• Well for the least I can say I really am enjoying this but I think we’ve reached bedrock at this point so there’s no reason to dig further. If you wanna start another thread I’ll join you


  • @Luftwaffles41 Yes or by email? Where are you from btw?


  • @Cornwallis

    The United States. Just toss me the link to the thread and I’ll cover any of your questions or strategies you have.


  • @Argothair

    Hey, just wanted to update you on a game I just did with a buddy of mine where I tested Afrika Korps and the J1 attack.

    I didn’t get to calcutta before the game ended unfortunately but I did conquer the money islands and China and he didn’t fall for the trap so that kinda hurt me in the long run.

    But Afrika Korps, that went smoothly. Got troops down into Africa and protected the Italian fleet until it finally built up and together Germany and Italy conquered Egypt right in time for the U.S to show up so that they could turn their navies around to protect Gibraltar.

    Germany captured the oilfields of the middle east and got all 3 of their 2 IPC national objectives for it and placed a minor complex on Persia.

    The part that I was astounded by was how well Barborossa went. As GHG states, Afrika Korps doesn’t work because it takes too much away from your Barborossa attack which I thought was true but that wasn’t the case. (btw for clarification my buddy did the Russian Counter-Attack strategy against me, and it didn’t go well)

    By turn 2 after he counter attacked my army in Bessarabia and advanced his forced from Leningrad into Baltic States I destroyed 10 of his tanks on G2. By the end of the game I had over 20 infantry, 17 tanks, and 14 mech infantry standing in the Kremlin and Stalingrad.

    What shocked me the most was just by 1 battle in Bessarabia that happened after he counter-attacked and it sent him fleeing the ENTIRE southern portion of the Soviet Union, which need I remind has twice the amount of money the Northern portion has. I had little resistance moving into the south because he had to retreat his forces all the way to Stalingrad and he’s going to have to pull them back to Moscow as well.

    I’m making 90+ IPC’s every turn as Germany, and have 2 more victory cities to go, and am just deciding to do Sealion since it’s turn 6 because what the hell I have 90 IPC’s in the banks.

    So that’s the basis of what happened, an incredibly successful Afrika Korps especially with the J1 attack in play, though I didn’t conquer Sub Saharan Africa, I didn’t really need to. I got Italy to fullfill it’s purpose to conquer the Med and Germany had a beautiful Barborossa attack.

    Let me know what your thoughts are so I can make this better and possibly find a counter to it.

  • 2021 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16

    Hey Luftwaffles, glad you’re having fun with these strategies. It’s hard for me to comment in depth because I’m not sure I follow the details of what you’re calling the “Afrika Korps” strategy or the “Russian Counter-Attack” strategy. I don’t have every single opening memorized; I’m mostly just here to preach the joy and power of the Persia factory and the South African shuck-shuck. If you want me to see exactly what happened, you’ll have to either attach a save game file or go into much more detail.

    That said, you wrote that you destroyed 10 Soviet tanks on G2, which sounds impossible – Russia only starts with 2 tanks and 2 mechs. Even if they build 3 more tanks in Leningrad (which is foolish), that’s still only 5 tanks you could possibly destroy, and realistically, you wouldn’t be able to reach all of them. Even destroying 10 tanks on G3 sounds like it would require both players to actively cooperate to achieve that goal! The Soviet Union shouldn’t have 10 tanks at the end of R2 in Global; if they do, then the Soviet player has screwed up badly. So I think that’s probably a large part of why your game went the way it did – if the Soviet player is that incompetent (or if you’re using some kind of alternate setup rules), then it doesn’t matter too much what happens in Egypt or Wake Island; the game will be decided, as yours was, in eastern Europe.


  • @Argothair

    I apologize it was not G2 my bad I actually meant the second turn to which Barborossa began… I commensed with operation Barborossa on G3 and on G4 I destroyed 10 of the Soviet Tanks that’s my bad sorry shoulda clarrified.

  • 2021 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16

    OK – that makes a lot more sense, but it’s still piss-poor Russian tactics, in my opinion. If you’re leaving 10 Russian tanks sitting around in range of the main German stack on G4, then you’re handing the Axis the game on a silver platter. It’s fine to build some tanks as Russia; I think we discussed this either a few pages back or on another thread. But the tanks are there as a deterrent, to stop Germany from advancing too quickly or from leaving important stacks too weakly defended. You can’t just throw your tanks at Germany for the hell of it like some kind of berserker and expect it to go well.


  • @Argothair

    Exactly, hence why the Russian-Counter Attack strategy really doesn’t work. All I have to do as Germany is let the Soviet’s tire themselves out. I can replace my losses. They can’t. Some of his tanks he couldn’t move back since they moved 2 and others he didn’t move back for some reason idk why but regardless the counter attack strategy doesn’t work.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq17jkmkuHc this right here is General Hand Grenade’s strategy for Russia, it doesn’t work. Russia doesn’t have the resources to step away from it’s supply line to go on the offensive against the 3rd Reich.


  • @Argothair

    For the most part it was kind of just a playtest since he did the Taranto Raid as well with both strategies being put into the ditch after Afrika Korps. (btw to simplify things, all Afrika Korps is is Germany taking 3 transports, a BB, CV, Cruiser and Sub to the Med to protect the Italian fleet until it can protect itself, then conquer the ME and Egypt and win the game and sit on the throne on the doorstep to Moscow

  • '19 '18

    how did an allied thread turn into a triumphalist axis thread?

  • 2021 2020 '18 '17

    @crockett36 a dissembling digression of inferences based on speculative anecdotes from a variety of players of different skill levels with wildly varying opponents on different platforms.

    as we do

  • '19 '18

    you forgot the unspoken preference of most axis and allies players to play Germany and Japan. Hmm? woonder why?

  • '19 '18

    @taamvan Well crafted sentence. You should start a thread with that title. It most elegantly and adroitly expresses the need for a handicapping system.

  • '19 '18

    So why did me fail?

  • '19 '18

    me means middle earth?

  • 2021 2020 '18 '17

    @crockett36 Because I got shamefully sealioned as I’ve sealioned myself so many times before;

    Germany buy 2 SB save 6
    Kill SZ 91 CA first strking
    Take Yugo outright no strafe
    (play read; Stratbombing then SL)

    1. Buy UK 1 8 inf 1 mech (mech went to SA)
      Do Taranto all in, Gib fighter to kill DD
      DD kills fighter Italy keeps 2 trans
      TT goes to africa with tank in anticipation of heading to Africa
      TT goes S empty
      Scotland fighter helps DD kill sub that lived in SZ 91 and is stuck in FWA

    2. Germany gets ready to annhilate me and bombs me out without reply I repair 15 and buy 4 inf 1 fighter my chance of survivng the first round is like 10% and he has another wave ready as always…

    G3 me = noob after so many games following a canned plan made by another noob

    UK 3 noob = loses

    UK has to do pat buys, it cannot do anything flexible, and it probably shouldnt send everything to Taranto, risking a backfire as the gentleman here was speaking about just this week as I was preparing.

  • 2021 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16

    @taamvan I usually send 2 units to the Malta sea zone battle on UK1 (eg. DD + fighter, or CA + fighter), to make darn sure to kill the second transport. Killing Italian surface boats is nice, but the transports are a higher priority on turn 1, so I wouldn’t split the UK forces in the Med so drastically as to put 9 units on Taranto and 1 on Malta. An 8/2 split makes more sense.

  • 2021 2020 '18 '17

    @Argothair Its good to hear from you again brother.

    I know how to allocate the battle. I lost the SZ 91 CA. I was just blathering on to a new player in this thread about how you should never undercut Taranto because you risk a scramble. I did that and kept my CV, 1 Fighter, 1 CA. He snaked the plane stack in Syria (GHG suggests Trans J) w his 2 TTs AND he swacked my ships. Easily.

    However, if you read my playout, none of that mattered–I was missing 1 inf 1 tank from Canada I ambitiously sent south.
    I was missing the DD blocker
    I put 1 mech in SA
    AND
    Everything went to Taranto

    and that is a 100% idiot move because if you don’t protect UK with all you can on turns 1-2 (assuming Ger has flex power/$ and units) he can attack you with 2 waves and has a high chance of victory. Especially if you are a noob like me and send anything anywhere else and listen to people on the internet.

    This is why ME doesnt work–you can’t follow all those dealpoints and get UK power south unless GER does something obvious w his starting power/$.

    Some of the basic concepts might be preserved like the SA shuck, the Iraq UK 1 take, the NB on Persia but IDK, its just like I said in 2017 if you dont watch what Germany does and play on rails you will be snaked.

  • 2021 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16

    @taamvan Hello again, old friend! I confess that I had a little trouble following your playout; my apologies for suggesting that you don’t fully understand the Taranto Raid. Consider the comment about the 8/2 split advice for newer players, rather than advice for you. 🙂

    That said, I disagree with 95% of what you’re saying about Middle Earth and Sea Lion. I’ve argued up and down this thread that it’s OK to lose London to a Sea Lion attack as long as you make Germany pay through the nose for it. That means any surviving Canadian forces go to London, not south, and it means the US1 build has to go at least partly in the east, and it means the R1 purchase should include some artillery and mechs, and the R2 purchase (in response to a G2 transport buy) should be mostly artillery and tanks.

    It’s OK for the UK1 turn to be “on rails” because there’s no such thing as predicting the German strategy based on the G1 buy. Germany buys subs and strat bombers? Well, they’re useful for bombing London on G2 and then supporting an invasion of London on G3. They’re also useful for keeping Allied boats away from the western front and then for bombing Russia on G4/G5 and then attacking Moscow on G6/G7. Germany buys 10 infantry? Well, they’re useful for a slow march on Moscow that lands on G8/G9. They’re also useful for loading onto transports to invade London so the rest of your army can go defend Poland, or for launching a second attack on London on G4. Germany buys a destroyer, a sub, and a cruiser? Well, they’re useful for keeping the Baltic Navy alive long enough to load more troops into Norway and Leningrad, and they’re also useful for taking out any Allied naval blockers and scramblers so that most/all of your air force can go to London itself. Any buy that has any conceivable purpose in a war on Russia can also be used effectively in a Sea Lion. You cannot tell whether Germany is coming for London until after you see the G2 buy. There is no such thing as an “obvious” G1 move; it’s nothing more than superstition. You might think that if Germany buys infantry then they’re headed east, or if Germany buys a carrier then they’re headed west, and maybe you know your particular opponent well enough to get inside their head and read their psychology, but there’s absolutely nothing about the game mechanics that forces Germany to go west or go east based on their initial purchase. At worst, a heavy British air presence near London can slightly punish a G1 infantry purchase by forcing Germany to buy some protective boats on G2, limiting them to 7 or 8 transports instead of 9 or 10. This does not mean Sea Lion will fail, and it is not a good tactic to leave your air force at home and skip Taranto just to force Germany to buy a carrier on G2. They’ll get plenty of use out of the G2 carrier if they want to do Sea Lion.

    As far as basic ME concepts, you know I have a running feud with GHG on that topic – the SA shuck is solid, but the turn 1 attack on Iraq is bonkers and the naval base in Persia is overkill. Just build a transport or two in South Africa, shuck the transports back and forth, take Persia UK1, and build a factory in Persia UK2 if there’s no Sea Lion. It’s not rocket science; it’s just solid, steady play focused in the center of the map. When you include the NOs, there’s a lot of money in Egypt / Iraq / Persia, and it’s quite lightly defended – if the British move on the region early, there’s almost nothing the Axis can do to stop them, except take London at exorbitant price, which then usually loses to a follow-up attack by the Red tanks and the US Atlantic fleet. By contrast, trying to mobilize the British to attack and control any other region (e.g. Normandy, Norway, Greece, etc.) in the opening usually means you’re running straight into the teeth of heavy Axis opposition. You wind up with fewer conquests at a higher price, further from the center of the map, which gives you less flexibility in the middle game. From Egypt/Persia you can branch out to Italy, Greece, Libya, Stalingrad, India, or the money islands. From Normandy, you’ve got almost nowhere to go except Belgium.

  • 2021 2020 '18 '17

    @Argothair I’ll examine your reply further, but it was “Maphead” Dave playing with another buddy who is still learning the game, and the 2 SB save $6/+Take Yugo going all in round after round to get $$ (clearly not strafing after strafing the last 20 germany times) it was a play/option easy tell/read from my buddy and FORMER axa “student” now my Darth Vader. Plus I assumed they’d double drop me in the most obvious way possible even before we played. ME didn’t survive that.


  • Our German player always goes for the UK cruiser in SZ91 so attacking the italian TT around Malta and going taranto really empties London. That is why i was looking for an alternative to Taranto but i find myself facing a taranto 2.0 in UK2 or UK3.

    ttaxjinh taamvan said in UK Strategy -"Middle Earth":

    @crockett36 Because I got shamefully sealioned as I’ve sealioned myself so many times before;

    Germany buy 2 SB save 6
    Kill SZ 91 CA first strking
    Take Yugo outright no strafe
    (play read; Stratbombing then SL)

    1. Buy UK 1 8 inf 1 mech (mech went to SA)
      Do Taranto all in, Gib fighter to kill DD
      DD kills fighter Italy keeps 2 trans
      TT goes to africa with tank in anticipation of heading to Africa
      TT goes S empty
      Scotland fighter helps DD kill sub that lived in SZ 91 and is stuck in FWA

    2. Germany gets ready to annhilate me and bombs me out without reply I repair 15 and buy 4 inf 1 fighter my chance of survivng the first round is like 10% and he has another wave ready as always…

    G3 me = noob after so many games following a canned plan made by another noob

    UK 3 noob = loses

    UK has to do pat buys, it cannot do anything flexible, and it probably shouldnt send everything to Taranto, risking a backfire as the gentleman here was speaking about just this week as I was preparing.


  • @cornwallis

    First, I didnt know you guys had continued talking so sorry for my leave of absence,

    Second, I don’t blame him for attacking the sz 91 cruiser, since after all the Middle Earth strat really only works when aligned with America’s floating bridge and the Soviet Counter Attack


  • @argothair

    Glad to see your still here on the forums man, but I need an opinion for an German designed strategy and I feel you’d be able to give me some helpful insight. I’ve been looking at General Hand Grenades video on Middle Earth and to the apparent outcome that it has become 'unstoppable. As for myself, I don’t believe those words for even a second, so I’ve been developing a method for Germany to potentially use that could stop all 3 Allied strategies that GHG developed.

    If im honest its less of a strategy and more of a chemical mixture of different war tactics all with the same purpose of stopping the 3 allied powers in Europe.

    As for GHG’s Russian Fall Back Line and Counter Attack video, I designed a specific method for Germany to break through this which is a little war tactic that goes by the name of “Blitzkrieg”

    As for the American strategy of the floating bridge, I implemented the strategy i previously mentioned to you of “Afrikakorps” as well as Japan attacking on J3 instead of J1

    Now I’m trying to crack the case of defeating Middle Earth… I’ve been stuck on this one for a while.

    Any ideas?


  • @luftwaffles41
    Hi! When you attack Russia G2 and go to Moscow via the southern route (Ukrain), the time you get to Moscow the flow of UK troops hasn’t really started yet i would think. And maybe a fall of India will divert UK’s attention to defending the Middle East?


  • @cornwallis

    Exactly! See, part of what I was developing for a German strategy was to strike at the heart of the U.K’s economy.

    So hear me out on this and tell me what you think.

    First and foremost, you’d obviously be doing an Afrika Korps strategy which is sending a German navy and German units to help assist Italy down in Africa, whilst doing a successful Barbarossa attack. I actually made a thread in Europe 1940 called “Countering the Russian Fall Back Line” with a well devised plan to counter the counter attacking that the Soviet Union can do.

    As for which route Germany should do, I absolutely think they should be taking the southern route since 1) more money, 2) closer proximity of industrial hubs with Stalingrad as well as Ukraine.

    I’ve done counting and from the East Poland border to Moscow, it’s 4 turns, which is the exact amount of time it takes for the British to bring their destroyer and transport from the British Isles all the way to South Africa to start their triangular transport process in their Middle Earth strategy.

    BUT, I have developed a way to potentially counter the Middle Earth strategy and the inevitable Minor Industrial Complex that will be placed on Iraq/Western Persia with a strategy that I like to call “Naher Osten”. This strategy is still a prototype, but the way it works is basically still the same get go, so let me fill you in on the steps.

    Turn 1, Germany should build 2 transports and an Aircraft Carrier to create a fake Sealion build for the British to get all ancy that Sealion will happen, continue normal German moves that you’d do on G1, as for Southern France it’s optional to take it G1 or G2 doesn’t really matter much, but leave Yugoslavia and Greece for Italy since this strategy involves Italy to play a significant role in taking Egypt.

    Turn 2, Germany should take the 2 infantry from Denmark, 1-2 infantry from Norway, the tank and artillery from Normandy down to Gibraltar and Morocco to make an official landing in Africa and control the straight of Gibraltar. Germany should next be building tanks, artillery and infantry for the inevitable attack on the Soviet Union. Now, it really doesn’t matter how you divide your infantry up as the Germans, you can either build the 3 infantry on Normandy and take the 3 infantry from Greater Southern Germany to Southern France, it doesn’t matter what you do, you just need to have 6 infantry and 3 tanks on Southern France, as well as having built either 3 more tanks on France, or 2 tanks and an artillery, etc. just buy 3 units made up of tanks and/or artillery.

    Turn 3, Germany then moves their transports up to Southern France, taking 3 Infantry and 3 tanks down to Tunisia with the 3 movement they get from the newly taken Naval Base. Now, turn 3 should be the proper assorting build to send towards your Barbarossa attack consisting of aircraft, infantry, tanks, artillery, etc. BUT you must build 3 transports on Southern France by G3 for this strategy to work. So, G3 should effectively be your Barbarossa attack, this is when you can go now and go hard on the Soviet Union. I spoke earlier in a thread I made of countering the Russian Fall Back Line if it is enacted and it was a long post so I don’t wanna just say the same thing here, but the point is you can go now, this is it. or you can wait to G4, I’d go on G3 though. Now, as for your newly built 3 transports, the UK may or may not have a bomber on Malta that can reach. The Italian player should take their leftover cruiser, transport and destroyer and sub, (assuming they are all alive) to the sz 93 bordering Southern France to A) Keep the 3 German transports safe and B) Protect those ships from being destroyed by the Royal Airforce, to which being there the British will only have their bomber to take it out which isn’t very cost effective to trade a bomber for a destroyer being that the cruiser gets a guaranteed 2 shots at the bomber. So you’ll have a total of 6 transports, 3 bordering North Africa and 3 on Southern France.

    Turn 4, this is where the strategy is put into play, keep in mind this is the exactly moment where the UK JUST STARTS to get their triangular transport route moving in the Indian Ocean so this couldn’t be better timing for Germany to disrupt the UK. Now, for building units you might wanna consider building a ship or 2 in the Med to help build up the German navy, as well as continually building the proper builds to help assist the invasion on Barbarossa. Now for the combat moves, Germany should take their navy, their 3 transports that will carry 3 infantry and 3 tanks, and their 3 transports on Southern France carrying 3 more infantry, and likely 1 tank and an artillery (It can be whatever you want, you just need to atleast bring 3 tanks), and bring these across the Med and land in SYRIA. The British may or may not know what’s coming, and might have aircraft there as well as some other units, which is perfectly fine, the more units there the better for you. So to recap, you’ll be taking your entire navy, 6 transports holding a total of 6 infantry, 4 tanks, and 2 artillery to Syria, and if there are any units there then you’ll get a landing shot with the battleship and cruiser.

    Within the next 2-3 turns you’ll be able to march across the Middle East, taking the IPCs, the Industrial Complex, and the National Objective money from the British player, whilst Italy focuses on taking out Egypt, and while Japan works on taking out Calcutta, and with this, the British player is absolutely overwhelmed, they effectively have all 3 major Axis powers all marching for their base of operations, which the British just can’t afford to take on all 3 Axis powers, I don’t care how many units the British place in the Middle East and Africa, they just can’t industrialize fast enough to take on all 3 Axis powers. Keep in mind that after you make your landing on G4 into the Middle East, your ships should IMMEDIATLY turn back around to face the impending American navy that is coming across the water, and within a span of 3-4 turns you should have built at least 1 boat to put in the Med to help size up the American navy with your own and with the combined strength of the Luftwaffe and the Kriegsmarine, you’ll be able to push the Americans out from their invasion of Operation Torch, therefore winning the game for yourself since the Americans HAVE to make their landing in Africa by turn 4, and if they’re pushed out then its game over, they can’t afford to make another landing because by then the Soviets will have lost the war.

    I know this post was super long so I’m really sorry for making you have to read all this but I really wanted to make sure this strategy was devised and well thought out to take on the Allied powers.

    Tell me what you think!

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