• @Tirano:

    Germans have so many starting Inf that if they do it correctly they can target both considering there airforce can reach either and so gives great threat projection.

    My standard Russian start is to mass the majority of infantry and artillery in Bryansk. A German player attempting to split forces between Western Ukraine and Belarus, for example, will allow me to hit the Belarus stack and retreat to Smolensk - out of reach of German’s Western Ukraine infantry. The German’s start with plenty of infantry and such - but not enough to hold two provinces against the majority of the Russian stack - nor to counter attack with only mobile divisions.


  • If you are moving into Russia with multiple forces north and south of the marsh, then yea the Russians could hit and run you because your strength isn’t concentrated. If you are moving one super stack going south of the marsh to E Poland, then to W Ukraine etc…the Russians will be forced to collapse back ahead of you (LEAVING YOU A PATH SOUTH IF YOU WANT IT).  If the Russians have built a lot of art then they could potentially still attack, but could be disastrous for them. Make sure to bring 3 AA guns with you so if they try to strafe your stack you have a chance to kill planes. Another thing is once you super stack W Ukraine the Russians can’t stay on Bryansk, so have some Italian mech (maybe a tank) and It bmr to take Bryansk for you so that you can NCM your German stack in, and bring in some German ftrs for defense so there is no way for they to hit you.

    They may set-up counter attacks to trade their minor ICs to keep you from building for a round, but they can’t afford to lose to many units .

    Don’t worry to much about marching a force to Leningrad. I have found that if you pressure Leningrad by sea (build at least one maybe two more tpt) and through Scandinavia that they have to choose to defend it, or evacuate it. If they try to defend it those slow moving Russian units get caught out of position and can’t get to Moscow in time, or get killed when you do amphib it.

  • '17 '16 Customizer

    I find this topic rather surprising. I’ve never really thought of some of the points made here. (Such as be able to actually move an extra space with some units.) The ROE for retreating has not changed since the original A&A and I can count on one hand the number of time I’ve retreated. I only retreat if the battle has gone horribly bad and it’s obvious I cannot win w/o losing my remaining forces. By the time that happens, it usually means I’m going to lose the rest of my force when my opponents counterattacks on their turn.

    But after reading this thread, I might have to see where a “tactical” retreat might indeed benefit my long term objectives. As far as that being “wrong” or not “fair”, I would argue that sure it is. I’m sure at some point in the history of war, some army engaged an opposing force to help clear a path for other friendly forces to escape into. Seems perfectly logical to me.


  • @WILD:

    If you are moving into Russia with multiple forces north and south of the marsh, then yea the Russians could hit and run you because your strength isn’t concentrated. If you are moving one super stack going south of the marsh to E Poland, then to W Ukraine etc…the Russians will probably collapse back ahead of you (LEAVING YOU A PATH SOUTH IF YOU WANT IT). �If the Russians have built a lot of art then they could potentially still attack, but could be disastrous for them. Make sure to bring 3 AA guns with you so if they try to strafe your stack you have a chance to kill planes. Another thing is once you super stack W Ukraine the Russians can’t stay on Bryansk, so have some Italian mech (maybe a tank) and It bmr to take Bryansk for you so that you can NCM your German stack in, and bring in some German ftrs for defense so there is no way for they to hit you.

    They may set-up counter attacks to trade their minor ICs to keep you from building for a round, but they can’t afford to lose to many units .

    Don’t worry to much about marching a force to Leningrad. I have found that if you pressure Leningrad by sea (build at least one more tpt) that they have to choose to defend it, or evacuate it. If they try to defend it those slow moving Russian units get caught out of position and can’t get to Moscow in time, or get killed when you do amphib it. �

    Absolutely. My point isn’t that you can beat the Germans - or even hold both locations indefinitely - just that you can slow them down. And that retreat rules are a very large component to slowing them down without getting obliterated in a counter attack.


  • Me too are bothered about the abuse of the word retreat, when it actually is a strafe attack or raid. It was very rare that an attacker had to retreat, usually when an attack was stopped, both sides dug in and got locked in combat, and the territory got contested, as they say in A&A D day and A&A 1914. Retreating during WWII were usually something the defender had to do. Funny enough, the defender is not allowed to retreat in our A&A game.

    In this A&A game an attacker can plan to retreat on purpose, he can plan to attack an enemy territory with just enough infantry fodder to save his hard hitting units, and then retreat after a few rounds of combat, when the enemy only have a few units left. This is a classic strafe, a tactic to bleed the enemy dry. And you dont retreat, you withdraw. Obviously the game designers have less military education.

    Another tactic from the days of cavalry is the Raid, you attack from different directions, and withdraw together. The object of this raid can be to surprise the enemy and get him out of balance, annihilate his forces, mess up his strategy, or position your units to a new staging area. Typically raids in A&A Global is slow moving inf and art from Southern Germany that double move via Yugoslavia to Romania as long as a unit from Romania come to meet them. This can make sense since the retreating German army can track supply from many places.

    Another, and more cheesy retreat, is to Raid Iraq from Persia and Trans Jordan, and then retreat to Trans Jordan. Lawrence of Arabia did something similar during WW I, but if Egypt and the Mediterranian Sea are hostile, cutting Trans Jordan off from supply, then this raid need to be carefully planed. And there are no longer talk about a retreat. We talk about a campaign, or operation. Not some random retreat because the men panicked.

    IMHO the words of the rule should be

    1. Attacker press continue attack or withdraw
    …and if the attacker withdraw he can split his units to any friendly territories, or seazones that is not hostile, or move them gathered, his choice.

    2. Defender press contest the area or retreat.
    …and if the defender retreats, his units are scattered and he suffers some penalty.


  • Amalec, now I understand why you would rather buy inf G1 instead of Art. I think that you splitting your force into two groups (north and south of the Marsh) is flawed, and it is putting you in a defensive posture. You have to choose north or south (south being better IMO), keep your force concentrated (including AAA guns) so they can’t strafe you (w/o much risk).

    Germany is the aggressor, don’t lose that edge buy trying to do too much. You can send a token force via the sea combined with the Finns and air power to pressure and take Leningrad rather easily.  You don’t need a carrier to do this, but you should buy another transport or two, and a dd is also useful at some point to kill the Russian sub(s).

    You need more Art for the end game to sack Moscow, not more inf to def multiple stacks on the way.

  • 2024 2023 '22 '21 '20 '19 '18 '17

    The title of this thread reminded me of this famous 1944 TIME cover:

    The caption reads: “Retreat may be masterly, but victory is in the opposite direction”

  • '19 '17 '16

    @ShadowHAwk:

    the retreat rule is the same as it was in classic and yes it is a big weird and abbusable sometimes

    Right. I never played it that way!


  • A strange situation came up in a battle: 
    Germans had 1 sub + stack of planes
    allies had 2 subs + surface ships.

    On the first round, the subs all missed and the German planes obliterated the Allied surface ships.  On round two I wanted to retreat the 1 sub since the odds were lousy without plane assistance.  Apparently the sub is only allowed to submerge and has no option to retreat (retreating allows it to be in a safer position).  Is that correct?

  • '19 '17 '16

    If the subs can’t effectively fire then its the same as if a defender has only an AA gun but only if there are no other attackers. You cannot retreat. However, I would think that since the planes can hit other planes then you can retreat.


  • @simon33:

    If the subs can’t effectively fire then its the same as if a defender has only an AA gun but only if there are no other attackers. You cannot retreat. However, I would think that since the planes can hit other planes then you can retreat.

    There was still a sub vs sub battle going on; all surface and air battles were over.  Wouldn’t I be able to retreat my attacking sub in that case?

  • '19 '17 '16

    I’m pretty sure you would.

    Sub submerge decisions are after retreat decisions iirc


  • You can retreat as long as the sub didn’t start in that sea zone that turn. If the sub came from another sea zone, then it can retreat from whence it came.

  • '21 '20 '18 '17

    Retreating is more appropriate for a tactical type wargame, with factors like morale and suppression.  There are dozens of these and many of them are better than AxA in many ways.

    Like a lot of people allude to here, the attacker in AxA doesn’t really retreat, he stops “pressing the attack” as we like to say.  There are all sorts of variations where this withdraw rule allows (usually the Germans or Russians because of their land territory) to move units extra spaces, or consolidate units during combat.  Of course, whenever you use this rule this way, you will have left enemy pieces behind and that leaves an opening for planes to land and tanks to blitz through your line.

    We’ve been going over rules like this a lot lately, I think in the scope of AxA they give the attacker several subtle advantages.  The attacker already has the predominating advantage;  that of choosing where to attack, when, and with how much.  These other advantages don’t amount to nearly as much as the initiative does.  These advantages are important to ensuring that the momentum of the game is always in favor of the players who have the greatest weight of power and focus regionally (this simulates real life blitzkrieg, encirclement, and strategic war and in some ways, chess) and that the game doesn’t end up a stack slog like Risk can.

    When we talk about a Strategic retreat, that actually happens on the (to be) defending player’s turn.  You don’t retreat from combat; you withdraw to a reserve position before combat ever occurs.  Its the same with “bringing up reserves”, these units don’t join the battle during combat (say after multiple turns), they reinforce from the rear during the players noncom or appear from the factories.  There are plenty of examples (abandoning an untenable city like Ukraine, Leningrad, Moscow etc) where these happen every game.

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