One simple/single adjustment that could balance OOB game.


  • If Germany has to be Italy’s can opener Sea lion may be done with ?

    Play testing will only tell.


  • I always thought it was strange that Mongolia has no money value which makes no sense to me. I think if Mongolia gets dragged into the war, having their military and money join USSR could be interesting.

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Guys - Italy still goes before Germany, so there is no hange there.

    The only difference is Russia can respond to Italian attacks. before Germany goes.


  • @Gargantua

    Well, there is a difference in the dynamic now between Germany/Italy.

    Under the current turn order…Germany/Russia/Italy. The dynamic is the relationship between Russia’s response to Germany and then Italy can react off of Russia. They (Italy) can perform a very effective response attack based on Russian actions which will (can open) for Germany at the top of the next turn.

    IF we change it to

    Russia/Germany/Italy…Then Germany/Italy lose the ability to tag team Russia based on what Russia does on that specific turn. The dynamic now is can Germany create a situation tactically (can open) for Italy to exploit and force a Russian reaction move (at the top of the next turn) to Italy so that Germany can take advantage on their following turn based on Russia’s turn.  It is a subtle change, which is why your idea is a good one BUT it is a change tactically on how you approach the invasion and eventual conquest of Russia.

    I think in the end that is why it is such a good idea. It only really changes the dynamic on the Russian front, some could say it gives a slight edge to Russia on their defense coupled with it does not change anything else going on in the game.

    For our group I like the idea because now the two main Axis powers move at the same time which saves time. We have talked in our group on how to group up the Allies in such a way that a Allied Eruope power and a Pacific Allied power are moving at the same time to once again save time. The only hang up is when rare situations arise when turn order is important if there will be interaction between the two maps, albeit, they show up later in the game.

  • '19 '17 '16

    Not to mention the effective 37IPC bid to the USSR.


  • @simon33:

    Not to mention the effective 37IPC bid to the USSR.

    I like the idea but this seems the main problem. Perhaps let USSR only start without IPC or with a reduced amount (=like a bid).


  • @Gargantua:

    Switch the Russian and German turn order.  Russia goes first, Germany follows.

    NO BIDS
    NO BS
    NO NEW RULES TO REMEMBER
    NO CHANGES
    Just 1 slight adjustment that saves time and improves balance.

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    @dreifeino:

    @simon33:

    Not to mention the effective 37IPC bid to the USSR.

    I like the idea but this seems the main problem. Perhaps let USSR only start without IPC or with a reduced amount (=like a bid).

    What can a neutral Russia purchase turn 1 to mess with the German first turn strategies?

  • '19 '17 '16

    I think another 12 infantry in a final assault on Moscow is pretty significant.


  • My concern was not related to turn 1 or 2 but to later German turn:
    9 additional Art for a Russian counterattack may cause a problem for Germany advancing to Belarus or Western Ukraine or one turn later to Bryansk, because Italy cannot take this area first (RU takes it back before the German turn) and therefore G cannot land their air on top of it’s army.
    12 additional Inf may delay a G 6 attack on Russia (Simon33 was faster while I typed this post).

    My concern was based on a game otherwise played without bid or only with a small bid (for example: balanced mod;  our group with other houesrules).
    If you play OOB-rules with a bid around 30 IPC, then Gargantua’s idea is very fine (I already understood that he only wants to make one simple adjustment), the inherent bid goes to Russia and does not destroy the game in the MED (as usual IMO).
    I will have to try it to see more effects.

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