Kursk 1943

@barnee

An incident would not have been needed-Pearl Harbour still would have happened, just without Hitler declaring war on the US. The Battle Of The Atlantic would still have been won by the Allies, it just would have taken longer without the US fully committing to it. US participation would still have increased though, and if Germany did not declare war (which they should not, to make this scenario more likely), the US would have declared war on Germany in 1943. It might have been a different situation with a truce though.

@CWO:

I’d say it’s one of those exceptions that proves the rule.  If it took 70,000 to 300,000 Persians (Herodotus claims a figure as high as two-and-a-half million) to kill 300 Spartans, that’s actually a pretty pathetic performance on the part of the Persians.

True. However, speaking just about shots and arrows, the Persians did get them all.

Thank you Toblerone. I mentioned it, as I was sure the British Army did something like that after WW1 and the horrific losses small villages suffered if a battle went badly. I know you can see memorials in little villages and the long lists make sad reading, without a list of names with the same surname.

@KurtGodel7:

The Type XXI U-Boat had a rubber coating, making it difficult to detect. Also, its streamlined design allowed it to move faster underwater than it could while surfaced. It had a sophisticated electronics system.

Also, if you’re giving Germany the Type XXI U-boat in 1943, then you should also give it the kinds of torpedoes it had available in 1945.

Hmm maybe the underwater launchable Do-Werfers as well, too?!
German had some successful underwater launchings with, I think 15 or 28cm Do-werfers ,in 1942 near the Penemünde area.

One of the links in the article…

http://www.bbc.co.uk/learningzone/clips/pressure-exerted-by-a-scorpion-tank/17.html

…mentions the interesting factoid that a ballerina standing on one point exerts more ground pressure than a tank because, even though she exerts a lot less force, that force is concentrated on much smaller area of ground.  This would have made an interesting (though clumsy) WWII Soviet propaganda slogan: “Our heroic Bolshoi ballerinas exert more ground pressure than a Fascist Tiger tank!”

@Axistiger13:

Another idea: What if they prepared the attack, but did not launch it?

Problem with this Axistiger, is that this would have been bad for morale. You cannot tell someone(the Germans) the are better than someone else(the Russians) then say: we cannot beat them. The Germans did believe they could best the enemy.
Otherwise, I think it is a great idea.

Worsham: I have been thinking on this, but have not been able to get out my maps. ( Have been busy with Gettysburg!).
Problem with withdrawing from the salient, apart from the morale thing again, is that Kharkov looms large. It cannot be easily abandoned after the great campaign to retake it.
I believe there could have been a shortening of the Southern salient as long as it did not compromise Kharkov.
Building up a reserve and not throwing tanks at minefields and anti-tank emplacements, is definitely the way to go. The Germans always cost the Russians dear when able to do this. (Both 42 Kharkov and 43 come to mind.)
And Manstein was the man to do it. Sacking him was such a bad move by Hitler.

I think if they had won they would have met with another Stalingrad like disaster later in the year. By 1943 Germany’s best East Front strategy was Manstein’s: elastic defence. Hitler would not hear of any retreats, but was the best way to keep ground in the long run. Not attacking in July, but counterattacking an over stretched Russian army later, was better. Everyone knew the Allies were landing in the West soon and much needed mobile units would have to leave the Eastern Front.

Not romance. “Romantizing a period of time” is what I reffer to. It happens all the time. Just like some “romantize” the revolutionary times in the 60’s.

But I’m using illustrations more and more like a creative writer here (which I am) and less like a stone cold Killer or historian.

So lets just get back to business as usual shall we? My Reich armor can pop Shermans like they were balloons.

–-Yeah. I’m now considering myself a Nashorn ace. I don’t recall losing a single battle yet where I had that vehicle. I love that thing. A stone cold, calculated tank obliterator. You just have to keep it safe on the board becuase of it’s weak defense. With it’s ability to ignore one hex of cover, it’s usually not hard to keep that thing in an awesome sniper postion and it’s got the speed to fall back if necessary. Plus – my god, the range alone on that wepon! I love this game.