Bidding



  • Hello all, 
    Playing some new people this coming weekend and they were talking about playing with bids for 1940.  What is the process and some quick strategies that people have used?

    Thanks in advance….


  • 2016 2015 '10

    If you’re playing with the 2nd edition ruleset, make sure there’s a bid of at least 20.  Typically, that means 20 ipcs worth of units that the Allies place before the game starts.

    “Bidding” is a way to determine sides fairly.  The most common way is for one team to start at a high bid for Allies (say 40) and the next team bids lower.  This process continues until you reach a number until one or the other team is unwilling to bid any lower for Allies.



  • Are there any rules as to where bid units can be placed?



  • Units only (no Factory’s or bases).  Also limited to areas where there are units already.


  • 2018 2017

    The league rules here at the board -> playing boardgames -> league sound pretty good to me.


  • 2018 2016

    We don’t bid. We just pull a marker out of Crown Royal Bag until all players are initially determined. This consists of the major powers first, USSR, Germ, Japan, UK, USA. Unless we have a large group then Anzac and Italy are added. China is always assigned.

    The bid balances the game some would say, but we have found we don’t need it. Maybe we just aren’t that good or maybe the lack of the bid created our house rules.

    The lack of a bid has certainly increased the skill of Allied play though.



  • Just trying to figure out how to run a 1940 Global table top tournament where sides are pre-determined so everyone plays both sides equal amount (but I don’t want to make playing the Allies an automatic loss either).

    I was thinking a 5IPC bonus to the US for being at war with the Axis powers, and splitting the conditions for Russia’s national prestige NO into 2X bonuses instead of 1. This should eliminate different opening strategies from game to game.


  • 2018 2017

    I was never a fan of the bid, but Maphead and I just won the Global 42 tournament at Gencon and I really see the value now.

    The bid lets you explore perceptions and biases about which team people prefer and think has an advantage.  The truth is, the exact imbalance or advantage is based on many factors, including team preference, what you played recently, what you played in that tournament, and player skill.

    We played 4 games with +0 bid and the Axis won all four of those games.  We only played allies once.

    The allies are at a distinct disadvantage in both G40 and G42.  the bids in the casual 40 game behind us ran into as high as 40.

    Don’t think there was a bid in any of 12-15 tournament games but I could be wrong.


  • 2017

    I saw someone post that a bid for G40 should be at least 20 IPCs worth of units…
    A rule I think is fair is to require at a minimum that the units should be spread out evenly between two countries.

    Example why:  If someone placed 4 infantry and 2 artillery in one territory like Normandy, (or even France), that could significantly effect Germany’s Round1 to the point that the immediate Axis advantage (which is needed for a good game), could be significantly mitigated. The German player would have to think about having to decide on whether or not to divert aircraft from SZ110 or SZ111 to take out the more significant land threat. Then the UK could survive R1 with a significant fleet in at least one SZ. This could result in quicker and more powerful US landings (less need to buy destroyers for defense) once it’s at war.



  • @taamvan:

    I was never a fan of the bid, but Maphead and I just won the Global 42 tournament at Gencon and I really see the value now.  Â

    CONGRATULATIONS TAAMVAN & MAPHEAD!!

    @taamvan:

    The allies are at a distinct disadvantage in both G40 and G42.  the bids in the casual 40 game behind us ran into as high as 40.

    When you say a casual game, I’m assuming there was no Global 1940 format available for tournament play?… was there Larry’s 1942 setup for the 1940 boards available for tournament play?


  • 2017

    Taamvan,

    Congrats to you and Maphead on winning the G42 GENCON tournament! I’m still very new to this game, however, I don’t see how a G40 Axis player giving a 40 IPC bid to the Allies could win, unless my rule suggestion (requiring an IPC split between at least 2 nations) was a part of the process.

    You could put 10 infantry and 1 fighter in France. It’s possible that France could become an actual player and or the UK’s entire fleet would survive R1 (minus SZ106 if attacked by 2 subs)!

    Even so, 20 IPCs to UK and 20 IPCs to Russia should spell automatic Axis fail.


  • 2018 2017

    The tournament bidding is

    “whole units” (no cash or change given, no bases or factories)

    with

    “like units with like”  sea with sea, land with land, American with American etc.

    The best use of the bid is to buy something that changes the entire game, as you are suggesting.  Make france difficult or impossible to take.    Make the UK navy or Italy navy survive.

    Change all the assumptions of that layout by altering the openers.

    The worst use for the bid is to buy pieces that will be sacrificed or retaliated against quickly, on turns 1-2.    Pieces like artillery that add punch are OK, but they don’t survive the retaliation.  Transports are often used one time and then killed.  These are not the best ways to use a bid.


  • 2018 2017

    Thanks a ton YG.  Yes, there were 40 games but no tournament.  the G40 games turned into a massive turtle time, with 50+ soviet infantry and 20+ german tanks moving 1 square at a time.

    Play schedule Gencon 2016 for Global boards and others:

    Thursday (Game 104)  2 G42 tourney games + 1 G42 casual  (plus 1 x ww1, 10x 1985, 1942, 1941)
    Friday (Game 105)  2 G42 tourney games + 1 G40 casual (plus  1 x ww1, 8x above)
    Saturday (Game 106) 3 G42 tourney games + 1 G40 casual (plus 1 x ww1, 12x above versions)
    Sunday (Game 107) finals 1 G42 game, 1 42.2 game, 1 anniversary game



  • One rule I forgot to mention that was talked about is that you may only put 1 extra unit in a territory and that the territory has a unit in it.

    The French example given before is not allowed.  Basically if the allies got 21 IPC, USSR can grab 7 infantry.  BUT, they have to them in 7 different territories with units already in them.


  • 2018 2017

    That is indeed the bidding format in the TrippleA crowd, iirc, but at the tourney, there is no limit on how many units can be placed in 1 territory, only that you cannot mix and add to teams that are not already there (SZ 110 and PARIS can add French or UK units or both but no UK destroyer can hang with the French DD)



  • So the G42 tournament games were Larry’s setup on Global 1940 boards?


  • 2018 2017

    All of the games were played on the two Global Boards.  The G40 (OOB) setup, as you mentioned when we last spoke, is not really short enough to be played within the tournament format.

    The G42 scenario (printed by L HARRIS the year after the Alpha +2? setup was finalized?) seems intended for tournament play.  This setup has been played for 5 Gencons, 2012-2016.

    I do not know of a time when G40 was played, though Mr. Roby implied that the first year was done according to a different start scenario I don’t know if that was G40, G40+2, +3, or 2nd ed.

    There is, as far as I know, only a single version of this G42 setup (while there are 3-4 editions/versions of the G40).  This is played on the Global game boards.

    This is an economic victory scenario;  7 turns is ideal based on the time allotted.  many players stipulate to 7 turns.  If the Axis have 125 board points (no NOs, no cash is counted), they win.  If they have 124 or less, the allies win.    Most of the games we saw were exactly 7 turns, though Smorly allows you to play longer on Thurs, Fri, or Sat if you choose and agree.



  • OK, thanks… where there any bids handed out for the G42 setup games, if so… to who and how much? sorry for all the questions.


  • 2018 2017

    Not in any of my four games.  IN our game in KC with Roby, we had Allies +6 we put up in Soviet FE.

    Don’t think I heard of a bid in any of the other tournament games that were played, but in the G40 casual games, standard, pro allied bidding.



  • Sounds like the 1942 setup is very balanced.


  • 2018 2017

    I believe that the axis won 7 or 8 of the 10 or 11 G42 games played (perhaps all without a bid), so your conclusion is shared by many…but not myself.

    The victory condition and tournament time meant that many people stipulated or played to exactly 7 turns (unless opponents conceded the victory).  This predictable end creates some gamey outcomes that would not exactly be featured in an completely open G42 game.    People send in everything to die in one last ditch effort to stop or achieve Economic Victory.  Buys on the last turn are not game-affecting for several teams.

    That would lead to a question, is it “tournament” balanced, or “generally” balanced.  The G42 scenario comes to a certain head around turn 7-8 (when the KJF/KIF/KGF is in full swing)

    but several things I said “would never happen” such as seeing Moscow (x1) London (x2) Japan (x1) or Sydney (x1) fall in this tournament, did come true 6 times!



  • @taamvan:

    I believe that the axis won 7 or 8 of the 10 or 11 G42 games played (perhaps all without a bid), so your conclusion is shared by many…but not myself.

    The victory condition and tournament time meant that many people stipulated or played to exactly 7 turns (unless opponents conceded the victory). This predictable end creates some gamey outcomes that would not exactly be featured in an completely open G42 game. People send in everything to die in one last ditch effort to stop or achieve Economic Victory. Buys on the last turn are not game-affecting for several teams.

    That would lead to a question, is it “tournament” balanced, or “generally” balanced. The G42 scenario comes to a certain head around turn 7-8 (when the KJF/KIF/KGF is in full swing)

    but several things I said “would never happen” such as seeing Moscow (x1) London (x2) Japan (x1) or Sydney (x1) fall in this tournament, did come true 6 times!

    This just confirms my belief that my Victory Token house rules would make a great tournament format… now I just need to test them under those conditions.

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=38351.0


  • 2018 2017 2016

    The G42 setup is balanced under tournament rules. However, if you play out the game instead of stopping at the end of 7 rounds then the setup is clearly in the allies favor. However, I believe it is more balanced than Global 1940. I’ve been playing G42 regularly since it was released and can attest to the above.

    I agree with Tamvann, G42 endings are very gamey.

    I hope to play your token version at some point Younggrasshopper.


  • 2018 2017 2016

    We had a bid in each of the tournament games we played, 3 to allies in the first and 3 to axis in the second. Neither had much impact.



  • @siparo:

    We had a bid in each of the tournament games we played, 3 to allies in the first and 3 to axis in the second. Neither had much impact.

    So the difference was an extra infantry unit somewhere?


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