I’m not 100% sure but I believe you can move part of your navy and transports out of sz6 during the combat phase to avoid combat, and leave some behind to attack the dd.
@WILD:
This is my interpretation, not an official answer.
I think the rule is pretty clear. Not much interpretation needed.
The weird part of the rule is you can’t load units and not unload then conduct combat with them.
@WILD:
This is my interpretation, not an official answer.
I think the rule is pretty clear. Not much interpretation needed.
The weird part of the rule is you can’t load units and not unload then conduct combat with them.
Yea it is a little strange that you would have to strand your ground units if you wanted to move on just because they built 1 dd.
I figure that it is probably the dock workers fault.
“Hey frank I got all these US troops that are moving out, and we need to load their gear”. “Sorry Joe we just got the call that the Japanese launched a new destroyer across the bay so we sent our whole crew over there, so the US Marine’s will just have to wait till next turn”
It’s even more extreme than that. If the Japanese built a DD in SZ6, you can’t pick up some units in Manchuria and land them in Kwangtung unless the axis own Kwangtung!
Follow up question:
For a G2 attack, on G1 I transported Danes over to Poland and moved 1 inf and 1 art from W. Germany into Germany (instead of throwing them into Paris). I also bought a sub in 113 and a dd in 114 and left my cruiser there. Russia moved his cruiser into 114 to block me. So at the end of the turn, in 114, there’s a Russian CC and I have my own CC, a DD, and a transport ready to ferry 2 guys over to the Baltic States. On G2, I’ll move my DD and CC out of the combat zone in 114 into a new one in 115 to kill off his sub, along with whatever planes I need to prevent a scramble. I’ll also kill his CC with my sub + planes. I was hoping my transport could choose to not be in that 114 combat so that it could move my two guys in Germany over to my newly acquired Baltic States in the noncombat phase. But from the comments above, it sounds like I can’t.
Edit: The statements below are wrong (my bad), because there is an exception to the loading tpt rule in a hostile sz when you have just DOW making the sz hostile. “During your combat move phase in which you entered into a state of war, your tpts that are already in sz’s that have just become hostile may be loaded in those sz’s (but not in other hostile sz’s)”
Edit:Wrong
I believe you are right, when you DOW on Russia, the Russian Cruiser now makes sz114 hostile. Because you can’t load your tpt in a hostel sz you can’t use it to amphib Baltic States. If you leave the tpt in sz114, it was considered to have been involved in the sea battle (w/your sub and planes) so you can’t use it in the non combat phase either.
Edit: Could still do this, but wasn’t necessary.
However if you had left the Danes on the tpt in sz 114 you could have used your already loaded tpt to amphib the Baltic States in the combat phase (now they tell me lol).
This part of the tpt rules seem gamey to me as well.
Edit: partly wrong
Another is when the Japanese position their fleet and transports on J2 in sz36 for a J3 attack, but screw up and off loaded the troops on to Kwanangsi. The plan is to DOW on allies and grab all the money islands J3, but the UK or Anz while neutral move a dd to sz36 and now when the Japanese DOW sz36 is hostile and they can’t load their tpts. It only happens once, because the Japanese won’t make that mistake of off loading the tpts if UK/Anz have a ship in range, but it really PO’s the Japanese player when it happens lol.
Edit: However the UK could move a dd into sz 36 while neutral, and the Anz could DOW on their turn which by rule would also immediately cause a state of war between UK and Japan. So sz36 would be hostile on Japans turn so they wouldn’t be able to load their transports in the combat phase (loop hole).
Yea but there’s no benefit to amphibing the Danes on G2 when I can offload them into Poland on G1. The rule does seem a little screwy, especially with the Japanese scenario. I might have to see if I can create a house rule that doesn’t affect the balance of play.
It’s even more extreme than that. If the Japanese built a DD in SZ6, you can’t pick up some units in Manchuria and land them in Kwangtung unless the axis own Kwangtung!
I think you have this reversed.
You can pick up the troops in Manchuria and land them in another territory if you don’t own the territory. If you do own the territory, you are SOL because you can’t do non-combat movement during the combat movement phase and moving during the combat movement phase means you can’t unload during the non-combat phase.
Marsh
@Marshmallow:
It’s even more extreme than that. If the Japanese built a DD in SZ6, you can’t pick up some units in Manchuria and land them in Kwangtung unless the axis own Kwangtung!
I think you have this reversed.
You can pick up the troops in Manchuria and land them in another territory if you don’t own the territory. If you do own the territory, you are SOL because you can’t do non-combat movement during the combat movement phase and moving during the combat movement phase means you can’t unload during the non-combat phase.
Marsh
No he had it right, re-read it.
He knows it is legal for the tpts to leave sz6, pick up the troops in Manchu (sz19) then amphib Kwangtung in the combat move phase (attack the Japanese). He’s saying you can’t do the move unless Kwangtung is axis owned (Japanese control it).
other transport question if i have only transport do anphobius assault can do scranble?
Follow up question:
For a G2 attack, on G1 I transported Danes over to Poland and moved 1 inf and 1 art from W. Germany into Germany (instead of throwing them into Paris). I also bought a sub in 113 and a dd in 114 and left my cruiser there. Russia moved his cruiser into 114 to block me. So at the end of the turn, in 114, there’s a Russian CC and I have my own CC, a DD, and a transport ready to ferry 2 guys over to the Baltic States. On G2, I’ll move my DD and CC out of the combat zone in 114 into a new one in 115 to kill off his sub, along with whatever planes I need to prevent a scramble. I’ll also kill his CC with my sub + planes. I was hoping my transport could choose to not be in that 114 combat so that it could move my two guys in Germany over to my newly acquired Baltic States in the noncombat phase. But from the comments above, it sounds like I can’t.
There is an exception if you DOW on your opponent in the current turn. Then you can load units in the combat move phase if the SZ is only hostile because of a power you were not previously at war with.
other transport question if i have only transport do anphobius assault can do scranble?
Yes. The scramble auto-kills the transports with troops on board. It’s one of the bonuses of an airbase.
That’s why I just love this rule book. You look up a rule, think everything is covered only to find out that two pages earlier they list an exception to the rule they didn’t even tell you about yet. Why in the hell didn’t they at least reference you back to the “Declaring War” box on pg#12 when they list what happens when you start your turn and your ships are in a hostile sz?
Sorry eames57 looks like I gave you a bit of misinformation. According to the “Declaring War” box on pg 12 of the 2nd edition because you DOW on your turn you are allowed to load your tpts in sz114 during the combat move phase and do an amphib somewhere (including Baltic States). You still couldn’t have loaded your tpts and reinforced Baltic State though because that would be done during the NCM, and a battle occurred in the sz your tpt was in.
BTW Simon (and louprounge) the scrambling planes wouldn’t auto kill the tpts. The planes would have to roll, and hits would be applied to the tpt(s). As the attacker any surviving tpt(s) could retreat after the first round of combat.
@WILD:
BTW Simon (and louprounge) the scrambling planes wouldn’t auto kill the tpts. The planes would have to roll, and hits would be applied to the tpt(s). As the attacker any surviving tpt(s) could retreat after the first round of combat.
Good point. Because there is a retreat option the auto kill doesn’t apply.
@WILD:
No he had it right, re-read it.
He knows it is legal for the tpts to leave sz6, pick up the troops in Manchu (sz19) then amphib Kwangtung in the combat move phase (attack the Japanese). He’s saying you can’t do the move unless Kwangtung is axis owned (Japanese control it).
Well, the rules on transports are confusing. Mea culpa Simon!
Marsh
@WILD:
On page# 13 and 14 in the 2nd edition rule book it gives you the choices you have when you start your turn in a hostile sz (because enemy build a warship). These would all be done in the combat phase.
…
4) Leave the sz and conduct no combat.
Are you sure this has to happen in combat move phase? Rulebook does not state that in this paragraph.
Because if it doesn’t, there won’t be any problem in moving them in NCM with loading cargo after the SZ was made friendly in combat phase.
@Wicked:
@WILD:
On page# 13 and 14 in the 2nd edition rule book it gives you the choices you have when you start your turn in a hostile sz (because enemy build a warship). These would all be done in the combat phase.
…
4) Leave the sz and conduct no combat.Are you sure this has to happen in combat move phase? Rulebook does not state that in this paragraph.
…
:?
Well, actually it does:
@rulebook:
Sea Units Starting in Hostile Sea Zones
At the beginning of the Combat Move phase, …
Pages 12-15 are all about combat move phase.
@Wicked:
Because if it doesn’t, there won’t be any problem in moving them in NCM with loading cargo after the SZ was made friendly in combat phase.
You can certainly leave the transport in the same sz and conduct combat there. I don’t think you can then move the TT out of that SZ on the NCM phase though.
You cannot. You can load the transport in the non-combat round after it “participates” in combat, but it cannot be moved or unloaded.
Marsh
If you can’t move it why would you be able to load it?
Rulebook P2E, Page 13 (Chapter CM): If you are sharing a sea zone with surface warships (not submarines and/or transports) belonging to a power with which you are at war, this situation requires you to do one of the following:
• Remain in the sea zone and conduct combat,
• Leave the sea zone, load units if desired, and conduct combat elsewhere,
• Leave the sea zone, load units, and return to the same sea zone to conduct combat (you can’t load units while in a hostile
sea zone), or
• Leave the sea zone and conduct no combat.
Once these sea units have moved and/or participated in combat, they can’t move or participate in the Noncombat Move phase of the turn.
According to the rules, 1-3 is combat move+combat, but 4 would be a non combat move.
Not sure if it would have been emphasised that the leaving takes place exceptionally in CM phase. Also the last sentence would be clearer if it stated “In all of these cases, units can’t move or participate in the Noncombat Move phase of the turn.”
Edit: I have to apologize, this exeption is actually printed on page 12:
However, units can’t end their movement in friendly spaces during the Combat Move phase except in four instances:
(…)
• Units moving from a hostile sea zone to escape combat as their combat move.
A sea zone into which defending air units may be scrambled in reaction to an amphibious assault (see “Scramble,” page 15) may be treated in the same way as a hostile sea zone for this purpose.
So scrambling fighters also block NCM this way.
Page 22 (Chapter NCM):
Transports can move to friendly coastal territories and load or offload cargo, unless they loaded, moved, offloaded, or were involved in combat during the Combat Move or Conduct Combat phase.
So this means having an enemy vessel in the seazone at the beginning of the turn does automatically mean battle activity for every naval unit in that SZ, including SSs.
