Can you save the Bismarck

I voted 20% of the time.

I’m of the opinion that it best to use the Bismarck in SZ 111 with the hope that you can retreat it to SZ 112 with a damaged UK battleship left behind. But, if the UK player bids a UK fighter to Scotland to threaten a 2 plane scramble, I then will usually use it in SZ 110. I still send 2 subs to SZ 106.

With semi-experienced to very experienced players, I think the Axis lose the game because Russia gets too powerful (so I usually buy air/ground) if Germany isn’t very careful about their Sea Lion execution. Therefore, keeping the Battleship for G2 is important because it supports a viable Sea Lion threat. Having said that, I wouldn’t purposely not use it in SZ 110 or SZ 111 just to keep it.

I think safely pulling off Sea Lion is one of the most satisfying things to do when playing Germany. In a FEW games I’ve managed to do that WHILE (the most critical aspect), properly managing Russia. I’m not of the opinion that an Axis player, playing against a good Allies player SHOULD insist on executing Sea Lion by starting naval investments on G1. (I’m not a very good player period, but I think I understand the basics of the game). However, if you’re of the opinion that you need to buy boats G1 no matter what, then if not doing Sea Lion (because the UK purchases a lot for London), I think they need to be used for something other than just shucking infantry/artillery to Leningrad like maybe hitting Gibraltar on G2. Then you’re presenting a different credible threat to the UK (going after Cairo) and in theory have a chance.

Maybe 25% of the time the German battleship gets to retreat to SZ112 leaving behind that wounded UK battleship. Then if having won at SZ 106 and then on UK1 1-2 less units are placed on London than the standard 6 inf / 1 fighter, Sea Lion becomes a possibility. That I think is largely because the Bismarck is there for a bombardments (and less stuff required to mitigate a scramble to SZ110). This is the game where the Bismarck “replaces” the need to buy purchase a carrier G1; and hopefully a G1 ground/air purchase convinced Russia to not buy 3-4 tanks R1. If doing Sea Lion, I would then buy a carrier the round I hit London.

In my humble opinion the only way to save the Bismarck is by attacking SZ111 and retreat to SZ112 leaving behind a damaged UK battleship.
On the other hand if this gives the UK player the posibility to save his Prince of Wales, nothing is won.

Personally I would never give it away for free.
In one game I played UK and my oponent whiped out my SZ111 fleet by the aid of the Bismarck, but I also rolled some hits. Instead of taking a sub he took both hits on the battleship with the words, “it is lost anyway”.

e.g. could it be moved to SZ109, paired with other surviving ships of the atlantic. It is not save there, that is for sure, but definately it is not an autokill for German Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe. And if you are planing on Operation Seelion, you also need your planes for Adlertag…

it’s tricky because if you don’t bring enough into 111, he scrambles and you lose too much. bring in too much and you lose your BB

Depending on what Germany purchased and which German subs survived, and providing that none of those subs are in SZ106, it may be possible to save the UK battleship or to make sinking it unattractive by moving it to SZ123, and landing the Scottish and the French fighter on Iceland, assuming the English planes are used for Taranto. If Germany didn’t attack SZ106 or lost that battle, 2 Canadians can be sailed to Iceland to reinforce it against an invasion. Any surviving UK destroyers could also go to SZ123. In case of a J1 DOW, the US can further reinforce Iceland and/or SZ123.

If the Germans then still want to destroy the British battleship, they will need to send most or all of their warships. The US can help by building an Atlantic fleet poised to take out the Germans in SZ123, and the Axis can then prevent that only by postponing Japan’s DOW until turn 3.

@ShadowHAwk:

Would you scramble 4 planes to defend a damaged BB and a destroyer vs 2 subs 3 fights 3 tacticals and 2 strat bombers?

This presupposes that Germany won those coin-flip-battles on SZ106 and SZ91.
But my answer is: “No I would not!” Because I would build 10 units on London and get Sealion of the board.

What is the point? You don’t need it.

You don’t need it but it is useful for holding the USA back from D-Day landings or for late game sea lions. Perhaps if you need it for the former, you aren’t winning unless you have or are going to gain Egypt.

You get the middle east by buying air and attacking ground with it.

@Cow:

You get the middle east by buying air and attacking ground with it.

Air force > Navy in this game