Strategy for Japan and how long does it take to drive to moscow.


  • If you buy IC in India you buy IC in sinkiang as well, there is no middle ground in that, India IC alone is more foolish than sinkiang alone.

    And turn 3 would see 7inf 3arm 3figs + 3-4 soviet inf 1fig + US 1 fig

    So it would be more like 11inf 3arm 4-5 figs in India and if possible leave a ship in india coast to prevent support fire. Some lucky AA rolls could decide that battle for UK win, but most likely only very lucky rolls on dices could keep it from falling. But that amount what you are throwing to India is really hard to stop, maybe strafing with the UK french indo-china. UK turn 2 would be taking FIC for itself, because all japan troops are in China.

    I have been messing with the idea of attacking FIC on UK1 3inf 1fig, that would put some pressure on J1 more if you can succeed in it.


  • I have tried the strategy that you guys keep talking about, the having trannies in J1 (thats the sea zone beetween Japan and Manchuria correct?)  Although that strategy helps out the mainland asia cause, it takes away from the war in the pacific against the US.  One game I did succeed in sending troops to Asia slowly while I concentrated 80% of my IPCs to buying naval units.  I did very well in that game until my Germany fell.  I just need to find a way to break the Soviet, British, and American lines in Asia.


  • Actually, SZ60 is the one on the Pacific side of Japan that borders directly to Bury…  Keeps your whole fleet in a forward position to defend against US while still ferrying troops.


  • Yeah you have your transports on the wrong side of Japan lol.


  • A couple of extra points to consider:

    You can try something which I call “fast-hopping.” That is, don’t use your initial Japan tranport to offload into Buryatia; instead send it to french indochina with 1 inf 1 tank. On turn 2, take Madagascar. On turn 3, take South Africa. Then you can work your ways upward with that tank blitzing. To compliment this maneuver, start with 3 tran 2 inf as your purchase, and on turn 2 send 1 transport to indochina, and then on turn 3 take Australia with that transport. That means by turn 3 you have taken Madagascar, South Africa, and Australia, which is 5 IPCs from the UK! Not a bad haul, in addition to India probably.

    Also consider lending your German buddy your Japanese fighters. In a KGF game, one of the weakpoints of Germany is Egypt. The Allies are destined to retake Africa unless Germany tries too hard or has lucky dice. On turn 2 usually the Allies drop around a total of 4 inf, 2 art, 3 arm into Africa, and have fighters floating around. Germany has to give up Africa soon or is just wasting units defending Egypt.

    Now the trick here is to fly most, if not all, of your fighters to Egypt on turn 2-3! Suddenly that 2 inf 2 art sitting in Egypt has a ton of backbone to it. It will be very improbable for the Allies to take your force out there unless they send additional land troops (takes a couple of turns to reach Egypt) or lots of fighters (less protection for their navy, less flexibility down in Africa). Hopefully the Germans landed 1 tank into Egypt on turn 2 in anticipation of this timely backup, so that it can blitz freely into the heart of Africa while the med transport brings more inf to reinforce Egypt. Suddenly Egypt is a hard point which the Allies did not expect at all, and lots of Africa is going to fall unless they really do something about it.

    To fly your fighters there in a timely fashion is not difficult. You should/might have a battleship + loaded carrier off of Egypt after killing the UK fleet on the first round. That’s 2 fighters that are going to Egypt to help your buddy out. After your first round attack on China, land 2 fighters into Manchuria. From here, they can reach Egypt! So you have 4 fighters in Egypt on turn 2, which is exactly when the Allies land there. This means they will be very loathe to try to blitz to Egypt on turn 3, and have to proceed very slowly into Africa at this point. The other two fighters you have might be dead or out somewhere towards the east because you may have wished to attack Pearl Harbor or at least defend your SZ60 navy. That’s ok, on turn 2 you can sail them to Manchuria if you feel you are safe, then on turn 3 you can join them up in Egypt for a massive defensive force there. A 1-2 punch by the UK/US is going to be very difficult as their piecemeal separate forces are going to get chewed up in one round by that many fighters and some infantry from Germany to stiffen it up.

    The problem of course is that you have 6 less fighters to push against Russia. This is significant, but I think it’s worth the loss. Russia may push back a little bit or be able to hold his territories for a little longer than usual, but by and large you still have lots of land troops coming in and experience nothing more than 1 turn of setback while you wait for tanks/infantry to shore up your frontlines. The economic and logistics problems you cause in Africa, however, is priceless!

    And at any time feel free to send your 1 inf 1 tank from fast-hopping up into Egypt to stiffen it up some more while you let your German buddy grab the IPCs, or simply blitz Africa while Germany sits there. You don’t have to over-reinforce Egypt with German equipment, so don’t send too much as Germany won’t be able to push back into Libya without a large investment anyways.

    And when you feel it’s time, you can always simply just release your 6 fighters from Egypt to cause problems in Caucasus or get ready for a Moscow assault, or if Germany happens to be in extremely dire straits, then off to defend Germany.

    Who says there’s no teamwork for the Axis?  :mrgreen:


  • @ShredZ:

    Russians stacking in Bury on R1 are dead Russians. Thats the perfect opportunity to walk all over north Russia uncomtested.

    My play group used to stack everything in Bury until it consistantly got wasted on J1 - now its a general rule that we pull everything back.

    I’m curious, how did you go about destroying everything in Bury? Did you not hit Pearl or China then?


  • Pearl Ultra Light allows this to be done, pretty easilly actually.

  • 2007 AAR League

    And still take China


  • Yep, and you might even get India… but ONLY if it was left vacant.


  • I see how this is possible, but only if the Brit fighter was not sent to sink the Jap sub and reinforce pearl. If that fighter does get the sub and lands on the pearl carrier, what would you do then? I suppose you could do the same thing, but your pearl attack would involve a significant amount of risk.


  • Just a shuffling of forces, and you would probably have 1-2 fewer INF alive in China afterwards.  But China still falls, and the Pearl Fleet (with bonus death of UK FIG) is killed.


  • Japan in a KGF situation can become nearly unstoppable if it is run with precision.

    The goal is to go through Persia, as it is the key to unlocking Russia, it dominates the coast of Africa, and it stops any allied reinforcements from coming through the Middle East to Russia’s relief.

    3 transports J1, IC in F Indo on J2, and an IC in India as soon as a sustainable 42 is reached. Sprinkle in 1-2 more transports, and somewhere between turn 5 and 7 (based on allies’ opening moves to slow Japan) the following Yellow Machine should be unveiled:

    One transport in SZ60.

    One transport in SZ61.

    Two transports in SZ36.

    One to two transports in SZ 34, along with the rest of the Japanese navy and between 2 and 4 fighters parked on carriers.

    Each round 8 infantry are placed on Japan. Armor is placed in French Indo, the rest in India (as a general rule of thumb), as both builds will then be able to reach Persia on the following round.

    The Japanese Machine operates like this:

    Each round the single transports in SZ60 and SZ61 pick up 2 infantry each and drop them in F Indo. The two transports in F Indo split and go to SZ60 and SZ61, each picking up 2 infantry and dropping them in Buryatia and Manchuria, respectively. 3 units are built in F Indo, and 3 units are built in India. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

    The reasoning is as follows- the northern backdoor of Russia is necessary to take for economic reasons, and to keep Russia from feeling comfortable. This can be accomplished with 2 infantry in an unending flow, supported by aircraft as necessary. If Russia/ allies make a push back at Japan in the north, no big deal- IPC values are low, and you just keep falling back toward your wheelhouse.

    The central path through China is necessary to take for economic/ pressure producing reasons as well, but it is American economy, and if Russian troops are used to continually push in that direction, it is of little direct boon to Russia. The key again is a steady flow of infantry, 2-3 at a time from Manchuria and F Indo. Again, air power is used to continue to make small scale attacks in Evenki, Novo, and Kazahk.

    The southern route is where the heavy lifting occurs. We all know how uncomfortable things become for Russia when Japan is rooted in Persia. It should be the single- minded goal, and should be there for the taking considering the air power and double Battleship bombardment capacity that Japan has at its disposal. Infantry/ artillery placed in India are backed up by armor placed in F Indo, with the whole structure underpinned by a steady, consistent flow of infantry over the top, through the middle, and more heavily through the southern path, all simultaneously. Russia will have its hands full.

    Once Persia is taken and held, Japanese naval power can raid the coast of Africa, but it must be done with minimal troops, as the goal is Russia. Do not allow any allied reinforcements in that theater to distract you from the main goal, as Africa is a sideshow.

    Eventually being rooted in Persia becomes an opportunity to become rooted in Kazahk, which means the Caucasus can be yours.

    A quick review… 2 infantry per round over the north through Buryatia, 2-3 infantry per round up the gut via Manchuria/ F Indo, and 9-10 mixed units per round along the southern route through F Indo/ India and on into Persia. From there let your imagination do the rest.

    The key to this strategy is Germany. If Germany plays it safe this will not work, as allied reinforcements will flow through Norway/ Karelia/ Archangel into Russia and do the bloody work in Russia’s place. Russia must be isolated, which means that Germany has to be super-aggressive in the following order- kill everything colored brown until allied landings force you to attack tan and green, and then kill as many forces as they hit the beaches as possible, so they never show up in Russia to help out against Japan. Leave France lightly defended, and invite Britain to engage in a trading war in France. The more allied units that die this way the better. If allied armies begin to stack, and pool, all bets are off.

    It goes without saying that this is just a template and general strategy, and game realities can change things. But try it and see if you like it…


  • No one has noticed the age on this thread?

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Nukchebi0:

    No one has noticed the age on this thread?

    Oh, hun, you don’t honestly think that new users that come here are going to check dates, do you?  They’re going to find a thread on their topic and ask - if we’re lucky.  If not, they start a new thread and then Switch, Janus, Mech and a few others are going to almost get into a fist-fight over a topic we let die ages past.

    BTW, I do concur.  There is no purpose of stacking Buryatia.  I used to do it in hopes of detering an attack and forcing Japan to leave something in Manchuria.  But then I learned how lightly I had to hit Pearl.

    3 Fighters, 1 Bomber, 1 Destroyer, 1 Submarine is all you need.  That leaves 2 fighters for China and 1 fighter for something else (probably Buryatia.)  You have 2 transports and a battleship to send in too.

    6 Infantry just isn’t going to beat 2 infnatry, 1 artillery, 1 armor, 1 battleship and 1 fighter (though I’d probably make it two fighters and drop one from china.)


  • @ncscswitch:

    Just a shuffling of forces, and you would probably have 1-2 fewer INF alive in China afterwards.  But China still falls, and the Pearl Fleet (with bonus death of UK FIG) is killed.

    All right, I’ve kind of played around with this and I conceed that this is indeed could work; however, there is one thing that maybe over-looked or somebody can correct me on this. Assuming the UK fig hits the sub and goes to Pearl, then you have to send 3fig, 1bom, and 1 des. I ran the numbers on Frood and with any less planes you’re hoping for a miracle. That still leaves you with enough air, ground, and navy to hit China and Bury. I figure 5 inf, 1fig vs. China and 3 inf, 1arm 1bb shot, and 2 fig vs. Bury. Now, assuming the UK went hard against your Kwan Tran and went Des and AC and maybe even tran, you really only have your BB and AC to attack it. I haven’t ever played a game where Bury, China, and Pearl were all hit on the first turn. Assuming this is done, I’d have to say the best move would be to block the brit fleet and hit it next turn. Are there any risks associated to this that Im overlooking?


  • @Hauptmann-Jager:

    @ncscswitch:

    Just a shuffling of forces, and you would probably have 1-2 fewer INF alive in China afterwards.  But China still falls, and the Pearl Fleet (with bonus death of UK FIG) is killed.

    All right, I’ve kind of played around with this and I conceed that this is indeed could work; however, there is one thing that maybe over-looked or somebody can correct me on this. Assuming the UK fig hits the sub and goes to Pearl, then you have to send 3fig, 1bom, and 1 des. I ran the numbers on Frood and with any less planes you’re hoping for a miracle. That still leaves you with enough air, ground, and navy to hit China and Bury. I figure 5 inf, 1fig vs. China and 3 inf, 1arm 1bb shot, and 2 fig vs. Bury. Now, assuming the UK went hard against your Kwan Tran and went Des and AC and maybe even tran, you really only have your BB and AC to attack it. I haven’t ever played a game where Bury, China, and Pearl were all hit on the first turn. Assuming this is done, I’d have to say the best move would be to block the brit fleet and hit it next turn. Are there any risks associated to this that Im overlooking?

    Key phrase:

    “I haven’t ever played a game where Bury, China, and Pearl were all hit on the first turn.”

    My approach to this with Japan is to leave Burytia alone.  I can kill every Russian unit on the coast on Japan’s second turn.

    Block what Brit fleet?


  • Key phrase:

    "I haven’t ever played a game where Bury, China, and Pearl were all hit on the first turn.

    Harsh!

    Well, if you took time to read the thread you’d see that Switch said Bury, China, and Pearl could all be done. I was skeptical, but now I believe him. However, I was curious as to the UK des, and AC and possible tran that could be used to kill the Kwan tran. Thats the fleet I was talking about  😉


  • @Hauptmann-Jager:

    Key phrase:

    "I haven’t ever played a game where Bury, China, and Pearl were all hit on the first turn.

    Harsh!

    Well, if you took time to read the thread you’d see that Switch said Bury, China, and Pearl could all be done. I was skeptical, but now I believe him. However, I was curious as to the UK des, and AC and possible tran that could be used to kill the Kwan tran. Thats the fleet I was talking about  😉

    1.  I do not say you should believe me.  I do not say you should believe Switch.  I say you should believe in yourself, in true friends, and in God.  There are those that believe in beer.  I am one of them.  Draw your own conclusions.

    2.  I can’t read.  So much for your “read the thread” comment.  I would think you could be more sensitive about my disability.

    3.  I am supposing 6 inf in Burytia.  If there is nothing in Burytia, you don’t need to send a lot of attackers, which makes “attacking Bury/China/Pearl” very simple.

    4.  If Burytia has a lot, I will probably try to smoke China and Pearl by sending in massive superior numbers.  With three transports built, I will have no problem beating the crap out of Manchuria and Burytia.  Any Russian units on the coast die on J2.

    5.  The sole exception is if UK consolidated their naval units in the Indian Ocean.  If the UK is allowed to keep a large Indian Ocean fleet for the start of UK2, it can mean a quick end for Japan; US fleet elements claim an island and UK carrier, destroyer, transport, sub move in to reinforce.  In that case, I may hit the UK fleet and Asia quick and hard.


  • oh yeah, the Brit fleet.

    Japs go after Brits.  Assume they get 3 transport 1 tank.

    Sea zone east of Japan has battleship and 4 transports.  (Assume Kwangtung transport killed)  The most UK will have available to attack that is transport, destroyer, carrier, fighter, and bomber on UK2.

    If UK used its air up for the UK turn (that is, leaving them out of threatening range of Japan’s navy, very possible), what actually threatens that Jap battleship and 4 transports is the UK carrier and destroyer.  That’s fine.  Japan has a free hit, and after that, inexpensive transports die.

    If UK moved its transport, fighter, and bomber east to threaten Japan’s sea zones, that leaves immediate holes in UK’s game, key being Anglo-Egypt.  This creates its own set of problems for UK.  Japan is still threatened, but Japan has plenty of ways of dealing with that threat, one of which involves leaving Pearl Harbor alone to allow more Japanese units to wipe out the UK fleet.

    So that addresses the question of 1) splitting the UK fleet, and 2) using the UK fleet aggressively early.  The third case, unification of the UK fleet southwest of Australia (or thereabouts) also leaves UK with a set of problems, but is also addressable by Japan.  Since that UK move is not immediately threatening, Japan can carry out Pearl, but Japan will have to race back to deal with UK, which can be a real pain if UK fighters flew east from London.


  • You folks have basically worked this out, but to summarize:
    On Round 1, all of the combat except Pearl is in Japan’s sphere of influence (and Pearl is in both Japan and USA spehere).
    That means that if Russia or UK come into that area, they are basically dead.  They cannot be reinforced, and after the J1 build, combat, and NCM’s, they are not going to do any more real damage to Japan.

    Let the DST/AC live in SZ59 if you don;t want to risk your SZ37 ships (though you have an 81% chance to kill that mini fleet)
    Pearl dies.
    China falls.
    Bury Falls.

    That leaves the Russians with no appreciable force east of Moscow
    The UK without a significant fleet presence in the Pacific
    USA with only 3 ships in the Pacific (incl the DST off Panama)

    Meanwhile, Japan has just set up to start a non-stop flow of forces to Asia that will begin in earnest on J2, and the Allies cannot move to even THINK about slowing/stopping that flow for 2 turns, which means Japan has time to prepare for it if the Allies do attempt KJF.

    The only question that preceeds J1 in Asia and the Pacific is:
    How much effort and resource do the Allies want to put into trying to slow down Japan?
    And it is VERY expensive to try to slow Japan down in J1 and J2…

  • 2007 AAR League

    Personally, the best option is just to leave the Russians alone in Bury. They aren’t much of a threat. If they stay put, they die. If they advance to Manchuria, they gain 3 IPC’s and then they die. If they advance 1 inf to Manchuria and pull the rest back to Yakut, they trade an infantry for 3 IPC’s and if they are lucky they kill a Japanese infantry for their effort.

    All of those options are far more acceptable to me than risking not only peripheral naval units but also aircraft. Leaving the Russian’s alone doesn’t hurt much at all, but going into sz52 with less than overwhelming force can ruin Japan’s day. And it will happen often enough.

  • 2007 AAR League

    @Jennifer:

    6 Infantry just isn’t going to beat 2 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 armor, 1 battleship and 1 fighter

    Wanna bet? Been there, done that.


  • 43% of the time, the 6 INF WILL win that fight…

  • 2007 AAR League

    And it’s bad enough that you’ll be sacrificing 1/3 of what Japan starts with on mainland Asia but it’s also heartbreaking to watch the armor die because you can’t retreat it from the battle if it goes badly.


  • to the orginial question how long does it take to drive to moscow the answer is 4660 miles or anywhere from 50 to 78 horurs depending on how fast you drive.  http://www.indo.com/cgi-bin/dist/place2=moscow%2C+russia?place1=tokyo%2C+japan

    but i say you should slways attack buryatia if russia moves there unless you can better use those battleships. most of the time you should attack.

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