POLL - G40 Your favorite turn for Japan to declare war and attack

  • '16 '15 '10

    @seancb:

    I’m a bit confused on the mechanics of your setup Zhukov. Can you elaborate a bit more as I would like to build on your idea.

    As far as J1/G3 strategy goes…the goal (for Axis) is to pressure Moscow.  Axis only goes Sea Lion if UK leaves London wide open.  On G1 and G2, Germany focuses on destroying the British fleet and making sure the Med is clear.  Axis declares war on the Soviets on I2.  A good supply of Italian mech for can openers is critical, so typically Italy buys mech for the first few turns.

    A key aspect of the strategy is that Germany should be in position to attack Moscow on G6 (so heavy investments in mech/tank on g2/g3, then either bombers or more mech/tanks on g4/g5 depending on circumstances), and AT THE SAME TIME Japan gets in position to either attack the main Chinese army or India itself on J6.  A pro Allies can defend either Moscow or China/India, but they can’t defend both positions at once, so one of them will collapse on turn 6.  The only way to stop this as Allies, imho, is a Yunnan stack which is very hard to pull off without a huge bid.  And the Yunnan stack still won’t save India which can fall as early as J4 with a J1 declaration.

    The Japan and Germany playbook threads that Cow posted back in the day offer more details on the relevant openings. For my preferred interpretation, here’s a couple examples.

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=37677.0
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=36835.0

  • '21 '20 '18 '17

    J2:  Move everything off SZ 36.  Build a Naval Base there (or an air base, or both eventually).  You have 2 transports and 1.5 grand fleets, and a massive airforce ready to go anywhere.  Stack dat.  You only have 3 transports and a ton of stuff you’ll want to grab, but you’ll probably need to avoid those distractions and stick together to avoid getting picked off and keep the ground units alive and together.

    Build 2 TTs with Japan, besides that you won’t need a ton of extra stuff to take phillipines, but you have so much air support it’s all pretty easy.

    UK 2 counter;  move your DD to SZ 36, they cannot load T-ports. 
    Japan counter to the counter;  leave your 6 guys on your transports during your turn.
    UK 2nd counter; move your DD to SZ 37, this prevents them from passing you during the combat move and buys you 1 more turn.
    Japan second counter;  pass that DD at peace, sitting with the UK navy in SZ 39, but this sort of wastes a turn…

    J3;  Take Ceylon, if they don’t block you.  Otherwise, J4.  Unsinkable unlimited aircraft carrier.
    J4: Take India, flying from Kwangsi and landing on Ceylon.  If they blocked you, J5, but if they are smart, by that point, it’ll be an odds battle with tons of opposition…

  • '21 '18 '16

    Thank you for the clairification Zhukov. I did look at your game file.
    I’m still not sure if a J1 would work in our group. We’ve really fine tuned the Allies to the point that no bid is needed. maybe we can play a game. I prefer a networked live game. Play a bit at a time save and come back later. I’m in Texas (Central time zone). PM me and we can set it up. I’d like to see you try this out.

    Sean…

  • '17

    @taamvan:

    UK 2 counter;�  move your DD to SZ 36, they cannot load T-ports.�  �
    Japan counter to the counter;�  leave your 6 guys on your transports during your turn.
    UK 2nd counter; move your DD to SZ 37, this prevents them from passing you during the combat move and buys you 1 more turn.
    Japan second counter;�  pass that DD at peace, sitting with the UK navy in SZ 39, but this sort of wastes a turn…

    This is an excellent counter by the UK to place a destroyer there and then ANZAC declares war and gets to collect some good NO money. I almost fin it unethical, but in this game, the allies need every little trick in the beginning. If of course ANZAC didn’t declare war than Japan could still load transports the turn they declare war.

  • '21 '20 '18 '17

    The fact that you can take a risk (leaving them on the transports) that avoids the gamey block makes it work.  You can also take the risk of blocking or taking over a key territory with just 1 infantry left, but my buddy constantly can opens these sites with strat bomber sacrifice flyovers.  Good games have multiple tricks and twists and choices and also rich responses to them

  • '21 '18 '16

    I like the mechanics of this but how do you get your fleet back in position for the jolly green giant that is the US. If they stack Hawaii and load up every transport they can you can kiss Korea good bye as well as Iwo and Carolines take your pick. In addition the Russians just move in to back it up. I would love to see this move in person as it sounds kinda dicey but could work. I like it.

  • TripleA

    Good to see J1 doing strong. I admit I always J1

  • '17 '16 '13 '12

    I’m facing a G4 right now. It’s nice but awaiting the onslaught!

  • TripleA

    If you are the allies and Japan does not war round 2, shove everything. USA can put a fighter on each island with an airbase, china, uk, Russia, you should also have islands under uk pac and Anzac control (leave inf on it) Anzac air can land on islands don’t forget, just shove everything. Japan can’t hit everything and you can start to wither away at Japan.

  • '15 '14

    @Zhukov44:

    Assuming G40 2nd edition, imho J3 is inferior to J1 or J2.  As Axis, I prefer J1, but J2 is almost as good if Axis knows what to do.

    Agree!

  • '17

    @Cow:

    If you are the allies and Japan does not war round 2, shove everything. USA can put a fighter on each island with an airbase, china, uk, Russia, you should also have islands under uk pac and Anzac control (leave inf on it) Anzac air can land on islands don’t forget, just shove everything. Japan can’t hit everything and you can start to wither away at Japan.

    I am convinced you’re right after seeing this first hand in the one game we started; though depending on dice, Japan might, maybe get the chance to regain the initiative. I hope I get a few more rounds with you.

    I was in group think where the allies players would not shove anything forward unless they had like 70% odds or better. Shoving everything forward is smart as Japan cannot hit everything. Anything they don’t hit is a gain for the allies.

    I’m going to try this if Japan does not go to war on round 2. I think an aggressive allies strategy against Japan like that might lead to less J3 attacks.


  • I like J4…because I like a G1/J1 on Russia. I take out 10 infantry in western Russian zones, and wait for foolish Russian counterattacks which exposes them to losing more units. Total kill Russia first strat for all three axis. J1 from the east and take 3 territories (the Mongolian troops are out of position and not an issue). I1 build mech/tank and head to the front ASAP. I then begin to strat bomb Moscow when in range (usually G3/I3). I keep USA out of the war until they declare at the end of US3 (limiting them to 52 IPCs for first three rounds, importantly* the limit of 3 units at each factory prevent a huge buildup. I take out China by round 4-5 using all 21 aircraft and 2 factories on mainland making mechs and tanks.  Japan usually has 6-10 Russian IPCs, so Japan usually collects 50+ before even taking the money isles (gaining USA 10 IPC NO three times). USA cant get to anything important in Europe before US6, and by then I am taking out Moscow (severely weakened by combination of the loss of eastern IPCs to Japan, strat bombing, and first round loss of 10 infantry). I call this strat the “Land War in Asia”, and I find it successful far more than 50%.

  • TripleA

    I am surprised you don’t Dow j3 if you are doing Russia, you have to take out UK Pacific otherwise it is the second Russia if it grows too big and the allies contest islands. The income can get out of hand, usually turn 2 they Dow on you for the NOs if you aren’t able to snag islands because USA only loses out on a round of attacks, that is it.


  • i declared in turn one all allied powers (not russia) war and attack,
    see also my japan playbook.

    i think, this is the best starting for japan, because you get a lot of ipcs and can attack more territories from this position.

  • '17 '16 '13 '12

    @Cow:

    If you are the allies and Japan does not war round 2, shove everything. USA can put a fighter on each island with an airbase, china, uk, Russia, you should also have islands under uk pac and Anzac control (leave inf on it) Anzac air can land on islands don’t forget, just shove everything. Japan can’t hit everything and you can start to wither away at Japan.

    I’m a big proponent of aggressive play against Japan. Anzac fighters play a big role.


  • I am a big proponent for J2 DOW. J1 I purchase the classic 2 transports and minor facility, mobilize in Asia, take the easy Chinese territories, and use the heavy bombers and Kwangsi units to take out the Burma road at Yunnan.

    In the non combats I move the navy from SZ19 and 20 to SZ36, with both transports stocked. keep a 2 unit perimeter on each territory adjacent to the China front, move the rest down the coast (leaving the infantry stacks on Manchuria and Korea). The loaded aircraft carrier in the Caroline Islands moves to SZ36 as well (to make a more dynamic looking plan). And then the entire navy in other than the cruiser and 1 destroyer SZ 6, with the transport loaded with the tank from Japan and 1 infantry from Korea, moves to the Caroline Islands.

    This mobilizes the Japanese forces for taking Hong Kong by land and air J2, Borneo from SZ36, and Malaysia with most of the SZ36 Armada, including the other transport, and the heavy bombers. Depending on whether the UK turtles GB1, some of the force can go towards a Philippines attack as well.

    Now the variable then becomes what to do with the transports purchased in J1 in SZ6, and the Caroline Islands fleet. You have the option of a full strike and hold of the Honolulu, or a strike on Queensland and the Philippines.

    No matter what path you take, the key is always to keep as many planes and capital ships alive as possible, ideally you will not lose more than 3 planes, and no capital ships at all.

    Thoughts?


  • Howdy ya’ll…  With 57 votes so far, J2 has a clear lead.

    I thought J1 or J3 would pull ahead… either balls to the walls fighting starting turn 1, or keep the US out longer.  J2 splits it down the middle, lots of directions the game can go.   But I am surprised J2 is in 1st place so far.

    Thx again everybody for the comments and contributions.

    Also please check out Tabletop Simulator on Steam, my preferred way to play A&A G40 real time. Hit me up I’ll host a game, my Steam ID  is DadaPlaysDaBlues

    :mrgreen:   Cheers…


  • I experimented with J1 on the Tripe A game against hard AI’s and I prefer it than riding out US trade. I am not sure however if I want to try a J1 against other people.


  • As far as the game setup goes, and trying to compare the setup to the actual timeline of the war, I believe that a J2 DOW is more comparable to the actual timing of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor… However, we all know that an actual Pearl Harbor type strategy is most likely the optimal strategy when playing this game.


  • @tambo264:

    As far as the game setup goes, and trying to compare the setup to the actual timeline of the war, I believe that a J2 DOW is more comparable to the actual timing of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor… However, we all know that an actual Pearl Harbor type strategy is most likely the optimal strategy when playing this game.

    J2 seems like it, in terms of history, you would have to spend J1 invading Chinese and then on J2, attack Hong Kong, The Phillis, and Pearl Harbor on the same turn.

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