Japan vs. Russia
Over on Young Grasshopper’s Custom Map Project thread there is a long discussion on how to discourage Japan from attacking Russia. Many suggestions have been put forward and some of them very good. I like the idea of changing the value of territories for this new map, but for people who have no room in the budget or simply have no intention of using a new map I will put forth this simple solution here instead of distracting the discussion of the new map.
My idea is to issue a stiff penalty for attacking Russia. The Mongolian Rule is not harsh enough to dissuade some players and it doesn’t address the notion of attacking Russia from China by the Japanese. Even though this is a game and is intended to possibly rewrite history the idea of Japan being physically able to march through Siberia or China all the way to Moscow is almost impossible.
I propose the “Gross Violation of History Rule”.
If Japan violates it’s non-aggression pact with Russia, then at the end of the Japanese turn the Russian player will immediately place 30 IPC’s worth of units on it’s remaining industrial complexes. If by this point in the game they have no complexes left then they can place their units anywhere within their border that doesn’t contain an enemy unit, even if it is controlled by the enemy. You could justify this sudden increase by rationalizing that Russia would be that much more motivated after coming under attack on their eastern border (Not unlike the Americans upgrading their industrial complexes for free and getting extra income when entering the war).
The Mongolian Rule will still be in effect.
It would be crazy for Japan to declare war on Russia. They would probably have to go outside with the German player, fill up the kid’s turtle pool with red jello, put on bikinis, and settle this issue like exotic dancers before proceeding with their plan.
Russia cannot declare war on Japan unless they are invaded by the Japanese. It’s that simple!
WILD BILL last edited by
I think you have a good point about the Mongolian rule not being harsh enough to keep the Japanese from attacking Russia (or vise-versa). A couple well placed Japanese inf/mech and air can pretty much take out the Mongolians (Russian inf) with ease. Plus if the allies want to KJF and overload the Japanese by having the Russians invade Manchuria, the Mongols won’t join the Russians now (big deal lol)
I don’t think you should take away the Japanese or Russian abilities to attack each other out of the game though. I realize that this isn’t historical, and that it would have been virtually impossible for the Japanese to march through Siberia or China all the way to Moscow. However the Germans tried to persuade the Japanese to open up another front, not necessarily to directly attack the back side of Moscow, but to keep Russian resources away from the German lines. There were many border clashes leading up to the NAP, and neither side trusted each other. Plus both sides kept forces at the border just in case (although the Russians did recall much of the far east units to the German front).
Say the Germans did invade England, and they lost a lot of resources doing so. Many historians pegged the Russians to wait until the two sides wiped each other out, and invade a weakened Germany afterwords. As far as game terms go, w/Sea Lion the Russians feeling all warm and fuzzy should be able to invade Japanese held territories if they want too. Just because it didn’t happen doesn’t mean it couldn’t have.
With that said, in addition to the Mongolian rule there should be more of a penalty if either side violates the NAP. This should be a troop deployment to the region that is attacked, and not an IPC increase or unit placement awarded to the victim to place anywhere he can (in another theater). I also think that 30 IPC is way too much of a penalty.
Maybe something like if your enemy breaks the NAP and invades one of your originally controlled territories (territory you controlled when the game stated) you get to immediately place 12 IPCs in units on the territory being attacked, or in a territory adjacent to it. This would represent both sides have a defensive build up at the border, but you wouldn’t necessarily know the strength and placement of enemy units. Plus it would allow you to move actual units away from the border into areas you need them.
This wouldn’t stop the Russians from setting up def in China, or fighting between the Rus/Japan in interior China. It would only go into effect once one side attacks a territory that the other started the game with. You would be able to place the awarded units in the territory being attacked, or in an adjacent territory (or both) depending on the situation you find yourself in. If they attacked multiple territories you have more options for placement, but it would be in a region near the attacks (not dropped in Moscow or Leningrad).
I agree with everything you said, Bill. I like your idea better than mine as well. I started this thread in hopes of soliciting other ideas to deal with the question of whether or not these 2 should be at war with each other and if so then how to accomplish that without changing the properties of the map as is being proposed on YG’s new map project thread. I can see great value in developing a new map but if it does indeed change the IPC’s or territorial boundaries I don’t see how you could call it Global 40 anymore. There should be room for both maps/games but that still leaves the question of Japan vs Russia for G-40.
If there was a penalty to be paid by Japan for attacking Russia, I think that the penalty should be negated if Japan has conquered India. What else is Japan supposed to do in Asia if it has taken everything else-sit there and let it rain money all over them while the war rages on in Europe? I don’t see Russia wanting to invade Japan if Germany is still in the war, but if they do then they pay the penalty.Then you could negate the penalty for them if Germany has been conquered by the allies.
Truth be told though, I still think it would be hilarious if my friends had to jello wrestle in the backyard. Where’s my camera?
OK this is my final word on this one, I’ll move onto to something else;
Don’t really need a new map. Just change values of territories using sticky paper with a number on it. Try and get it to closes color.
It first bothered me on my map but got over it after 1 turn.
Caesar Seriona last edited by
I think the Mongolian rule should be changed. I can see an USSR player taking 30 ICP and just using it against Germany. Change it to any Soviet territory that becomes attacked by Japan, every single Mongolian territory has two infantry and joins USSR and each territory is worth 1 ICP which gets added to USSR.