• So, I have a question for those well versed in the game. Had a game this passed weekend where the Japanese player had 7 battleships and also managed to take all but 2 Chinese territories. also while breaking Mongolia pact and cleaning that out. This was all by end of turn 4 and without taking money islands. I played on Europe half so I wasn’t paying too much attention but this sounds a little too much to me. Could there have been some cheating  on buys and dice play?  I’m trying to figure out if should never invite that player again or were the allies just that bad.


  • Well how far was he into India, if he just stomped mainland Asia he could maybe afford some Battle ships by j4. How many players were playing in Pacific and how experienced were they, ask them if he was doing something fishy.


  • He didn’t go into India, just China and north Russia. And not into money Dutch islands. Fyi he has been caught cheating in the passed and this is second game he was Japan where it just seemed outrageous the size of navy while completely taking out two nations while avoiding Dutch islands.


  • I’d have to see it to tell you, sorry


  • Well it is certainly possible to have 7 battleships if war was not declared on UK considering that would cost 100IPCs (Japan starts with 2) and if Japan averages about 40-45 a turn with the NO and Chinese/Russian territories they will definitely have enough money. Did it look like he purchased much else besides BB?

    Also it is definitely possible to take China and Russia by J4 if no resources are used in the money islands and the Air Force is being used. So it is certainly possible even if not too likely. It is impossible to be sure though without seeing the board.

    Although it may look like Japan is dominating this scenario does not sound very good as India should have a large army by now and the Japan should be low on land units after buying so many BBs.


  • ….maybe he was just lucky with the dice, man


  • Thanks… Lol. Guess I’m untrustworthy. Caught the guys number of times cheating and I’m ultra suspicious now. Guess I need to learn me some Pacific strategy.

  • 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    If he conquered China and Mongolia by moving his seven battleships out of the water and using them as land units, he was definitely cheating.  😄

  • '17 '16 Customizer

    One thing my buddies & I do when making our purchases is we hand the IPC bills we spend (I still use the paper IPC’s) to the opposing player. That players double checks the amount against the purchases then returns the IPCs to the “bank” and hand back any change if required. After years of experience, this works well to speed up the game and eliminate any “concerns” about a players honesty. We all do make honest mistakes too so this just keeps things fair.

  • 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I once read a book about tabletop wargaming (the kind that uses painted miniatures) in which the author made an interesting comment about player honesty.  He said that in his experience of wargaming, which is extensive, he’s found that dedicated wargamers are ingenious and resourceful people who will sometimes find imaginative ways to push the rules to their limits…but that they would be horrified by the notion of actually cheating.  Hardcore gamers are able to appreciate a dangerously clever opponent who does unexpected things, as long as they’re done honestly, but nobody wants to play with a cheat.


  • Yeah, to be sure I guess next game I’ll have the “banker” double check all purchases.
    I definitely do think having all of china, mongolia and east russia conquered AND building such a navy by turn 4 is a little extreme.


  • Our group uses poker chips for our money. When someone makes a purchase, we just stack the units on top of the respective chip(s) so everyone can clearly see what the purchase is and how it’s being paid for.

    Regardless of how you check the money, a dedicated cheater will still find ways to cheat.

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    @CWO:

    I once read a book about tabletop wargaming (the kind that uses painted miniatures) in which the author made an interesting comment about player honesty. He said that in his experience of wargaming, which is extensive, he’s found that dedicated wargamers are ingenious and resourceful people who will sometimes find imaginative ways to push the rules to their limits…but that they would be horrified by the notion of actually cheating. Hardcore gamers are able to appreciate a dangerously clever opponent who does unexpected things, as long as they’re done honestly, but nobody wants to play with a cheat. �

    I can totally identify with this, I was defending Sydney from a Japanese landing one game years ago. I scrambled 1 fighter to negate 4 bombardments which helped me save my capital with 3 units left. The game went on for about a half hour at which time I realized that I made a mistake and couldn’t have scrambled due to the fact that there was no airbase on Sydney. No one else saw this but me, and even though I could lose the game… I hardly hesitated when I said to everyone “we have to reroll the Sydney battle”. I guess Karma was on my side for being honest as I rolled amazing and still saved Sydney  🙂

    “Hardcore gamers are able to appreciate a dangerously clever opponent who does unexpected things, as long as they’re done honestly”

    This should be the A&A code among gamers… not only can we appreciate a dangerously clever opponent, but we can become one ourselves… cheating robs us of that honor.


  • Thanks all for opinions on the matter. I honestly hate cheaters. We have one in our group who has been caught over the years playing risk. Now that we’ve switched to A&A, loving the game so much more, there is more room for cheating and the last two game sessions I feel have been ruined by it.

  • 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @Young:

    cheating robs us of that honor.

    Well said.  A victory that’s earned honestly is satisfying in ways that a dishonest victory can’t deliver.  Winning by cheating is basically the gaming equivalent of consuming empty calories.  It’s a bit like that line in Citizen Kane in which Mr. Bernstein scoffs at Mr Thompson’s reference to Mr. Thatcher, a deceased Wall Street tycoon: “Thatcher? That man was the biggest darn fool I ever met!”  Mr. Thompson notes that Mr. Thatcher made a lot of money, to which Mr. Bernstein replies, “Well, there’s no trick to making a lot of money…if all you want out of life is to make a lot of money.”


  • Yeah, I’m in agreement I’d rather lose fair than cheat. So this leaves with a hard decision. Not inviting said individual would cut group in half down to 2. His brother also plays so if I say no to one the other wouldn’t come. Gotta figure out a way to ensure no cheating.


  • we always announce our builds and put them in the middle of Russia or the south atlantic(depending what side of the board you are on) so that everyone has a chance to see & count the IPCs.  I also use paper money that is put into the bank and announce any change remaining after the buy.  I’d suggest doing that in the future so you dont have to ask these kinds of questions

    another thing that we do when we are chipping units out is announce what we are doing as we do it IE, i say"Removing 5 units" (show them in my palm) then, “and placing a red”… (then place the red chip down)  We all trust each other and could do it silently but this saves people from having to stop anyone when we’re doing something and allows the game to flow naturally.

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16

    Best strategy against the bulk of BB’s is mass Subs combined with Bmbrs.
    Good luck and

    TORPEDO LOS, LOS, LOS! (go, go, go) 🙂

    Just be patient with him and show him how honesty pays off everytime.


  • yeah I guess next time I see that happening I’ll ask the India/ANZAC and US player to pump subs out. ANZAC usually does NOTHING in our games.

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    @Guymyer:

    yeah I guess next time I see that happening I’ll ask the India/ANZAC and US player to pump subs out. ANZAC usually does NOTHING in our games.

    ANZAC’s role is to be a pest… they at least have to be a pest.

  • 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16

    @Guymyer:

    yeah I guess next time I see that happening I’ll ask the India/ANZAC and US player to pump subs out. ANZAC usually does NOTHING in our games.

    Well, ANZAC has to treat an early loss of India as a threat.

    If Japan is going after Russia, ANZAC should be shuttling defenses to India so that India can shuttle defenses to Moscow and also contesting the money islands. If Japan is going over India, ANZAC should be contesting the money islands and building ANZAC defenses so that after India falls ANZAC is not ripe for the picking.

    In short, whatever Japan is trying to do, ANZAC should make it harder for Japan to accomplish that. Same thing with China.

    Marsh


  • @Marshmallow:

    @Guymyer:

    yeah I guess next time I see that happening I’ll ask the India/ANZAC and US player to pump subs out. ANZAC usually does NOTHING in our games.

    Well, ANZAC has to treat an early loss of India as a threat.

    If Japan is going after Russia, ANZAC should be shuttling defenses to India so that India can shuttle defenses to Moscow and also contesting the money islands. If Japan is going over India, ANZAC should be contesting the money islands and building ANZAC defenses so that after India falls ANZAC is not ripe for the picking.

    In short, whatever Japan is trying to do, ANZAC should make it harder for Japan to accomplish that. Same thing with China.

    Marsh

    QFT -  I actually took all 3 dutch money islands plush french indo from japan as anzac in my last allied game, managed to get anzac income up to about 32 or 33IPC(with bonuses) by the end of the game.  It was fantastic lol

  • 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @Guymyer:

    Yeah, I’m in agreement I’d rather lose fair than cheat. So this leaves with a hard decision. Not inviting said individual would cut group in half down to 2. His brother also plays so if I say no to one the other wouldn’t come. Gotta figure out a way to ensure no cheating.

    The second, third and fourth chapters of the novel Goldfinger, in which James Bond is hired by a rich American businessman to figure out whether or not Auric Goldfinger – who’s been fleecing the businessman for a week at double-handed canasta – is cheating, make the point that in order to devise effective countermeasures against a cheat you first have to determine exactly how he’s cheating in the first place.  You’ve mentioned that you’ve caught your opponent a few times, so you must already have some idea of what you need to guard against, but your question “Could there have been some cheating on buys and dice play?” suggests that there’s still some uncertainty about what kind of tricks this fellow might be pulling.  Reading “Scarne on Cards” for advice (as Bond does in another novel where he’s trying to catch a card cheat; I think it was Moonraker) isn’t going to be of any help to you in an A&A context, but perhaps some of the folks here can offer a few pointers on what types of deceptions they’ve run into in their own A&A games.  If (which you indicate is a possibility) there’s some dice-rolling trickery going on, a dice tower might help to eliminate that part of the problem.

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    Nice post CWO Marc, and I agree. If you suspect someone cheating, don’t confront him without proof. Allow him to keep cheating while you watch and document his activities. Than present your case and kick him to the curb.

  • 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @Young:

    and kick him to the curb.

    Or at least out of the League of Nations.

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