• Is anybody aware of the motivation behind the merging of Yukon & BC for the second edition?

    This seems pretty trivial - unless perhaps the idea was to hinder Japan’s ability to mess around in NA?  Was that necessary?  Is Operation Hollywood OP?  What’s going on here?

    Map Changes.jpg

  • '16

    I’m assuming it’s more of a aesthetic decision than anything else.
    Entirely because Yukon Territory seems useless.
    British Columbia serves the exact same function as Western Canada,
    So Yukon Territory doesn’t really need its own province.

  • 2024 '22 '21 '19 '15 '14

    Somehow I doubt it was a deliberate decision. A draft error seems more likely. Someone probably just attached an earlier proof of the Pacific map by accident, or something along those lines.

    If it was an aesthetic decision or motivated by a gameplay consideration it would almost certainly have been mentioned as such.

    My guess is that there was a rush to correct the location of the Honolulu VC (which incidentally is still in the wrong place on the 2nd Edition map. They moved it off the Big Island, but put it on Maui instead of Oahu) and somehow in that process Canada got switched to an earlier drafting?

    That’s just a guess, but I think if it was a push to make the map more accurate or improve the Global gameplay, you would have seen more revisions especially to the Europe map, which has a couple issues of its own that weren’t addressed in the 2nd edition.


  • An alternate theory – and I’m just speculating here – would be as follows.  On the Europe 1940 side of the board, Canada has lots of territories occupying a fair bit of map space, so its presence is hard to ignore.  By contrast, on the Pacific 1940 side of the board, the only Canadian real estate is the small section north of the Western United States and east of Alaska, which consists of one 1-IPC and one 0-IPC territory in 1940.1 and a single 1-IPC territory in 1940.2.  Given the small footprint of this section, and given that there’s only 1 PIC to be had there in each version of the game, and given that under the OOB rules Canada is controlled by the UK, it may be that this section looked too much like an oddity to the folks who were revising the game map and who were, perhaps, looking at Pacific 1940 too much as being a stand-alone game.  This could have led to the idea of “Let’s simplify this, and eliminate this oddity, by merging Yukon Territory and B.C. into a single territory, and by replacing the Canadian roundel with a U.K. one.”  The territorial merger – which has no IPC effect – is inoccuous regardless of whether or not you view Pacific 1940 as 100% of a stand-alone game or as 50% of Global 1940, which may be why that modification is not listed in the errata.  The roundel switch, on the other hand, makes a certain amount of sense when you view Pacific 1940 as 100% of a stand-alone game, but it makes no sense whatsoever when you view Pacific 1940 as 50% of Global 1940, which may be why that modification IS listed in the errata.


  • Refresh my memory, was the Canadian roundel meant to indicate that BC was part of the European economy?  Has this changed in 2nd ed?


  • @zooooma:

    Refresh my memory, was the Canadian roundel meant to indicate that BC was part of the European economy?  Has this changed in 2nd ed?

    The rules include phrases like “the United Kingdom (including Canada) […] the United Kingdom controls the Canadian territories in addition to those with its own emblem […] On the map, Canada has its own emblem. The IPC income generated by Canadian territories is collected by the United Kingdom player.”  The upshot is basically that Canada is treated as part of the UK in every respect, except for the fact that it has its own roundel.  My theory (since I’ve already put forward one a few minutes ago; this seems to be a good day for speculation) is that Canada has its own roundel in Global 1940 for a couple of reasons:

    1. Holland has its own roundel (though, ironically, it’s not use on occupied Holland itself) because the game starts in June 1940, and this date required some peculiar rules to cover the situation of the Dutch East Indies, one aspect of which was that it was useful for the DEI to be easily recognized visually as still being under Dutch rule.  Holland thus became a non-player nation with a distinct roundel, so the same principle could easily be extended to Canada, which fielded considerable land, air and naval forces during WWII and which is 1,657 times the size of Holland in terms of surface area.  (To put it another way, Holland is a couple of hundred square kilometers smaller than Canada’s smallest province, P.E.I.).

    2. It’s good marketing.  If you look at the rulebook, you’ll see that Wizards of the Coast’s Renton WA headquarters is responsible for both the US and Canada, and I’d like to think that they were perceptive enough to realize that their Canadian customers would be happy to see Canada get its own roundel in the big 1940 game.  I certainly was.

  • '18 '17 '16

    I think your second guess is probably the correct one Marc. After America, Canada is a solid second in popularity for the A&A franchise. They also had a fairly big role in WW2 so it isn’t a stretch for them to give Canada it’s own roundel in the game.

  • '17

    Yes, Canada contributed a lot during WW2; especially compared to the size of it’s population. I read that 10% of the population served! That’s huge. Many Americans don’t even know that Canada had its own beach during D-Day and performed well! Good job Canada!

    https://www.junobeach.org/canada-in-wwii/articles/d-day/

    Roundel:  Even though Canada could operate as it’s own independent country in this game (it was granted full independence in 1931), I think the reason for Canada getting it’s own roundel is NOT due to gameism reasons. I think it partly due to marketing reasons (Canadian patriotism which is great) as well as to add more eye candy to the board! Historically speaking, to some degree, the several Canadian divisions in Europe (was it 6 out of 8 Canadian divisions in Europe? Help me out Canadians), often were assigned to an Army Group commanded by a British Commander. Canada used a lot of equipment similar to what the UK then used. Today even, a lot of the same type of equipment and some weapons in service today are shared amongst the English speaking countries like our mechanized vehicles.

    Anyways, I think Canada getting it’s own roundels serves a good balance between history and the gameism aspect of linking them up under the umbrella of the UK. I don’t know why one Canadian territory vs another might have a UK roundel or a Canadian one. That doesn’t makes sense to me.

    Side bar…Interestingly enough to me, the concept of the “Army Group” as a military unit level (like company, battalion, regiment…ect), was invented during WW2 due to the sheer size of numbers in order to better improve command and control. Total Army strength was large enough during WW1, yet when that war started, the “Army” was the highest unit field command. If the 7 western invading German Armies were further organized into 3 Army Groups (lets, call them, Army Group North 2, Army Group Center 3, Army Group South 2), it might have resulted in better cooperation amongst them and the blunder of that occurred on 7-12 September 1914 might not have happened.


  • @CWO:

    1. It’s good marketing.  If you look at the rulebook, you’ll see that Wizards of the Coast’s Renton WA headquarters is responsible for both the US and Canada, and I’d like to think that they were perceptive enough to realize that their Canadian customers would be happy to see Canada get its own roundel in the big 1940 game.  I certainly was.

    @Ichabod:

    Roundel:  Even though Canada could operate as it’s own independent country in this game (it was granted full independence in 1931), I think the reason for Canada getting it’s own roundel is NOT due to gameism reasons. I think it partly due to marketing reasons (Canadian patriotism which is great) as well as to add more eye candy to the board!

    I’m a Canadian boy myself.  I was delighted to see the roundel at first, but I think that was followed by profound disappointment in learning that it was no more than a glorified, dressed-up UK roundel.  :-(

    So disappointed that I must have blocked out the memory - hence my asking if it had special rules.

  • '17

    Zoooma,

    Sorry man.

    There are some good house rules out there for making Canada it’s own country.

    Also, look up Young Grasshopper’s Halifax House Rules.

    If Canada was it’s own country in the game (with UK increased values to make up for the loss, and a tad bit higher for Canada), then perhaps Canada could add some blockers (Pacific), or some can openers in Europe. It might be enough to balance the game enough to end the high bid that Allies players sometimes get. Definitely be interesting to try out a HR with Canada as another power.

  • 2024 2023 '22 '21 '20 '19 '18 '17

    While I feel no particular urge to involve myself in the topic of Canadian (or for that matter, Dutch) roundels on the A&A game board, I think it’s still appropriate to correct some geographical misconceptions here. Specifically:

    @CWO:

    … and which is 1,657 times the size of Holland in terms of surface area.  (To put it another way, Holland is a couple of hundred square kilometers smaller than Canada’s smallest province, P.E.I.).

    The surface of Prince Edward Island is 5,660 km2. “Holland”, which has not existed as a single political entity since 1840, was a historical area of the Netherlands approximately contiguous with the current Dutch provinces of South Holland (2,818 km2) and North Holland (2,670 km2), for a total of 5,488 km2. So in that sense, the statement that Holland is smaller than PEI is correct. However, if you include the water area which Holland has and PEI strangely doesn’t have, at 7,494 km2 Holland is actually quite a bit larger than PEI. And the historical county of Holland was also larger as it included areas that are now part of different provinces, notably Brabant and Utrecht. The areas of the provinces vary slightly over the years anyway because sometimes their borders are changed as municipalities merge.

    Quite apart from that, the larger and quite common misconception is of course, to equate Holland with the Netherlands, which at 41,543 is really a lot larger that PEI (and at 9,984,670 km2, Canada is “only” 240 times the size of that  :-) ). The A&A map unfortunately adds to this misunderstanding by having an are labeled “Holland Belgium”. The aforementioned Dutch provinces of North and South Holland don’t even border Belgium, so an area “Holland Belgium” would be a non-contiguous oddity, with the remainder of the Netherlands in between and to the north and east. “Low Countries” might have been a better name, also because it can to some degree be considered to encompass Luxembourg as well.


  • @Ichabod:

    Zoooma,

    Sorry man.

    There are some good house rules out there for making Canada it’s own country.

    Also, look up Young Grasshopper’s Halifax House Rules.

    If Canada was it’s own country in the game (with UK increased values to make up for the loss, and a tad bit higher for Canada), then perhaps Canada could add some blockers (Pacific), or some can openers in Europe. It might be enough to balance the game enough to end the high bid that Allies players sometimes get. Definitely be interesting to try out a HR with Canada as another power.

    I was hoping the roundels meant a separate economy, but not a separate power.  Or a back up home base where UK can build if London falls.

    Imagine a game where early Sea Lion is common but the game could still ,ast many turns and go either way.


  • @Herr:

    While I feel no particular urge to involve myself in the topic of Canadian (or for that matter, Dutch) roundels on the A&A game board, I think it’s still appropriate to correct some geographical misconceptions here. Specifically:

    @CWO:

    … and which is 1,657 times the size of Holland in terms of surface area.  (To put it another way, Holland is a couple of hundred square kilometers smaller than Canada’s smallest province, P.E.I.).

    The surface of Prince Edward Island is 5,660 km2. “Holland”, which has not existed as a single political entity since 1840, was a historical area of the Netherlands approximately contiguous with the current Dutch provinces of South Holland (2,818 km2) and North Holland (2,670 km2), for a total of 5,488 km2. So in that sense, the statement that Holland is smaller than PEI is correct. However, if you include the water area which Holland has and PEI strangely doesn’t have, at 7,494 km2 Holland is actually quite a bit larger than PEI. And the historical county of Holland was also larger as it included areas that are now part of different provinces, notably Brabant and Utrecht. The areas of the provinces vary slightly over the years anyway because sometimes their borders are changed as municipalities merge.

    Quite apart from that, the larger and quite common misconception is of course, to equate Holland with the Netherlands, which at 41,543 is really a lot larger that PEI (and at 9,984,670 km2, Canada is “only” 240 times the size of that  :-) ). The A&A map unfortunately adds to this misunderstanding by having an are labeled “Holland Belgium”. The aforementioned Dutch provinces of North and South Holland don’t even border Belgium, so an area “Holland Belgium” would be a non-contiguous oddity, with the remainder of the Netherlands in between and to the north and east. “Low Countries” might have been a better name, also because it can to some degree be considered to encompass Luxembourg as well.

    Good points.  I grabbed my surface area figures from Wikipedia a little too quickly.

  • '19 '17 '16

    I’ve met a lot of people over the years from The Netherlands, and when asked where they’re from they invariably say “Holland”.  I’m guessing it’s because all the Netherlanders I’ve met are from the Holland part, but still, it’s interesting that they always say “Holland” and not “The Netherlands”.

    Then again, when asked, I always say I’m from “Alberta”, but that’s just because I don’t feel like it makes sense to say “Canada” when the country is larger than some continents.  It doesn’t really narrow it down much.

  • '17 '16

    As a Southerner from the US, I just say “I’m from 'merica”… and when asked about foreigners, we always say “they took er jobs!”

    Wait, is it still April Fools?

  • '22 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16

    I have to post this video link:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-csGDoSSZyc

  • 2024 2023 '22 '21 '20 '19 '18 '17

    @StuckTojo:

    I’ve met a lot of people over the years from The Netherlands, and when asked where they’re from they invariably say “Holland”.  I’m guessing it’s because all the Netherlanders I’ve met are from the Holland part, but still, it’s interesting that they always say “Holland” and not “The Netherlands”.

    I have to admit that we’re making things complicated. I live in Holland myself, but I know of people in other provinces who balk at being called “Hollanders”. To add to the confusion, the Netherlanders are mostly called the “Dutch” in English, a word that is etymologically related to “Deutsch”, which means “German” in German. So it all gets completely mixed up - for example, the “Pennsylvania Dutch”, were originally from Germany.

    @StuckTojo:

    Then again, when asked, I always say I’m from “Alberta”, but that’s just because I don’t feel like it makes sense to say “Canada” when the country is larger than some continents.  It doesn’t really narrow it down much.

    But are you sure the people you talk to, know where Alberta is?

    @General:

    I have to post this video link:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-csGDoSSZyc

    :-D

    And also…. sorry for completely derailing this topic.

  • '18 '17 '16

    Alberta is right between BC and Saskatchewan where it always was. You can’t miss it. It’s bigger than most of the countries on Earth.

  • '21 '20 '18 '17

    there is quite a distinct GAME reason why this was “unsplit”.

    When there is just 1 territory up there,
    If Japan takes Alaska, tanks from the US can cross direct to attack.
    If the US has units in West Canada, it can make Japan’s invasion position insecure.

    When there is only 1 west Canada;
    Japan cant block the southern one and hide in the upper square and Alaska or land its planes up there in force (10+).

    When there are 2 squares of Western Canada, it can make the Japanese position very difficult to dislodge, because on the second turn of their invasion, they can put forces both on Alaska and in that upper, northern square where they can’t be attacked amphibiously.  Also, any tanks on Alaska can drive onto the other mapboard unblockably because it is much harder for the US to block/strike both squares, esp. just after the USA got invaded.  At that point, Germany lands on top of the hidden, protected square with its airforce and now they are unstoppable and can occupy all of America’s attention and $$ (Operation Hollywood).

    I think this was done to keep America from having such a hard time of pushing Japan out of that area and not giving Japan an unthreatened backfield that they can hide in to prevent an American counterattack.

    Most Japan invasions of USA begin by splitting your forces both land and sea to block all those squares that the USA wants to cross through to strike your forces, then flying your airforce over to protect your beachhead.  Larry may have seen how abusive it is to give Japan an LZ that the US has such problems hitting.

  • '19 '17 '16

    @GeneralHandGrenade:

    Alberta is right between BC and Saskatchewan where it always was. You can’t miss it. It’s bigger than most of the countries on Earth.

    Hahaha.  A big fist-bump from across the border, neighbour.  :lol:

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