Scramble G1\. Why not?


  • 2019 2017 2016

    I’ve been thinking a lot about why you wouldn’t scramble against a G1 attack on SZ110 & SZ111. Doing so almost always has a positive expected value in TUV terms. Indeed, Luftwaffe TUV is far more valuable than RAF because the former is useful for Barbarossa but the latter often isn’t. Killing Kreigsmarine isn’t very valuable but generally you won’t be doing too much of that from scrambling. Most of the subs are generally lost anyway, although it does sometimes allow them to take a hit to sink the BB and save a plane.

    Is the theory that the extra hit likely to be taken on the BB swings the values too much?

    EDIT: Taranto is a valid reason but you can still scramble to SZ110 and use the fighter from Scotland.



  • Funny you should post this. Last game I played I took about 5 minutes just pondering to myself on scrambling in 110. For all the reasons you just mentioned. Why I opted against it that game was that Germany did not make a purchase G1. Feàrful of 10+ fully loaded TT coming into London by G3 I decided against it.

    The question is if you were playing as Germany and killed those fighters but lost a good part of your airforce would you still try a SeaLion if that was your intentions? Knowing London is minus those fighters.


  • 2019 2017 2016

    Against a 6inf 1ftr buy Sea Lion is a pretty tough ask. The downside is losing so much in the med if you can’t do Taranto.


  • Customizer

    As Britain, I usually don’t scramble.  I want them for defense in case of Sealion and they are too valuable later in the game as well.  Without the RAF, I don’t think UK can project any threat on Germany or Italy and they are free to pound Russia and take over the Med respectively.


  • 2018 2017

    Germany has more money, more fighters than you, and you won’t be able to help Russia or get America’s help for 4 turns, minimum.  That means you need the defense and mobility and that losing that air makes you a sitting duck (or useless).

    If they under commit to the attack, then sure.  Not sure why people don’t put a DD there during the bid, guess it doesn’t change much, but it means an under commit is even more likely.  Many people are starting to scramble over this battle, which means that what an over/undercommit has changed in the perception of the players.

    Trading a UK fighter for a German fighter early in the game, in G40, isn’t in UKs favor.  UK and Russia are paralyzed by their ability to make no more than 40IPCs for most of the game…Germany can make 70-80 making the attrition game a dangerous one to play.



  • I’ll scramble for mainly for two reasons.

    1. Germany didn’t commit enough to a seazone.
    2. Germany bought ground units for Russia or went G1 Barb

    Sometimes if I know my opponent doesn’t like to SL or isn’t very good at handling USSR after a SL, I’ll scramble just to tempt them into going down a path I know they’ll struggle with. Depends on what Japan’s doing as well as where I’m planning on spending the bulk of my US money.


  • 2018 2016

    My all time favorite scramble is SZ109 when the opponent tries to kill the dd and transport. Easy sub kill. I’ve been known to pull this one a few times when my bud forgets with some very fun results later. Problem is that you have to hit them all the first time or no DD left for the fun.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016

    @knp7765:

    As Britain, I usually don’t scramble.  I want them for defense in case of Sealion and they are too valuable later in the game as well.  Without the RAF, I don’t think UK can project any threat on Germany or Italy and they are free to pound Russia and take over the Med respectively.

    I agree with this. While losing air units does hurt Germany, the loss of those mobile units does not have as great an impact on Germany as the RAF losses have on the UK’s mobility. I would scramble only if Germany went light and I had a good chance of inflicting heavier damage on the Luftwaffe than on the RAF.

    Marsh


  • 2019 2017 2016

    I’m not sold on this. UK’s IPCs are difficult to make felt in Barbarossa. They can’t even fly in a fighter if Scandanavia is lost, except around via the Med.

    Yes, there is some danger of attrition play if Germany keeps peace with the USSR, but a 9 inf buy UK1 is very difficult to land against. Is sea lion really the problem, not Taranto?


  • 2017 2016 '13 '12

    Scrambling is a big gamble.

    Remember that the attacker has the option to retreat from an unfavorable first round which is a big advantage for the Axis. A counterweight is that if the battleship survives it can be repaired upon a retreat.

    The scramble / no scramble will depend on what Germany buys and what force Germany brings in. If I get a positive TUV swing per calculator by scrambling I usually do so since it’s still relatively costly for Germany to do sea lion (except if they get lucky on that scramble). I often skip the 111 scramble since the German player will often retreat the battleship anyways and the scramble only helps to minimize the likelihood of a one round kill.


  • TripleA

    I like to scramble. Depends on bid and where it was placed. Some germany players will send only 1 sub to sz 106 instead of 2 subs, as insurance for their round 1 attack (mainly because the sub in sz 107 can’t make it).

    Rule of thumb, if germany is going 2 subs 1 bship in sz 110 and sending 3 fighter 3 tactical, you need more than 4 hits to cut into germany’s air… it is a bad idea. 2 subs 3 fig 3 tact 1 bomber… okay sure have fun. SZ 111 lately I have been seeing the bship attack that with 2 subs and some air to boot… in which case I say no, I will do sz 110 and pass on sz 111.

    Just be aware your UK1 buy goes entirely into london. If your transport is still alive in sz 106, dump the armor and infantry into london immediately if you scrambled in sz 110 to trade air units.

    Again it depends on how crazy I am feeling. Also the potential to totally screw Germany over is there and so is the loss of london, any sz 110 scramble is high risk and high reward. If Germany goes light, then go hard, it sets the tone for the rest of the game If you are crazy like me, I suggest your bid be directed in the medit sea or somewhere in africa.


  • 2018 2017

    With an extra DD in 110 and an extra fighter in Scotland (bid > 18), im pretty sure he can only choose one of these two battles and will come in too light unless he brings just about everything into 110 (3 pairs, 2 SB, 2 subs…)


  • 2019 2017 2016

    @taamvan:

    With an extra DD in 110 and an extra fighter in Scotland (bid > 18), im pretty sure he can only choose one of these two battles and will come in too light unless he brings just about everything into 110 (3 pairs, 2 SB, 2 subs…)

    Yeah. I’m wondering about the merit of the second fighter on Scotland without the DD in SZ110. Most likely, any sub hit is likely to just dent the BB in SZ110 anyway.


  • TripleA

    If the bid in sz 110 dd and a fighter in scotland… I personally hit 1 of the seazones only as germany and use air units to DOW on Russia round 1. Russia has 7 inf on its borders which is far more important than 3 ships, since attacking Russia is the primary objective. If Germany is attacking both seazones, yes you should be scrambling one or both. Considering DOW Russia G1 is a strong strategy already, I wouldn’t mind. Considering an 18 bid has some of it directed at Japan… it is good times for Japan to go about its J1 or J2 dow smooth sailing.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    There’s way too many things to ponder when evaluating a scramble.

    Primarily

    • did Germany screw up the attack and scrambling will give you an edge in one or more engagements somewhere?
    • What is your plan with England?  Are you going to build up the middle east and hold with a hope of neutering Japan and sending reinforcements up the Caucasus mountains?  Or are you going more traditional invasion of Europe/Scandinavia with British naval assets?  If the former, the planes are nice, but less important - if the later then the planes are extremely important!

    Secondary

    • What did Germany buy?  Fleet?  Ground Troops?  If Germany bought fleet, you may want to keep those planes for defense, scramble, counter attacks.  If they bought ground troops, odds are good they plan on hitting Russia and you may decide some planes are more expendable (if they can knock down Luftwaffe and buy Russia some extra time).
    • What did Japan do?  If Japan went to war right off the bat, it implies that a massive push on England is coming, you may want to withhold your fighters for later when money is tight.  If Japan consolidated, a slower game might be ahead.

    I am sure there’s a lot more, but I have only had 33% of a cup of coffee and I can’t be expected to function on so little caffeine. 😛

    For the record, I do not claim special knowledge or ability, those are just ideas that run through my head as I play.  Then again, I don’t like playing England.  :lol:  I prefer Russia.


  • 2018 2017

    Yes, it has to be reactive.

    Even with the bid I proposed, Tirano points out to me that they can still easily take down SZ 110 and SZ 111 as long as they bring the BB in.  Don’t know if keeping that UK navy is even possible but after the G42 lessons learned, you need that on the board naval stuff as the nucleus of your fleet if you want to have any chance of even Annoying Germany First.  Unless the bid is allowed to be placed all in one territory (like in the tournament), there doesn’t seem to be a way to save it on G1, and if you are allowed to place all in one territory, he says, why not stack France?  Seems sound…then he cant attack SZ 110 and 111 AND Paris.

    Then we fall back to making Egypt and Med Navy tougher, suppressing Italy earlier, like you guys said.  Guess its just the clearest weak point.


Log in to reply
 

Suggested Topics

  • 5
  • 4
  • 3
  • 18
  • 12
  • 5
  • 9
  • 18
I Will Never Grow Up Games
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys

40
Online

13.7k
Users

34.0k
Topics

1.3m
Posts