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Pacific Lion–-new crazy german strategy



  • I don’t think this is a strategy for everyday use…but i’m deep into my first game and it’s working as designed. The strategy is viable, especially if your opponents act in a somewhat predictable fashion.
    Premise…both sides are global game are balanced. Germany is powerful enough to take the battle to the allies…what if Germany and Italy eventually turtled and took a fleet of troops out past the suez and help Japan…Japan also never has had the luxury of having a can opener. Here are the broad strokes…(with a few specifics thrown in)
    G1 purchase 3 mechs (w. Germany) 6 infantry (Berlin)…this keeps sea lion in play and a good UK player will turtle until they know your true intention. take out as much navy as practical. Take out Paris (don’t commit the mech’s from western Germany). via transport bring an artillery and infantry to Finland to feint (with more guys from Norway). Take Yugo in force but have Romania take Bulgaria. Mechs from W Germany go to Yugoslavia. mechs need to eventually make it to Greece then turkey.
    G2 purchase a major factory “signaling” Barbarossa and making Russia turtle as normal(place in Romania)—save the balance-- German air takes out British carrier off Italy (don’t have Italy scramble in defense on I1), take other navy targets of opportunity. take Greece in force (mechs/tanks from Yugo and all troops in Bulgaria) and any other parts of France that Italy didn’t take (with mechs from W Germany). Maybe 2 more infantry up to Norway/Finland. keep marching infantry to romania
    G3 UK navy is cleared or close to cleared…Russia is turtling. purchase 7 transports, air craft carrier, and 2 destroyers for the black sea. attack turkey from Greece. Attack spain from france…attack Sweden from Finland Norway. In my game all my air was in southern Italy with airbase…1 fighter to spain, 2 air to navy, 2 strategic bombers to Sweden, the balance went to turkey, landing two air on the carrier. the balance in Greece. technically the Turkish straits (turkey) shields the navy from any naval ships. distance and Russia being neutral takes away landing spots for any air reprisals. My opponent did have his Strategic bomber in Malta so that was a threat…but Italy took care of it.
    I3 steps to Alexandria in force to let air from Greece have a landing spot. (Albania tank should be in Greece on I2, so they can blitz/non combat thru turkey and get Iraqi oil and troops on i3). Italian air takes out naval blockers from cairo.
    G4 purchase max defense…navy loads up and slips out of black sea to hit cairo. take gibraltor if you don’t already have it. Play up that you can still swing back and take caucuses to maybe slow down the Russian onslaught/counterpunch (suez can be opened by 1 transport hitting Jordan…or I4 attack, from Iraq with or without tank and mech from Alexandria moving through german controlled cairo).
    G5 purchase max defense(maybe a few artillery mixed in)…slip through suez and take east Persia.
    G6/G7 max defense…coordinate with Japan to hit Calcutta. My game we wanted Japan to hit first (due to game conditions), uk and Russia built bombers to attack the german fleet from Moscow and south Africa…I took the small island off india so my aircraft carrier could take a hit and my air could land. Japanese carriers joined me and UK choose not to attack. took out three Russian bombers with only 1 hit to my carrier!
    America must now defend both Sydney and Honolulu. With Germany providing a can opener…in my game there was a DOW on J1, this helped Japan get a jump start on their economy. they crippled Calcutta with bombing raids, taking land quickly and convoy raids. If you have Germany up to 15+ infantry per turn and Italy providing another 10 infantry or so, that’s a lot of defense for the allies to take out…national objectives and money from neutral territories help keep G/I income up for quite a while…Russia makes and obscene amount of cash…but the goal is hold out long enough for Japan to race to victory. This idea sells out that we will not win on the Europe board and puts all of our hopes into the pacific…My current game that is paused…i have my german fleet with full load in india, Japan has 2 escorting carriers fully loaded and three fully loaded transports. 3 industries on the mainland…plus 4 fully loaded carriers in Tokyo. Italy recaptured Paris…taking in 41 income net, but is losing Africa now and the med is now opened for allies to enter. Germany has a few territories in Europe but 95% of the Europe force is defending in Berlin with limited counter attacks as necessary.



  • simpler:
    Version 1: supprise;

    G1, buy 2 bombers
    G2, buy 5-6 bombers.
    G3, land all bombers in Rumania, ukraine. (to support your barbarossa)

    G4, fly your 10 hombers to yunan (which japan holds).

    Version 2:
    G1 buy 2 bombers
    G2 Buy 5-6 bombers, land your 4 bombers in rumania.
    G3, fly 4 bombers yunan
    G4, fly 6 more bombers to yunan.

    US can no longer have any blockers. you can still coordinate with japan on india., it also costs a lot less than your 10 ships and major IC that you dont really use.



  • But your basicaly throwing away any chance of winning in europe to get a little better chance of winning in the pacific.

    The US can spend 100% on the pacific and UK can start reinforcing india from the middle east while russia takes care of germany and italy.



  • fair critiques…but reinforcing india from the middle east isn’t too viable when German troops crush through turkey and overwhelm cairo. In our game, Calcutta was effectively purchasing 0-2 units per turn.


  • 2018 2017

    Axis Dark Skies is strong.  The Axis advantage is pretty large, and it gets bigger when all 3 axis can concentrate the same targets.

    Designing novel devastating strategies for the Axis is, as a result, pretty easy.

    The only flaw in your overall idea is that except India, which Japan can take care of by itself, there is nothing to SBR in Asia.  If you did this in reverse, and bought Japanese Bombers and fly them over/land them in/shuttle bomb them/ to Romania, they can cripple Moscow and the Russian Factories (and destroy all blockers) while Germany takes care of the land forces.  If they don’t get killed doing that, they can bomb UK into submission (though Italy and Germany can also do that just fine by themselves while destroying Russia at the same time).  You only need 1 german and 1 Italian bomber in Japan to kill screens/blockers both before and after the US turn.

    This is why the average bid is above 30+…and I would still try to bid to play the Axis.



  • Even getting 1 or 2 bombers over to the Pacific can be a game changer for that theater.  You still have enough resources left over to get into the oil fields or potentially take Moscow if the Allies don’t play smartly.  The bombers can be used against UK fleet the first round, used a bit during G2 turn and land in Romania, and then be in Yunnan on G3.  That puts them in position for critical can opening missions starting on the important fourth turn.



  • interesting comments from everyone…keep them coming. what i can say is that this is the most interesting game we’ve all played (in years…everyone is out of their comfort zone) and everything I’ve planned is working like clockwork. I’m not so sure Calcutta would have fallen without German aid. R1 declaration of war by sending a tank and mech to slow down and gum up the works in china. Doing just this doesn’t trigger Mongolia…also, i didn’t post this as a “go to” strategy, just a wrinkle for those bold enough to attempt. The more wrinkles you have the harder it is for your opponent to plan…

    i have one more trick to share…once we resume play…



  • Sending a few fast moving Russian units on R1 into China is relatively common in League matches before the Balanced Mod changed the bonuses.  You can also have a fighter and tac in position to help out if needed, or return back to Moscow on R2 if not needed.  Those extra units can be game changing in Yunnan.  Doing better in the Pacific theaters then allows the USA spending to become more focused on the European theater.



  • @taamvan:

    Axis Dark Skies is strong.   The Axis advantage is pretty large, and it gets bigger when all 3 axis can concentrate the same targets.

    Designing novel devastating strategies for the Axis is, as a result, pretty easy.

    The only flaw in your overall idea is that except India, which Japan can take care of by itself, there is nothing to SBR in Asia.   If you did this in reverse, and bought Japanese Bombers and fly them over/land them in/shuttle bomb them/ to Romania, they can cripple Moscow and the Russian Factories (and destroy all blockers) while Germany takes care of the land forces.   If they don’t get killed doing that, they can bomb UK into submission (though Italy and Germany can also do that just fine by themselves while destroying Russia at the same time).  You only need 1 german and 1 Italian bomber in Japan to kill screens/blockers both before and after the US turn.

    This is why the average bid is above 30+…and I would still try to bid to play the Axis.

    The bigest axis advantage is initiative and loads of strategies out there to use.
    When starting axis you can just open 1 of the strategies on this forum and use that as your turn 1-2-3 plan, when playing allies well you are on your own.

    This is also reflected by the state of italy after round 1. Italy is the only axis that cannot dictate the pace and as such there are no strategies for italy available.

    Personaly i dont see how this strat would work, US can focus 100% on japan with this, and well who cares about blockers when your fleet is strong enough to survive an attack.


  • 2017

    When I play UK, usually I take Iraq on UK2. So, there’s no “Iraqi” oil for Italy on I3. Interesting idea for getting Egypt. Beyond that, I can’t imagine the investment being worth the squeeze.

    I think the Russian player would have to be smart enough to know it’s time to start purchasing tanks. UK would be free to purchase an IC in Egypt on UK2 and make purchases for the S. Africa IC.

    Buying a major IC (30 IPCs), plus 7 transports (49 IPCs), to move units, means more than a whole turns purchase less for Barbarossa or Sea Lion. Russia would over power Germany in no time.

    Lastly, I think these strategies might be fun to play or try, but as far as winning the game, ie…capturing capitals, it’s hard to imagine them working out favorable for the Axis.



  • @shadowhawk…the plan works because of two elements…one is surprise. Remember it’s not a every game strategy. number two, by the time the allies figure it out, it’s really about positioning and a race for the last victory city. America can outspend Japan, but not by much late game. they must get over to defend both Sydney AND Honolulu. obviously Hawaii is easier…but Sydney is quite a distance.

    “All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.”
    ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War


  • 2018 2017

    The german bombers alone would not be enough to change that consideration until the US is right on top of you.  The bombers take time to produce and then 2+ turns to fly into attack position.

    Shadow is correct;  using this as your sole gambit is probably not a great idea.  I wasn’t suggesting the reverse (Japan buys ONLY SB–-> Germany) as a great plan either.

    Probably better ideas are

    1. with or without an airbase, get 1+ German and Italian bombers over to the east to help SBR or kill blockers
    2. once China is nearly dead, and Russia is on the ropes, you can SBR all his factories with Japanese flyovers both before (ger) and after (japan) he repairs.  This is devastating and you can dedicate 1-2 bombers not focus on them exclusively

    “Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near”

    awesome quote, the challenge in AxA is that a “surprise” (gambit) plays out over several hours and openly in front of several opponents;  you may do something unexpected but the game is more reactionary than based on real surprise.    He can see all your dispositions;  there is no fog of war.  The real clench is therefore to force your opponent to be hyper-conservative in order to defend from every possibility, or to make him make rash but necessary attacks (trading time for risk) that cost him in the long run.



  • I wouldn’t be playing very conservatively if I see Germany buying a big fleet in the Med.  I would know that Egpyt is going down in flames but Russia could mostly fend off the Axis powers for a long time. Russia would purchase relatively high amounts of fast movers so that it can respond to either the Middle East or western front.  Meanwhile USA could be spending a higher fraction of the income in the Pacific, knowing that victory in Europe will not be imminent any time soon.  This gambit isn’t too scary IMHO.



  • Not that it matters…but the last part of the gambit is a naval base in the money islands to hit sydney in 2 turns. A 1-2 punch from both Germany and Japan. Those 2 turns it takes to get to Sydney, America can’t reach to defend with any new purchases. Japan can also threaten Hawaii with new purchases requiring America to cover both. In an infinite timelines America outspends japan…in the reality of the game they can be out of position to respond properly. Yes Russia can grow and get aggressive but both Germany and Italy are max defense. They can hold out.


  • TripleA

    I dont have problems taking India as Japan unless some serious bad dice hit me. If USA isn’t buying units for the pacific, yeah you can fly german bombers to Asia to act as a can opener….  this is usually not necessary because you can just take the island that is above hawaii… it has an airbase to boot with it.



  • As the U.S. I would counter this move by building a naval base and two factories in Argentina/Chile three turns after you hit the neutrals. At a cost of 39 IPC’s (a little over half a turn of money) I now have the ability to get navy to you a turn sooner and develop a two step shuck to get ground units into Southeast Asia and the money islands. This is why one of my 11 conclusions on the other thread was that the neutral crush would never work as a strategy for the Axis powers.

    I’m afraid to say the Pacific Lion may be doomed as a strategy except against players who haven’t seen or thought about this before.


  • 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    I remember a game where soulblighter suprised me by making a mad rush on Egypt with luftwaffe supporting Italy.  On G1 he took South France, G2 he built 3 carriers, G4 the fleet moved to Egypt, G5 they were out into the Indian Ocean, and from there he just pushed me back to Hawaii and then Japan got India and Hawaii. It was well timed and creative.



  • That sounds like a better plan. You can also get a factory in Greece if you want your Indian Ocean fleet to have a lot of ships / transports. Maybe this is the real “Pacific Lion”.



  • @variance:

    I remember a game where soulblighter suprised me by making a mad rush on Egypt with luftwaffe supporting Italy.  On G1 he took South France, G2 he built 3 carriers, G4 the fleet moved to Egypt, G5 they were out into the Indian Ocean, and from there he just pushed me back to Hawaii and then Japan got India and Hawaii. It was well timed and creative.

    Well, there are 3 Top level German plans to start the war.

    #1 Go all in on Sea Lion, you are invading.
    #2 Set up for a G2 or G3 Russian Invasion, this would include a sea lion fake.
    #3 Go all in on the Med. This would include Germany taking the S. France factory or Building one in Greece or Yugo. This usually means a G4 invasion of Russia.

    Option #3 does not get much “play” because it is a slow play plan of attack. Most Germany strategies revolve around a quick strike at Russia and knocking them out before G8.

    Option #3 is the most optimal plan of attack IF you are going for a Axis victory in the long term, Turn 10-14. Germany sweeps into the middle east, forms a navy to support the invasion of India, collects around 25+ IPC in NO’s in the middle east and Cacuss and crush Moscow from the south.

    There is big upside also to option #3. That means Italy gets full support from Germany and usually will get all its NO’s also and be pumping out 25+ IPC a turn themselves. A very strong italy coupled with a crushing Germany economy never leads to bad things for the Axis powers and usually a Turn 8-10 concession speech from Chamberland.

    it would be interesting to see how the famous UK Middle Earth plan of attack works out with a strong Italy and a full effort from Germany pushing in the Middle East.


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