Aggressive UK Pacific Strategies


  • 2020 2018 2017

    AeV

    Thanks for reminding me about that exploit.


  • 2019 2017 '16

    @taamvan:

    UK should almost never declare unprovoked war.   This decouples USA/UK war trigger and loses the allies 2 turns and 60$, where Japan can now just whale on UK and China instead of going with whatever J2-J4 plan they originally had.

    Apologies if that is not what you meant

    UK1 DOW is bold but times I’ve had it done against me it hasn’t been as bad as I expected. Normally with a USSR assists against Japan strategy. With the correct support it can be a strong move.

    UK2 DOW represents a net gain of normally 15IPC OOB against the Axis. I think it’s the same in BM3. There are reasons not to do it but money isn’t the reason. The major reason to keep peace UK2 is to encourage a J3 DOW and release the USA in the Atlantic.



  • @simon33:

    @taamvan:

    UK should almost never declare unprovoked war.   This decouples USA/UK war trigger and loses the allies 2 turns and 60$, where Japan can now just whale on UK and China instead of going with whatever J2-J4 plan they originally had.

    Apologies if that is not what you meant

    UK1 DOW is bold but times I’ve had it done against me it hasn’t been as bad as I expected. Normally with a USSR assists against Japan strategy. With the correct support it can be a strong move.

    UK2 DOW represents a net gain of normally 15IPC OOB against the Axis. I think it’s the same in BM3. There are reasons not to do it but money isn’t the reason. The major reason to keep peace UK2 is to encourage a J3 DOW and release the USA in the Atlantic.

    A UK1 DOW is nearly always stupid for the allies, Suddenly japan can go hog wild and germany has all options available even sea lion.
    You could end up with london and india falling at the same time ( which saves you a lot of time since it takes 1 country of of the game )


  • 2019 2018 2017 '16

    @ShadowHAwk:

    Finaly someone that agrees 😄

    Hey Shadow, let’s do an online game (league or non-league, I don’t care) after I get back from vacay next week. it’ll be interesting playing against someone who has similar ideas.

    Marsh



  • I like to buy some fast movers for India for aggressive acts of opportunity. My typical first buy for UK Pac (17 IPCs) is 2 mech, 1 tank, and 1 inf. You are still buying to def India, but this allows me the chance to hit Yunnan UK2 if it feels right (or head to Russia). As discussed grinding up Japanese ground units in Asia is #1 priority. Japan will normally have some ground units on Kwangsi with tpts available, but they want use those units to load tpts to take the money islands on the next turn, not worry about Yunnan.

    I might use my Pac tpt to take Java with a couple inf forcing Japan to use more resources to invade (as discussed). This will most likely result in losing that tpt in a J2 attack though, so in order to keep my tpt safe it very well may just activate Persia, or hit the Italians in Africa. I tend to pull my UK Pac ships toward Africa to spare/consolidate my UK resources. They may end up as part of a Med or Middle East navy, and possibly return later with some friends. I just don’t think the UK Pac navy can afford to go toe to toe w/Japan in the first few turns. Even if you set up a good defensive fleet and entice the Japanese to hit you, unless you have a counter attack to finish off his capital ships it would be fruitless IMO. Possibly later if the Japanese split their resources it could be effective.

    Buying mobile units for UK Pac and salvaging whatever naval assets I can also fits well with a UK Persian IC too. The more mobile the the UK is in that region the better IMO, they may end up covering Russia’s southern flank.



  • @Marshmallow:

    @ShadowHAwk:

    Finaly someone that agrees 😄

    Hey Shadow, let’s do an online game (league or non-league, I don’t care) after I get back from vacay next week. it’ll be interesting playing against someone who has similar ideas.

    Marsh

    Sure make a thread in the game section then 🙂


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16

    Especially if there is no aggressive Sea Lion build, I like the idea of using the Indian transport to attack Italian East Africa, building land units in Calcutta, and building naval units in South Africa. If you win a UK1 battle in Ethiopia and also kill off two Italian transports, then Italy has very limited ability to push you out of Egypt…your starting sub Saharan African units can probably march up to Cairo quickly enough to keep it safe even without additional land units built in South Africa.

    The South African factory is limited in number of units per turn, but it’s fueled by the large UK-E economy. Thus, a few expensive naval units. The Calcutta factory can build 10 units a turn, but it’s limited by the tiny UK-P economy. Thus, several cheap land units.

    From the South African naval base, you can show up in west India or the Persian gulf in one move. Stacking the southern British navy further west allies you to dead zone the east Indian ocean against all but a major Japanese naval invasion, and as discussed earlier in the thread, Japan can’t really afford to send, e.g., two full carrier groups all the way west to Bombay / Basrah, because either they will run out of land units in mainland Asia, or their remaining boats will be at a disadvantage vs. the USA.



  • @ShadowHAwk:

    @Marshmallow:

    @ShadowHAwk:

    Finaly someone that agrees 😄

    Hey Shadow, let’s do an online game (league or non-league, I don’t care) after I get back from vacay next week. it’ll be interesting playing against someone who has similar ideas.

    Marsh

    We did, he found out that losing london is not a good thing 🙂

    Sure make a thread in the game section then 🙂


  • 2019 2018 2017 '16

    Losing London is a great thing if Germany has to pay three times what it’s worth to make it happen.

    Screwing up in the Pacific at the same time does indeed suck though!



  • @Marshmallow:

    Losing London is a great thing if Germany has to pay three times what it’s worth to make it happen.

    Screwing up in the Pacific at the same time does indeed suck though!

    You also have a huge chance of losing the gibraltar naval base as well as UK cannot repair it after london falls. And any factories in the middle east become also non functional.

    Yes germany can always take london but you have to make them pay a lot, giving it away cheap is a bad thing. The capture alone is worth 30 in money ( which should cover most of the costs )
    That money also gets taken away from the allies and you basicaly get 8 extra ipcs for germany as long as you hold it, and you dont have to worry about norway or italy for a while.

    Losing london and taking with you a huge part of the german military and being able to get it back in 1-2 turns is not bad.
    Losing london cheap and not getting it back and not forcing germany to spend a lot on it that is a bad thing.



  • Okay so after gazing at the board i kind of have an idea, might not be a good idea but hey

    If there is no J1 attack, what if you spend 15 IPCs on an airfield and place it in Malaya, move the destroyer and cruiser to join the battleship in SZ 37, and move the entire UKPac air-force to Malaya. If Anzac is in the mood they could on their turn move their fighter from Queensland to Malaya too. You then have a 3 fighter scramble to defend your fleet.

    Don’t get me wrong, I know that the Japanese fleet (if its in the right position such as floating around Hainan) could eviscerate that fleet and air-force combined easily.

    However, I wonder what having to address that threat would do to the balance of a J2/3 attack. If the Allies don’t scramble their planes and the Japanese go into the fight with not enough to defend their transports, the allied air-forces could pick off isolated parts of the Japanese fleet or just be used elsewhere in South-East Asia. At the very least it doesn’t make Malaya initially very conquerable given Japan’s starting number of transports and reach, and threatens Japan’s security around the money islands.

    Much of this would also, I guess, depend on what America did too. If it left its submarine, destroyer and fighter in the Philippines then that’s another sea-fight the Japanese navy needs to fight. If you have an Anzac transport and destroyer off of Java too after them seizing that island, that’s another naval target for Japan. If you entice the Japanese fleet to spread out, you have a shot at dealing some damage to them that could put them on the back foot if the US decides to focus on the Pacific.

    let me know your thoughts


  • 2020 2018 2017

    Standing up to Japan isn’t an awful idea, but doing it that early in the game could spell disaster.  A ton of his guys are parked right next to you at the start of J2 no matter what his plan is overall, and you only have 7 hits.    Normally he has to chase you down over many turns and pick you off, but with your plan, you’re gathering everything up for him.  With 2 SB and 1 Air Pair on land, plus a minimum of a Japanese Grand Fleet and the possibility of bringing up to 2 more air pairs, you won’t stand a chance.  The stuff on Philippines can be attacked with newly built reserve stuff from SZ 6 or Japan, its not a distraction…

    Like attacking Russia, this may distract Japan from whatever his original goal was, but only for a turn.  And, since he’s wiped out a big portion of your air and navy in one blow if he comes big, you won’t have 1) the India turtle, you spent the $ on the base 2) the UK eastern navy, which argothair suggests as a potential way of warding off the Japanese, since you can combine everything that doesn’t die during Taranto with the BB, if it survives (now you have 1 CA 1 CV 1 DD 1BB!)

    You’ll also want to block SZ 37 with a DD at the crucial moment, or put the UK DD with the Japanese fleet at peace, thus stopping their ability to load transports.  both of these tricks wont work when you stand off.

    Lots of good UK strategies look to the later game (and saving a bunch of assets long term) where you can use African forces and planes to make India difficult to take, or even get a whole grand fleet together that can prevent Japan from having their way in the Indian Ocean.


  • 2019 2017 '16

    I agree with Taamvan but in one game I did build an airbase in Shan State later in the game which helped to crush Japan. As it happened, Axis won in Europe in that game, rather narrowly. I think SZ37 had the USN parked in it, just with assistance from the UK.



  • Being agressive as the UK is recuired, but tempting japan into attacking you where he can is just plain stupid.

    Things that you can do depend heavy on what japan did and did not. So there is no fixed you should do X or Y.

    There are some guidelines taht the allies should follow regarding how to handle japan.

    Simple ground rules:
    A : Japan needs ground units in china and the money islands.
    B : Japan needs factories and transports to get said units where they need them.
    C : Japan has a huge bigass fleet that and airforce that you cannot stand up to. Dont be on the recieving end if it.

    Being agressive is that you need to attack japan, not defend. This negates their bigest asset their airforce.
    After japan there are 3 countries before it can go again, repairs on capital ships will not happen in between.

    Assist China and the US by taking out small groups of land forces and transports.

    Always try to trade money islands with Anzac, every time you take an island as anzac your income the next round should be 14 so you spend 14 and get 14 back you can keep that up forever.
    It is also costing japan 14 to get it back ( you did sink their transport right ) but those units are 2 turns. That is 4 less land units in china ( 2 for the transport, 2 in the transport )

    When you got a choice between sending an anzac or a US sub to kill a transpot, anzac should do it unless it brings them under 2 attack ships. its just lovely to clear a blocker with the US and then have 1 anzac sub sink 3 japan transports 😄

    When japan splits its fleet, use 2 or 3 strike waves to kill it off, carriers are nice to take hits but the next wave will face not only a damaged carrier but no planes. 3 carries with planes are formidable, 3 damaged carrires are dead.

    If at any point in time you can trade the US+UK+Anzac fleet for the majority of the japan fleet ( you will always miss out the odd destroyer ) do it. Anzac is close to the money islands and US can spend more on fleet then japan can. IF they are blocked out of the money islands for a few turns japan is in huge trouble.

    Help out UK-Pac. as US try to get malaya or borneo back from japan. You dont get the cash but the income can be much more efficiently spend by UK-Pac. They dont need transports to get the boots on the ground.

    Dont throw away UK-PAc airforce ( unless to take out the Japan main fleet ). 2 inf are worthless, 2 inf + 2 fighters + 1 tactical can trade some inf every turn.

    China killing 2-3 units a turn, UK-Pac killing 2-3 units a turn, Anzac taking a money island every turn that is 34 income drained every turn from japan.


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