GW36 Italian Strategy - Operazione Chiave (Operation Key).



  • GW36 Italian Strategy - Operazione Chiave (Operation Key).

    Greetings Gentlemen,

    I’ve written an article twice, both times I have mistakenly closed or refreshed the webpage and lost my work. I had decided to give up in frustration, but have now worked up the nerve to tackle this again. But I got sidetracked, and instead of writing about GW36 Italian Strategy - Somalian Pirate (Crouching Benito) I wrote this article.

    Italy; Italy has always been considered almost a throw away power in the classic G40 game, derided and abused for its insignificance once its initial strength is spent; and realistically it seems that only if the Italians do everything cleverly and the Allies are distracted then perhaps the Italians succeed in becoming a significant power in their own right.

    In G36, Italy seems to follow a similar pattern. In 1936, Italy may be considered a strong presence in the Mediterranean; with a concentrated and powerful navy and a decent army and airforce present in Africa and Europe.
    It begins falling behind in strength as the greater incomes of other powers allow them to build up their armed forces quicker, and that margin is only widened when war, and wartime income, breaks out across Europe.

    Once Italy is at war, every battle becomes costly, replacements and reinforcements cannot be afforded easily. Fighting a two front war becomes the ultimate challenge of luck, maneuver and clever spending.

    The tendency in a typical classic GW 1936 game is this:

    • Germany initiates war by attacking Poland and France.

    • Italy waits until the French Navy has been neutralized via Vichy France government before declaring war against the United Kingdom.

    • Italy runs rampant in the Mediterranean for a few turns.

    • The British forgoes liberating France until a later date, buckle down in defensive positions in Africa and concentrate the Royal Navy.

    • A series of battles take place; the Italian Regia Marina and the British Royal Navy clash. Italy attacks the British before they become entrenched, or the British have built up or concentrated enough forces to begin dislodging the Italians.

    • A victor emerges. Perhaps the Italians have gained a respite for few more turns, perhaps they have lost, but now there is a race to replenish losses.

    • The Allied Wartime Income wins, and another clash occurs; this time, the British, or the Americans win.

    • Italians lose ground rapidly. The Allies control the Mediterranean Sea. With a long coastline to gaurd Italy can not afford to support its army in Africa and must focus all its income to guard its shores.

    • Then Operation Torch and Husky becomes an option, or even a direct attack on Rome. Regardless, Italy ceases to become a threat and is neutralized.

    This is what happens in a classic game. It is by no means the rule, and does not necessarily following the same pattern. If you want to be critical you can always disagree.

    GW36 Italian Strategy - Operazione Chiave (Operation Key)
    The Conquest of Gibraltar.

    I strove to find any Italian military operation plan for capturing Gibraltar, but I could find nothing. Therefore the name derives from Italian wartime propaganda referring to itself as the “Prisoner in the Sea”, due to being contained within the Mediterranean by Gibraltar and the Suez Canal.

    To expound upon this Italian Strategy. One overarching point must be recognized:

    Italy cannot face the full might of the British and Americans alone.

    I think the key for Axis Victory is coordination of strategy and threat. Threat must be placed on as many points at the cheapest cost.

    If France has been annexed by the Germans, sufficient threat must be placed on British convoy lines, British homelands, and British Factories so that their forces must be dispersed and cannot be concentrated. By sending a submarine to attack convoy lines, you force your opponent to send two units to chase the submarine down. By building a transport ship, you force your opponent to garrison two territories. By building a bomber, you force your opponent to guard his factories.

    It becomes a Materialschlacht, War of Material.
    I will go deeper into this with another Strategy Highlight, and also touch upon it in Italian Strategy -Somalian Pirate (Crouching Benito)-

    The German threat is crucial in preventing a buildup of British forces in key territories in Gibraltar and Cairo, and prevents the concentration of the British Royal Navy to oppose the Italian Regia Marina.

    But let us continue:

    If Italy has lost superiority in the Mediterranean; its colonies are compromised, its conquests are indefensible, its homeland is threatened, and the enemy is in the harbor.

    The Importance of controlling the Mediterranean Sea.

    The Mediterranean Sea. Comprised of seven sea zones and several ports, Most territories can be reached in as little as two moves away, and a maximum of three.
    Bordering the Sea Zone are 24 Coastal territories and 8 Islands, 19 of which have an IPP value (6 Axis, 9 Allied, 4 Neutral).

    Coastal Territories:

    • 7 IPP in North Africa.

    • 2 IPP in the Middle East.

    • 3 IPP in Turkey.

    • 4 IPP in the Balkans.

    • 6 IPP in Italy.

    • 1 IPP in France.

    Islands:

    • 1 IPP for Italy.

    • 1 IPP for Britian.

    Wartime Bonuses:
    In addition, the Allies collectively gain 6 IPP for the control of the Suez Canal.
    Italy collects 2 IPP for Gibraltar, 2 IPP for the Suez, and 2 IPP for no Hostile Ships in the Mediterranean Sea.

    The Key Mediterranean Territories are:

    • Gibraltar: Locks the Atlantic-Mediterranean Gate.

    • Morocco: Locks Western North Africa - Africa land route.

    • Egypt: Locks Eastern North Africa - Africa land route.

    • Cairo: Locks the Mediterranean - Red Sea Gate.

    • Neutral Turkey: Locks the Mediterranean - Black Sea Gate. Locks Europe - Middle East land Route.

    • Neutral Spain: Locks land route into Gibraltar or France.

    • The Middle East: hard to defend, hard to hold, but the gateway to Oil and to Soviet Russia.

      .
      Controlling the Mediterranean Sea allows a nation to attack any coastal area at will, overstretching an opposing army in garrisons across the coastline and thinning any defensive power into holding areas of importance or necessity.

      If the Axis control the Mediterranean; it allows them to threaten Allied coastlines from Gibraltar & Morocco to Egypt to Syria, and Cairo: which is worth a 7 IPP collectively to the Allied Powers. Forcing the Allies to withdraw to at least three territories of Gibraltar, Egypt, and Cairo and surrender North Africa and the Mediterranean Islands and possibly even the Middle East to the Axis. The Allies must hold onto these key territories, accepting short term losses in territory to contain a breakout from the Mediterranean.

      If the Allies control the Mediterranean; it allows them to threaten Axis coastlines from Marseilles to Taranto to Corinth, and Rome: the Kingpin territory for Italy. Forcing the Axis forces to shorten their defensive lines and surrender Africa and the Mediterranean Islands and possibly even Corinth to the Allies.
      They are forced to protect at the very least four territories. Marseilles, Turin, Rome, and Yugoslavia from anything that sits outside of Gibraltar in SZ 79, which may become the main waystation for Americans on their way to Europe, posing a consistent and deadly threat, with nearly any invasion fleet enough to swamp any one territory (usually barring Rome).
      These four garrisoned territories are added to those in Fortress Europe, and weaken the commitment to German operations in the East. The Axis powers are hemmed in from all sides. Crucially, these garrisoned units are often pinned into position until the Allies show their hand and invade at a place of their choosing.

      Controlling the Mediterranean makes it too risky for the Allies to invade Europe, removing the need for most garrisons (barring Rome). Allowing for more resources to be placed in securing the Mediterranean.

      If Japan is being belligerent; Gibraltar is the key to the Mediterranean.

      Due to the limits of Allied Factories in the Pacific Theater and Africa, and the activity of the Germans on convoy routes and threats placed on British Homeland, the main threat direction will be from the Atlantic Ocean and not the Red Sea.

      Both the United Kingdom and the Americans will come across the Atlantic. A glance at the map will show that the American coastline is two turns away from Gibraltar (for an Invasion Fleet), but only one turn from British shores. This means that any reinforcement or counterattack in Gibraltar can be achieved rapidly England quickly. Therefore; the ultimate Italian decision to attack will be a last minute one. It may also be that a British realization of the importance of Gibraltar may strengthen the Rock but weaken the Canal, allowing for an Italian attack there.

      Gibraltar is City, a Coastal Territory, and Mountainous Terrain. This means that all Infantry type units will get +1 Defense on all combat rounds from the City and the attackers will suffer -1 Attack on all rounds of combat in the mountains, and (if attacking by sea) able to land only infantry and suffering Double Casualties in the first round.  Devilishly hard.

      Purchasing 1 Militia in, and shipping two Blackshirts and to Gibraltar each turn. These units will be rolling Defense 3 to the opponents Infantry Attack 1 on all rounds of combat. Gibraltar will become a bastion holding back the fleets of the Allies, and protecting the long southern coastline of Europe, saving both Germany and Italy from garrisoning all these territories.

      Germany may build a Transport in the Mediterranean and also assist in the defense of Gibraltar by shipping troops over, sparing Italy’s already small income the financial burden and allowing them to focus on clearing the Mediterranean Sea of enemy ships and capturing Northern Africa or the Middle-East.

      But, I would confidently say that an Axis conquest of Gibraltar will almost guarantee a counterattack by the Allies, making the defense of the Rock of greater importance then the conquest of Africa. Keep in mind also, that by holding Gibraltar, you gain a Wartime Bonus of 2 IPP, and often split the British Royal Navy in twane, allowing the Italians to push the British from the Mare Nostrom and gaining another 2 IPP. Add to this a little conquest of Cyprus will give a +1 IPP. In the face of this, I believe Africa can be relegated to a secondary importance, as any territorial gains made by the Allies extend their defensive lines and expose them to attacks of Italian choosing. The lost income is made up for by the gains in Wartime bonuses and Cyprus, and the British cannot overextend themselves by marching along the coast without American help.

      Their is a very real risk of the Allies landing a force in Morocco and capturing the whole of North Africa. With luck, Vichy France will gain control of Morocco, preventing allied landings without a Declaration of War. But regardless, I believe that that is inevitable, and even if they do, as long as Gibraltar and the Mediterranean Sea is held, Italy will survive. American boots on African soil cannot threaten Rome.

      In short:

      Holding Gibraltar and Securing the Mediterranean Sea is of absolute paramount importance.
      Gibraltar in Allied hands is the loss of the Mediterranean Sea.
      The loss of the Mediterranean Sea is the beginning of the end for Italy.



  • This is not a new thought, I do not credit it as my own.

    I often get sucked in to the attraction of taking Cairo, Italian Armies are poised on the border, the Italian Reiga Marina is ready, sometimes I manage to take it before my Italian Empire comes crashing down from a kick in the west.

    But I realized the real control of the Mediterranean is in Gibraltar, especially if it splits the British Royal Navy in two. The fact that Gibraltar is further away from my Italian armies and closer to enemy sources of power has a subconscious impact on me, as well as knowing the Suez was worth 7 IPP for the Allies and 3 IPP for the Axis, a net swing of 10 IPP!!!

    I’m not saying that the Italians shouldn’t go for the Suez. There will be some games where they should.
    But for the control of the Mediterranean, with a little German help, Gibraltar IS key to stopping those Americans from kicking in the door.



  • Very good discussion!

    Regarding reinforcement (if you manage to take it 🙂 😞

    Have you thought about using german strategic bombers to deliver infantry from France?

    German strategic bombers could also be used for carpet bombing prior to the attack by the Italians.
    To keep the pressure on the UK homeland, Germany could also finish the light carrier and build a few transports in the beginning of the game.

    Another thing to keep in mind: If you take Gibraltar, you close the Med to Allied shipping. Thus the value from Convoying South of Africa increases. This would make the British spend more on Escorts far away from Europe.



  • @Munck:

    Very good discussion!

    Regarding reinforcement (if you manage to take it 🙂 😞

    Have you thought about using german strategic bombers to deliver infantry from France?

    German strategic bombers could also be used for carpet bombing prior to the attack by the Italians.
    To keep the pressure on the UK homeland, Germany could also finish the light carrier and build a few transports in the beginning of the game.

    Another thing to keep in mind: If you take Gibraltar, you close the Med to Allied shipping. Thus the value from Convoying South of Africa increases. This would make the British spend more on Escorts far away from Europe.

    Good points indeed. Especially with the earlier transporting German troops via air, I thought only air transports could do that (and via airfields? I’d have to check the rules). But usually I like to keep some German Air Transports in northern Europe to project threat on England.

    The German player could also bomb Gibraltar like you stated, prior to an attack by Italians, but my fear would be that by doing so would tip the hand of the Axis in signalling an attack is imminent. England can reinforce Gibraltar between the German and Italian turns, or at the very least, sacrifice losing convoy money to concentrate their fleet just inside the straits and prevent an Italian attack.



  • The Balkan nations are also vital for Italy to succeed. They are more achievable. What Italy purchases in the beginning is also a key. Italy has to decide, Land or sea.



  • From re-reading the rules, only Air Transports are mentioned on page 55.
    It does say that Strategic Bombers can be used with paratropers in an airborne attack though.



  • @Leatherneckinlv:

    The Balkan nations are also vital for Italy to succeed. They are more achievable. What Italy purchases in the beginning is also a key. Italy has to decide, Land or sea.Â

    This is true but mind you the Balkan Territories are victory conditions for Germany and if Italy does take those territories they do not count for Germany.



  • I don’t think Italy should waste resources attacking the Balkans.
    Italy has a short time window to achieve anything before being put on its back foot. I think they should bend all their strength to securing the Mediterranean. Taking Gibraltar, Cairo & Egypt before anything else.

    Neutral nations don’t get much stronger or move, they can wait, unless they are easy pickings. IPP’s can be picked up from an active enemy, it moves the net balance of IPP further away from Allies and to Axis then does attacking neutrals.

    Let Germany take the Balkans: they get the VP points, and they can lend-lease to Italy using the money they gain.
    There are more pressing things to do as Italy.



  • I agree with Jinx, I tend to Lend lease 1 unit to Spain with Italy for the first round to establish a firm control in Spain and save the rest so about a Artillery to Spain and keep the other 3 IPP then the next turn I have 10 IPP so I build a transport and also save the 2 IPP for the following turn to which I add a second transport … After 3 round Italy has 2 Transports and Starts building a Light Carrier as well as ground units I tend to time my attack with Germanys swoop into France and pounce on Gibraltar. Clean and flush out the med and see what nations are Vichy and which are free French … from there I build 1 Militia a turn in Gibraltar while reinforcing it with Ground units Eventually I send a AA over build a bunker and play the Come get me game with Italy while Germany is doing there work.



  • @Whitshadw:

    I agree with Jinx, I tend to Lend lease 1 unit to Spain with Italy for the first round to establish a firm control in Spain and save the rest so about a Artillery to Spain and keep the other 3 IPP then the next turn I have 10 IPP so I build a transport and also save the 2 IPP for the following turn to which I add a second transport … After 3 round Italy has 2 Transports and Starts building a Light Carrier as well as ground units I tend to time my attack with Germanys swoop into France and pounce on Gibraltar. Clean and flush out the med and see what nations are Vichy and which are free French … from there I build 1 Militia a turn in Gibraltar while reinforcing it with Ground units Eventually I send a AA over build a bunker and play the Come get me game with Italy while Germany is doing there work.

    Yeah, exactly.
    America is a little further from Gibraltar in G36 then G40, so a person has a little time to steel themselves for the attack. If the Americans head there vs. Cornwall (England), it becomes a little more threatening, projecting their threat all up and down the coast. But at least the Med is free.


  • 2017

    @Jinx1527:

    @Whitshadw:

    I agree with Jinx, I tend to Lend lease 1 unit to Spain with Italy for the first round to establish a firm control in Spain and save the rest so about a Artillery to Spain and keep the other 3 IPP then the next turn I have 10 IPP so I build a transport and also save the 2 IPP for the following turn to which I add a second transport … After 3 round Italy has 2 Transports and Starts building a Light Carrier as well as ground units I tend to time my attack with Germanys swoop into France and pounce on Gibraltar. Clean and flush out the med and see what nations are Vichy and which are free French … from there I build 1 Militia a turn in Gibraltar while reinforcing it with Ground units Eventually I send a AA over build a bunker and play the Come get me game with Italy while Germany is doing there work.

    Yeah, exactly.
    America is a little further from Gibraltar in G36 then G40, so a person has a little time to steel themselves for the attack. If the Americans head there vs. Cornwall (England), it becomes a little more threatening, projecting their threat all up and down the coast. But at least the Med is free.

    Agree with all of this. Typically I use Italian forces from africa via transport, For a fast reinforcement of Gibraltar. I  then build land units in Italy to gobble up all the little IPP teritorries around the medd. Balkans are for Germany only due to victory point. Next Italy will either build a minor factory in north africa, and crush the sueze. Or build a minor factory in Gibraltar. Depending upon Allied threat projection. This Gibraltar factory attracts attention to Gibraltar but allows the production of a unit and militia each turn, for defense or transport pickup to project Italian threat of landing into the Atlantic Ocean: either London, west Africa or South America. Especially if germany owns Marsailles and its shipyard rather than vichy. Germany can then place any ship in the medd. With Italy.
    This can allow for drawing forces south and easing german naval movement/defense in the north Atlantic


  • 2017

    Oops. Should have stated. Allow vichy to happen to disrupt the French navy then attack its capital with Germany. Italy can also use the Gibraltar factory to either reinforce or attack in Spain if required. And German lend lease to Italy is always helpful for a turn or 2 early on so Italy can get an edge in the medd.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    😮



  • @Rank:

    @Jinx1527:

    @Whitshadw:

    I agree with Jinx, I tend to Lend lease 1 unit to Spain with Italy for the first round to establish a firm control in Spain and save the rest so about a Artillery to Spain and keep the other 3 IPP then the next turn I have 10 IPP so I build a transport and also save the 2 IPP for the following turn to which I add a second transport … After 3 round Italy has 2 Transports and Starts building a Light Carrier as well as ground units I tend to time my attack with Germanys swoop into France and pounce on Gibraltar. Clean and flush out the med and see what nations are Vichy and which are free French … from there I build 1 Militia a turn in Gibraltar while reinforcing it with Ground units Eventually I send a AA over build a bunker and play the Come get me game with Italy while Germany is doing there work.

    Yeah, exactly.
    America is a little further from Gibraltar in G36 then G40, so a person has a little time to steel themselves for the attack. If the Americans head there vs. Cornwall (England), it becomes a little more threatening, projecting their threat all up and down the coast. But at least the Med is free.

    Agree with all of this. Typically I use Italian forces from africa via transport, For a fast reinforcement of Gibraltar. I  then build land units in Italy to gobble up all the little IPP teritorries around the medd. Balkans are for Germany only due to victory point. Next Italy will either build a minor factory in north africa, and crush the sueze. Or build a minor factory in Gibraltar. Depending upon Allied threat projection. This Gibraltar factory attracts attention to Gibraltar but allows the production of a unit and militia each turn, for defense or transport pickup to project Italian threat of landing into the Atlantic Ocean: either London, west Africa or South America. Especially if germany owns Marsailles and its shipyard rather than vichy. Germany can then place any ship in the medd. With Italy.
    This can allow for drawing forces south and easing german naval movement/defense in the north Atlantic

    Sounds like a fun strat but with building Militia now in Gibraltar once you erect a factory at that location you can no longer build Militia at that location, pg.53 "  Militia can be built at a non-factory site" once that factory pops up. Militia for that location can no longer be placed


  • 2017

    Interesting Whitshadw!
    I have reviewed the rules. Version 1.2 both page 51 militia and page 53 infantry (militia). States that they can be built in a non factory site, and do not require a factory. But do not say a factory eliminates their placement there. Gibraltar a captured land zone, maximum of 1 militia can be placed.
    A minor factory can produce 1unit so long as the ports and or rail conects it to the major factory at home. (Improved factories is an asset 3 units and no need for militia)

    However national reference sheets do state on the build chart for militia: Build in non-factory site. This may be HBG editor issues or you are correct. We had simply taken this as a reminder that factory was not required to build.
    Italy turin, germany stettin, soviet leningrad, anzac sydney, great Britain Liverpool, london, south africa and ottowa finally US San Francisco.
    This may be our source of confusion, all of these locations from the 1936 setups have militia in factory landzones. And japan has a bonus of building militia on the home island and okinawa for 1IPP each, if usa has 5 transports in the Pacific.

    Never even considered the presence of a factory as a block to build militia. Our group of 6 is fairly good at finding technicalities to spoke each other’s tires, amazed this never came up! Not sure if this is a house rule on our part.  I’ll need to search global faq…



  • It makes very little sense that a factory removes the possibility to place Militia in a territory.

    can be built <– it does not say must be built…



  • @Munck:

    It makes very little sense that a factory removes the possibility to place Militia in a territory.

    can be built <– it does not say must be built…

    it says neither it says “ï‚· Militia do not require a factory. The number of militia you may place in a zone is equal to the zone’s point value with a minimum of one militia per zone (even if the zone has no point value).  A captured land zone is always restricted to one militia per turn” on page-51 the first part states that factories are not required to build militia.

    the second part sits on page-53 Infantry (Militia): The militia unit represents various types of local or immobile defense forces.  These are often conscripted and poorly trained units such garrison armies, colonial militias and land similar units.  Militia can be built at a non-factory site.  Most Militia cannot move.  Militia have an Attack value of “1” in the rare case that they can be moved to Attack.

    in the center of the paragraph it states that " Militia can be built at a non-factory site."

    finally if you look at every single nations build chart under Militia it states “Build in non-factory site”  basically telling you not to build in a factory location.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017

    Great topic and thread. I’ll preface by saying I have not yet had the opportunity to play my game just yet, work gets in the way, and having someplace to keep the awesome, hulking map, set up for extended periods of time alludes us.

    I’ve done my best to familiarize myself with the game and rules though.

    Point here as it relates to this topic, is that the Spanish Civil War really does play into this strategy a lot as well when you think of it. If the goal for Italy/Mediterranean Axis is Gibraltar, doesn’t making sure the Nationalists win the Spanish Civil War take on a whole great importance? As you say in your original post, the amphibious attacking is brutally costly. Activation and alignment of an Axis Spain though would alleviate the need for an amphibious assault on the Rock.

    I’m sure that has not alluded you or anyone else here, that’s not my point. The point was that when discussing Italian objectives being Gibraltar, I think you need to add the Spanish Civil War into the wider spectrum of steps to attaining that goal.

    That just adds to the fun and intrigue of the game for me. Thinking that one thing, maybe seemingly not connected to an action, truly is in the grander scheme of strategy!



  • @Chris_Henry:

    Great topic and thread. I’ll preface by saying I have not yet had the opportunity to play my game just yet, work gets in the way, and having someplace to keep the awesome, hulking map, set up for extended periods of time alludes us.

    I’ve done my best to familiarize myself with the game and rules though.

    Point here as it relates to this topic, is that the Spanish Civil War really does play into this strategy a lot as well when you think of it. If the goal for Italy/Mediterranean Axis is Gibraltar, doesn’t making sure the Nationalists win the Spanish Civil War take on a whole great importance? As you say in your original post, the amphibious attacking is brutally costly. Activation and alignment of an Axis Spain though would alleviate the need for an amphibious assault on the Rock.

    I’m sure that has not alluded you or anyone else here, that’s not my point. The point was that when discussing Italian objectives being Gibraltar, I think you need to add the Spanish Civil War into the wider spectrum of steps to attaining that goal.

    That just adds to the fun and intrigue of the game for me. Thinking that one thing, maybe seemingly not connected to an action, truly is in the grander scheme of strategy!

    HBG has added " Spanish Civil War" expansion that further " excuse my pun" Expands on the war it self. For example if on the German players turn they roll a specific number on the random events chart one of the abilities is that the Nationals are able to invade Gibraltar it self. Very fun very interesting but ultimately it always boils down to DICE right?  I do hope you are able to play the game it is absolutely fun.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017

    @Whitshadw:

    HBG has added " Spanish Civil War" expansion that further " excuse my pun" Expands on the war it self. For example if on the German players turn they roll a specific number on the random events chart one of the abilities is that the Nationals are able to invade Gibraltar it self. Very fun very interesting but ultimately it always boils down to DICE right?  I do hope you are able to play the game it is absolutely fun.

    Yes, that’s right, I forgot all about those random events in the new Spanish Civil War Expansion! Even more intrigue to it! But also very true, the dice giveth and taketh away.

    Definitely hope to play soon! We’re working on some plywood and felt in order to actually fit it somewhere. And again, just got to find somewhere to keep it set up long periods of time! Once work quiets down a bit, I hope to push the issue a bit more though!



  • are we talking about global 1936 or 1939 which gamemode


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    Oh heaven for bid. It’s the 36 almighty game .



  • @SS:

    Oh heaven for bid. It’s the 36 almighty game .

    Seriously SS.
    You got a burr up your backside over this game. Just let it be.
    Why do you hate it?

    Also, if you dislike it so much, why do you even frequent this message board? I really don’t understand.  :?

    That being said, much of your posts; apart from your odd remarks, can actually be quite insightful and informative.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    OK Jimx.

    My beef with this game is not the great map or people that play it.

    It has to do with the map coming out and being told the 39 rules will be out in a month. ( also my group of 12 people will not play 36 do to 75 pages of rules, to many railroads and victory conditions with less value territories. Plus another group I talk to all the time will not play it and also some game designers I know. But thats all are opinions ). So be it.

    First off don’t come out with a game unless you have everything ready that goes with map. For me they came out with this game so they could get people to buy more expansion sets and keep coming out with them for the 3 different starting years for playing map.
    Fine, that’s the way they make money without designing new maps. Smart.

    Then they say we will not answer any questions that pertain to 36 map, rules and setups on this site.
    Now when you go to there site they don’t answer any questions. BS .

    Now people are coming here to site to get there questions answered for 36 game. Thats fine. But I feel people should make at least 1 donation to site for all the awesome info you get from this site. Plus other people for other games and the Triple A players too. IMO.

    IL is coming out with his new game and thats been taking a few years to perfect it so he doesn’t get jammed with a 1000 questions pertaining to game. That’s the correct way to do it. Granted you still will get a few questions on game.

    So Seriously, I will try my hardest not to make anymore comments towards this 36 game. HBG does make great pieces and so but don’t BS me.

    I will not reply to any comments to this message.   🙂



  • @Chris_Henry:

    Great topic and thread. I’ll preface by saying I have not yet had the opportunity to play my game just yet, work gets in the way, and having someplace to keep the awesome, hulking map, set up for extended periods of time alludes us.

    I’ve done my best to familiarize myself with the game and rules though.

    Point here as it relates to this topic, is that the Spanish Civil War really does play into this strategy a lot as well when you think of it. If the goal for Italy/Mediterranean Axis is Gibraltar, doesn’t making sure the Nationalists win the Spanish Civil War take on a whole great importance? As you say in your original post, the amphibious attacking is brutally costly. Activation and alignment of an Axis Spain though would alleviate the need for an amphibious assault on the Rock.

    I’m sure that has not alluded you or anyone else here, that’s not my point. The point was that when discussing Italian objectives being Gibraltar, I think you need to add the Spanish Civil War into the wider spectrum of steps to attaining that goal.

    That just adds to the fun and intrigue of the game for me. Thinking that one thing, maybe seemingly not connected to an action, truly is in the grander scheme of strategy!

    I’ve been thinking about what you wrote Chris_Henry, and I think you pose a really good thought!

    From the Italian perspective, the Nationalists should win the Spanish Civil War. But, should the Nationalists win the Civil War before Germany is at war with the Soviets, or win postpone winning it until after.

    If Nationalists win the CW before Barbarossa begins; Spain is secure from Allied invasion, barring Allied payment of a decent penalty. If Spain is relatively secure from invasion: any attack on Gibraltar must be with a deadly Amphibious Assault.

    If the Nationalists win the CW after Barbarossa begins; they Align to Germany, and now there are three different territories in which Allies can put a foothold, and therefore the Axis must protect to greater or lesser degree.

    One foothold, Leon-Castille is the best American foothold in Europe. Leon-Castille is within reach of American Naval Transports, and as a cherry on top, it also has a Port, that means it becomes the primary shuttle point to drop off American troops into Europe. From Washington & New York to Leon-Castille. The Atlantic Railway.

    From Leon-Castille the Allies can go south into the plains of Extremadura, from there to Gibraltar without amphibious assaults, from there…well…anywhere.
    From Leon-Castille the Allies can go east to Asturia-Vasconia and then into France.

    Its such a tempting target for the Allies that if the Italian Operation Key manages to fortify in Gibraltar, then it is almost worth it for the Americans to to declare war against Nationalist Spain, pay the penalty, and invade.

    Neutral Nationalist Spain is weak and cannot stop the Americans invading.
    Axis Nationalist Spain, with its Madrid Factory and leftovers from the CW, has just enough time to fortify itself a little. It also gives 2 additional IPP to Germany.

    It depends on the mentality of the Allies, will they pay a penalty of cash, or a penalty of blood. The Atlantic Railway, against an Axis Spain or Neutral Spain, or the Normandy Landing.


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