HBG GW39 v1.2: taking Rome

  • '13

    The Italian National Ref chart says that when Rome is taken, ALL Italian units are immediately removed from the board. No other major or minor power has this same wording for its surrender. This seemingly bizarre rule has just ended our game as there is clearly no recovery for the Axis.

    Is this correct? Must Italy devote such force to protect Rome that it can’t achieve its victory points for expansion? Help!

  • It is the same with Japan. They surrender if/when Tokyo is captured.

    Bizarre? Historically, it makes sense: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armistice_of_Cassibile

  • '13

    Sorry, but your answer does not make sense. The article you referenced doesn’t say “the Italian military all committed suicide after scuttling every ship in their navy”. Some Vichy-type rule of rolling for territories and navy or the A&A idea of taking Rome back the next turn can restore Italy as a major power makes much more sense.

  • The Italians have 1 go around and that’s it if Rome is captured then Italy is done, what I do is invest in a bunker and spend about 2 IPP a turn buying black shirts and mixed troops for Rome it’s easy to defend with a little help from Germany … a navel invasion would be a nightmare to take rome and while Italy is a soft target it’s like a trap if defended well.

    Basically if Rome falls then Italy is out if Germany Liberates Rome nothing happens.

  • If you wanted to, you could treat it the same way as Vichy/Free French. Some forces would join the Allies, some would be neutral, while others would continue on the Axis side.

    This late in the game, I’m not sure if it would do anything to improve the gameplay though.

    Who knows, HBG might release this as an expansion in the future.

  • '13

    Thanks for the ideas. We did discuss some Vichy-type alternatives. For our next game, though, I’ll just make sure that Rome is well-protected on the turn it attacks any neutral country. The British can’t declare war on Italy until Italy first attacks someone.

  • You could go ‘historical’ and say any troops North of Rome in Europe stay ‘axis’ or turn German, while everything South of Europe or in Africa (assuming there are still some there) are removed. Roll for any surviving ships like you do for Vichy.

  • '13

    Converting Italian units into German units likely ends the game. Say Rome is retaken 2 turns later. It restores Italy as a power but they just don’t get enough income to ever recover as a major power. Doing Vichy-type rolls for naval units makes it worse: 2 turns of their entire wartime income to replace one battleship.

    Still, your post gave me an idea that is partly ‘historical’ and partly for game balance. Implement the A&A rule of 1 turn to take Rome back without penalty. After that, units in Europe and all navy become German controlled. To give Italy any chance, those surviving naval units must be saved. Territories in Europe become German aligned. All other Italian territories/units become neutral. If Rome is ever liberated, Italy can align those territories by landing troops. I think that will keep the game going and still allow Italy to achieve some victory points.

  • Italy has one job, do not lose Rome. If Italy can hold on to Albania to get a VP that is gravy.

    Historically Italy was dragged into the war with little support. When Rome fell Italy quickly surrendered. Troops in the north (Turin space on the GW36 board) remained with Germany while the rest surrendered. In fact 55,000 Italy would join the Co-Belligerent Army and fight with the Allies along with 350,000 italian partisans. I would add a rule that if German forces are in Turn then Italian forces in Turn convert to German when Italy surrenders.

  • '13

    Totally agree Italy must not lose Rome, especially with the current rule of losing all Italian units. But does this reduce the flexibility that Italy has to pursue different strategies? If so, that may provide the Allies with a strategic advantage in the Mediterranean.

  • Allies have a strategic advantage in the Med. The US and UK are both naval powers in a theater dominated by navies. Italy should not have a great deal of flexibility, at least following a historical perspective. Italy entered the war prior to having its industry prepared and military unready for modern conflict. The Axis should have strength and flexibility where they are strong (Germany and Japan) and mitigate their disadvantages where they are weak (Italy).

  • '13

    Nicely put! You hit the nail on the head from a historical perspective.

    When we were on our A&A G40 kick, no one ever wanted to play Russia so we were forced to rotate. I would hate to see Italy become the new Russia. Then again, unless you can get 6 people to play it doesn’t matter  😄

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