G1 Carrier Build


  • 2019 2017 '16

    With a J1 or J2 DOW, the USA can land 6 ground troops on Norway on USA3. I guess a CV can block SZ125 although so does a DD blocker in SZ124. Someone managed to do that to me once and I think I diverted the force to Normandy.



  • @Arthur:

    It should be relatively easy to retain control of Scandinavia for the first four rounds.  One transport + 10 planes is enough to obliterate a small landing force.  The big trouble is when the Americans land 4-8 ground units and UK reinforces with a bunch of planes.  I don’t know how a carrier build will stop this anyway since you don’t want to get into an Atlantic naval race with the USA.  That is assured defeat for the Axis.

    Carriers + 2 transports gives you 3 transports in the baltic, this helps you reinforce norway and with 6 land forces and 10 planes you get a bit more attacking power.
    Those 3 transports can be used to also attack russia in the north or shorten your supply lines allowing you to build inf/art iso mech/arm without losing time.
    Round 2 those are in leninggrad and round 5 they can help in the moscow attack not slower then the mech/arm combo but a bit cheaper.

    A carrier build actualy helps against russia and at the same time forces the UK into a defensive state because sea lion is still optional and ignoring it well 6 land units + 10 planes can win from UK if they dont build anything in london round 1 and move off the raf to attack italy.



  • I think we all know the importance of adding a warship (DD Carrier) to the Baltic fleet, and keeping the German BB alive. It forces the UK to drop ground units on London in the first turn, and may or may not deter Taranto.

    Besides the threat to London in order to keep a viable naval presence in the Baltic I think you need to keep the BB alive, and add either a dd or carrier to the fleet, and at least one more tpt. If you intend to lose the BB then a carrier for sure. When you look to amphib Leningrad w/o a BB adding anything the Russians could scramble and kill your mini fleet (if in position). If you buy nothing (have only a CA and BB) and amphib Leningrad the Russians could potentially attack your fleet with sub and air after you land and kill off the fleet. I know that Russia risking air is never a good thing for them, but if they kill that mini fleet the Western Allies can make landings in Scandinavia (taking away the German NO), and get ftrs into Moscow easier. Opening up a second front and losing that NO early is devastating for the Germans. The Germans don’t want to be fighting the W Allies up there early.


  • 2019 2018 2017 '16

    Wild Bill, are you suggesting that Germany always build a destroyer on G1?

    If so, that would leave Germany 22 IPCs. How would you spend that? Four artillery and two infantry? Four artillery and a tank?

    Marsh


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Believe he was saying if you build a carrier then you should also build a destroyer leaving Germany 6 IPC.

    I agree.  However, I am not sure building fleet round 1 is the best solution.  Not saying it isn’t, just saying I am not sure it is.



  • @Marshmallow:

    Wild Bill, are you suggesting that Germany always build a destroyer on G1?

    If so, that would leave Germany 22 IPCs. How would you spend that? Four artillery and two infantry? Four artillery and a tank?

    Marsh

    Like I said I’m a firm believer it is in Germany’s best interest to preserve the navy they start with, add a war ship (dd or carrier), plus a transport or two at some point. With that said because I’m going to buy navy I would buy at least 1 warship G1 to give the UK notice. A dd fills the bill for me because it helps protect your Baltic fleet. You can still do a hit and run on sz111 w/bb, and retreat to sz112, but it is pretty risky w/UK counter attack (you have to kill the sz91 cruiser for sure). Of course it is better to buy a carrier if you hit and run.

    I would leave the tank for later, but yea prob couple art and maybe a bmr (I like to SBR London hard G2). Could be dd, tpt, 3 art, 1 inf or any combo or save some.

    If you build a carrier G1, then you don’t have to worry to much about a Russian attack. Buying a DD instead would also be fine in my book, because you can kill Russian sub(s).


  • 2019 2017 '16

    I like the strafe on SZ111 with the BB too. The UK dBat can’t normally survive but even if it does, then what? It’s probably spent a few turns reaching the naval base in SZ106 and is out of position.

    Re: SZ91 Cruiser. That requires stripping two subs out of the other attacks. Is it worth it? If UK doesn’t scramble, it has 3ftrs, DD, SB, dBat and the cruiser (perhaps two) to throw at you. You have DD, dBat, Cruiser, 3plane scramble. UK has the edge in this battle I guess. Interesting.

    An alternative is to send a second sub to SZ111 but that gives good odds for a scramble in both sea zones which probably isn’t what you want as Germany.

    Perhaps you can look at it like this: if the Cruiser comes after SZ112 then they can’t really do Taranto without a bid which makes it a victory in itself.



  • Yea I like the sz111 strafe, and that’s probably why I prefer a carrier build G1. No way UK hits sz112, and a carrier could allow you to hit the dBB if it runs to Iceland w/air cover (comes w/risk).  However with only a dd build G1 the sz 112 counter attack for UK is about 40% w/no cruiser (70% w/a cruiser). Up side is there would be no Taranto raid, and there is much more risk to UK if sz112 counter attack fails, plus they are killing off the couple ships they have left in the Atlantic (you don’t have to hunt down the dBB it is coming to you).

    Of course if there is a unit bid then everything goes out the window, and why bother discussing opening round strats? That’s why I prefer an IPC bid to starting income, or seek a standardized at set up bid. With a varying unit placement bid at set up theoretically the allies could change just about every opening battle the Germans/Italians or even the Japanese have (via boosting defense, or bolstering attacks or counter attacks).



  • curious…whats the strategy here


  • 2019 2017 '16

    At the very least, keeping the BB alive increases the threat of Sea Lion.



  • The carrier is simply something to help give your fleet a backbone and protects everything in 112 and means you don’t have to land a t bomber in Holland (from Germany).  It protects your transports if you are threatening sea lion and can be used to protect sea units at Gibraltar or 127 (Archangel).  If you can get it to the Mediterranean Sea it can really help Italy too.  The only con is that it does virtually nothing against Russia. 
    So basically, do you think being in 112 is useful?  Do you like to threaten (not take) Sea Lion to help Itake?  Do you like hoping Italy in the Med?  Do you like taking Gibraltar? Maybe getting South Africa every ten games?  Do you like feigning Sea Lion then hitting Leningrad? If you answered yes to any of these, a carrier can be useful.



  • @Charles:

    The carrier is simply something to help give your fleet a backbone and protects everything in 112 and means you don’t have to land a t bomber in Holland (from Germany).   It protects your transports if you are threatening sea lion and can be used to protect sea units at Gibraltar or 127 (Archangel).   If you can get it to the Mediterranean Sea it can really help Italy too.   The only con is that it does virtually nothing against Russia. 
    So basically, do you think being in 112 is useful?   Do you like to threaten (not take) Sea Lion to help Itake?  Do you like hoping Italy in the Med?  Do you like taking Gibraltar? Maybe getting South Africa every ten games?  Do you like feigning Sea Lion then hitting Leningrad? If you answered yes to any of these, a carrier can be useful.

    It does not help directly indeed but indirect.
    the ability to project power from SZ127 that you dont have without the carrier.
    The ability to shuttle troops from germany to leningrad throughout the game.

    Or you could use it to project power in the med, slowing down possible US intervention or help italy and take the middle east.

    Yes all not directly against russia the carrier itself does not hurt any russian units but it sure can be vital in making russian life hell.

    It should be seen as building an IC somewhere, the IC does not damage units on its own but it will project power in an area.


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