essentially he shoves everything everywhere. I’ve seen other people do it to but not to the extent he does. He even uses planes to kill lone infantry and other ground right away. Doesn’t care about his pilots. It overwhelms Japan which is the weaker link compared to Germany. In my games with him, Japan cannot conduct an “assault in the Pacific.” It is very hard to beat him (and he takes no bid). At best I’m able to pick just one target; but it’s not enough to ever get Japan to the point it could win the game.

I’ve been mimicking his strategy and it’s starting to pay off. Lately in general, bids are going to China and Russia for use in allied Kill Japan First plans (or without a bid like my nemesis). I think knocking Japan out first is easier for the allies. The US gets Japan to the point that UK Pac / ANZAC / China are good on their own. Then the US switches to building mostly for landings. When I first started learning to play allies, I tried going for Germany first. That’s not a good plan because then Japan can blow up fast because there is no challenge to controlling the islands which fuels it’s drive inland.

As with your first post, I fully agree with this analysis. I’ve been testing Allied strategy and I’m developing an opening that sounds exactly like what your nemesis is doing. I still don’t think it’s enough to beat the Germans in time (see my plan above), but I hope I’m wrong and the Allies end up having an equal chance to win.

@Ichabod:

I’m not that good at this game so my point of view only works for me.

That’s a valid stance but my opinion is that we should work together to determine objectively what the best strategies to pursue are.

hcp

Thank you for all your replies! Attached are the rough replication of the game play by the end of the sixth turn (perhaps I forgot some details, and I did not put down facilities in the map).

On the Europe map:

We see the Bryansk and Moscow stacks. Russian does not have the odds to counterattack Bryansk even when Germany splits >10 tanks south. Thanks to the NOs in Russian south, G6 get a handsome income of >70.
The German bombers are so threatening. It can threaten Russia inf. build, allowing Germany mobile units to blitzing Russian south, hold the UK planes not going to assist India retake, threatening seazone 93.
UK has Persia-Iraq factories … but Egypt is about to fall to Italians with plane support.
The Eastern Persian stack are used to counterattack India.

On the Pacific map:

Japan gets India in J5. Japan will conquer Asia in the upcoming one or two turns, to solidify its economic position, and build boats and land units for sail.

PS:

The Axis’s strategies are originally Dark Skyies (Germany), but the US floating bridge (GHG’s strategy) prevents Germany further build bombers. For Japan it is India crunch, then securing Asian income, then go for the last VC.
The Allies’ strategies are (Russian) Moscow R6 stack, (UK) Persian-Iraq factory, (US) floating bridge. But since Moscow dominates, so UK does not get much land units in middle east.

Larry, wish that you can find some optimal equilibrium strategies for Axis and Allies. Thank you.

turn6 end europe.jpg
turn6 end pacific.jpg

GeneralHandGrenade

I’m not sure if this could help because I can’t see all of the exact numbers there in the photo, but you could take the transports in sz 91 and the fleet in Southern France (along with the troops there), and land on Rome. It would break the bridge but you could always purchase more transports on the same turn. That might have surprised your opponent and taken Italy out of the game. Not sure if it was too late for that but you could get a couple of extra factories in Italy and then move your fleet either to the north Atlantic or the Pacific. Then you wouldn’t need the extra transports after all. My sense is that you’re too late though.

Caesar-Seriona

What a strange setup in Europe. France is back with US support, Italy is basically conquered however Germany flanks are protected by Italy with a stalemate with Italy in Africa.

Caesar-Seriona

Also, this is one the weakest naval presents by both Japan and US in Pacific but Japan controls India so why not have Japan smash UK in Middle East?

hcp

@GeneralHandGrenade:

I’m not sure if this could help because I can’t see all of the exact numbers there in the photo, but you could take the transports in sz 91 and the fleet in Southern France (along with the troops there), and land on Rome. It would break the bridge but you could always purchase more transports on the same turn. That might have surprised your opponent and taken Italy out of the game. Not sure if it was too late for that but you could get a couple of extra factories in Italy and then move your fleet either to the north Atlantic or the Pacific. Then you wouldn’t need the extra transports after all. My sense is that you’re too late though.

Thanks GHG. In our game European allies always had an issue on whether to break the bridge to conquer Rome - which means less money on Pacific.
Actually on the same vein, Germany also faced a tough choice on whether to use its bombers to break the bridge - the loss of Germany planes means Russia can build up more counterattack units, but the four American transports are attractive.

@Caesar:

Also, this is one the weakest naval presents by both Japan and US in Pacific but Japan controls India so why not have Japan smash UK in Middle East?

Thanks Caesar Seriona. That’s a good idea. In our game Japan stopped advancing into the Middle East because it preserved those transports and go back to Japan to reload land units. But it seems Japan smashing Middle East would further interrupt Allies defense/counterattack.
To prevent this, shall we pull back some UK/France destroyers to seazones 78-79 as blockers?

Caesar-Seriona

I don’t think anything would come of the naval blockage. Japan is in great position to link their forces with Germany and Japan is already giving the reach around in USSR. Also, who ever is playing China needs to combine those stacks/

Zhukov44

@hcp:

Hello all. In my previous game,
Germany originally targeted a G6 Moscow attack, and in G5 stack with Bryansk with 33 inf, 12 art, 3AAA, 11 mech, 30 tanks (with 5 fig, 5 tact, 8 bombers in Leningrad/Berlin)

When Germany has such a large mech/tank stack (eg 30+, in this case 40+) they are more or less free to drive wherever they want on the map. What Allies need to bear in mind is this mechanized force can only go 1 (or 2, if they split up) ways. So Allies should adapt to what Axis does. This mechanized force cannot be everywhere at once, at where it is not, the Allies need to go on the offensive.

Can UK defend the Middle East? Some UK opponents have succeeded in dissuading me from going south by building 2-3 factories in Persia/Iraq/Egypt and stacking lots of units and fighters there (usually via a defensive stack in NWE Persia). But I question the overall efficacy of this strategy. Axis can press UK by simultaneously advancing on India and NWE Persia and forcing UK to abandon one of the other. Or they can ignore the UK stack in the Middle East and focus on subjugating the rest of Eurasia (Siberia and China) while keeping their main army sitting in Cauc, which keeps the UK and Russian armies divided and unable to reinforce each other, while Germany continues to build up.

It’s important to try to hold on to Egypt with a combined defensive force if you can, but when the mechanized force is that big, it may not be feasible. If the German armored force is forced to run down to Egypt, then they probably won’t muster another major attack on Moscow until G10 at the earliest (usually later, like G12 or G13). Allies have to hope that they can break down Japan and have some kind of offensive in the Atlantic going by that time.

Caesar-Seriona

Except in this set up as the board stands, UK is in a very terrible position in Middle East because if all three Axis just goes right into Persia, they will not stand and either let them get destroyed or pull out plus Italy is still in excellent position against Egypt which makes it even more worse as they just can’t really pull out and then engage the west.

hcp

@Zhukov44:

When Germany has such a large mech/tank stack (eg 30+, in this case 40+) they are more or less free to drive wherever they want on the map. What Allies need to bear in mind is this mechanized force can only go 1 (or 2, if they split up) ways. So Allies should adapt to what Axis does. This mechanized force cannot be everywhere at once, at where it is not, the Allies need to go on the offensive.

Thanks Caesar Seriona and Zhukov.
Given my board situation. In case Germany and Japan go for Egypt or Middle East, perhaps the US player can transport troops and land in Egypt/Middle East to provide additional defensive forces. Anyway I will test it in my next game.

The thing that the Allies worry most is the German mobile stacks going to Calcutta from turn 6 onward, and help defend that VC, so that Japan can focus all naval/bomber build for the last VC. Do allies have any counter-strategy for it? I am afraid that the Moscow stack is too slow to exert timely offense pressure on the Pacific side of the map.

taamvan

Well, in theory, if he has to either take the whole German Mega-stack south, or has to divert enough of it away such that he cannot continue to gain odds against Moscow, then Russia “won”, because Germany’s odds decline turn after turn, rather than increasing.

Of course Cow with 78 Axis wins would probably tell you that Moscow alone still loses. That’s because a power with no money and damaged factories can never climb the “odds curve”, Russian power increase drops to zero, while German units continue to arrive.

Caesar-Seriona

The Med is controlled by the USN with no real threat so the US can take its units in France and dump them to support UK.

Mid-game German blitzing Russian south

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