• Sorry if I’m retreading old territory - I’m still trying to get a feel for the board and searching topics.

    But does anyone have any experience with Germany softening up France on their turn, but actually leaving it for Italy to clean up, take the IPCs and the territory? I could see an advantage here, giving Italy a huge reserve to draw on to dominate the med. Obviously it tightens things for Germany, but does having 2 economies closer in parity make sense?


  • With still limited experience in Global I will post my two cents but I’m sure there are others who will post after that can give you a for sure yay or nay to this question. Personally I don’t think a German strafe on France is not a good idea. For one, as Germany you would have to make sure that your strafe is almost perfect(no inf, art left) at least. If you put too much you end up taking France anyways and with too little might leave Italy with a bit more then they can handle. If Paris survives to a F1 and can actually purchase units and fortify that capital, bad news for Axis.

    Also, I think Germany needs those 19 IPCs from France more then Italy does, believe it or not. I see Italy as the little helper, if will be Germany attacking and fending off te USSR and UK and possibly the USA. If they don’t steal those IPCs, they enter G2 with with less money, perhaps the threat of throwing down a bunch of transports to make a legit threat to London is off the table and UK can build other units other then infantry and fighters for the defence of London, maybe even a factory somewhere else or something. More importantly, UK can fly fighters into Paris for extra defence as they go before Italy in the turn sequence. As an allied player seeing this happen I would immediately go to a KGF strategy no matter what my previous plans where. Again this is my opinion and maybe others have had success with it? I’ve never seen it done yet in my experience so I am a bit biased to be doubtful


  • I played the Axis in that fashion. I left France for Italy (after softening) and had Germany concentrate on the British fleet and Sealion. It was an early success, knocked the UK out of the picture almost immediately and gave Italy a boost, but ultimately that cost Germany too much to defend a strong Russia.

    Once Italy had to help Germany defend the Russian onslaught, the US had an open door through Africa.

    The way I see it (in my limited scope) is even with Italy’s boost, they’re never strong enough to hold off the Allies. The only way is use Germany’s wealth (post Russia conquer) to build Festung Europa.


  • @ausf:

    I played the Axis in that fashion. I left France for Italy (after softening) and had Germany concentrate on the British fleet and Sealion. It was an early success, knocked the UK out of the picture almost immediately and gave Italy a boost, but ultimately that cost Germany too much to defend a strong Russia.

    Once Italy had to help Germany defend the Russian onslaught, the US had an open door through Africa.

    The way I see it (in my limited scope) is even with Italy’s boost, they’re never strong enough to hold off the Allies. The only way is use Germany’s wealth (post Russia conquer) to build Festung Europa.

    So, even with a successful Sealion, Germany wasn’t strong enough to go after Russia? I would think that the boost to Italy would make them strong enough to make a US landing in Africa unpalatable AND approach Russia from the south via the Middle East.


  • Grabbing the UK doesn’t get enough IPCs to realistically offset the Russia rise if allowed to build. At least in my experience, the expenditure in treasure to invade (even a weak UK) and the loss of some Luftwaffe to eliminate the UK fleet make it costly. If Russia builds up the border…

    The most attractive part is taking away the UK’s ability to purchase, but even if it’s relatively easy to do early on, you have to sacrifice something. If you wait until after France falls and add some defense or invade Russia, the UK gets too strong to pull off.

    I’ve found everytime I go Sealion, I think I’m on my way to a crushing defeat, but there’s just so much territory to defend.

    Whenever I’m successful with the Axis, it’s a Blitz on France and then an immediate burst into Russia on one front, making them try to guess where the next Blitz is or counter with infantry. Once taking either Stalingrad or Leningrad to shorten the supply chain, it’s a race of attrition vs US/UK intervention.  If Germany grabs enough IPCs, it can afford to compete with the US.

    Italy has to be successful against the UK in the Med and Africa, to protect the underbelly.

  • '18 '16

    You should always take France with Germany. Germany needs the IPC’s to get the Barbarossa army purchased on the next turn. You can usually bank at least 70 IPC for next turn with Denmark NO, no attack USSR NO, France, Normandy, Bulgaria, Finland, Yugoslavia and France IPC capture.
    I usually on G2 buy 10 art in Germany and 7 mechs that catch up on turn 3 when the party starts in Russia. Sometimes I do get 3 ftrs or 2 bombers and a tank just depends on how much air power UK has left. I like to strategic bomb UK so they are forced to buy everything in South Africa or Quebec or build a mIC in Persia.
    This is how I like to do it and you can do it anyway you want.

    The main point is that Germany needs the money to get as ready as possible for a long slog to Moscow. Italy will never be in charge of anything but can opener moves in USSR, defense of France/Normandy and the African campaign if they can get one going.


  • @seancb:

    I like to strategic bomb UK so they are forced to buy everything in South Africa or Quebec or build a mIC in Persia.
    This is how I like to do it and you can do it anyway you want.

    Wouldn’t it be easier from the UK perspective to repair the IC in the UK as opposed to shipping in from the stretches of the empire? With the newer IC rules, it seems like strat bombing takes much more of an effort to make an effective difference since they can still build  (albeit not at full cap) until the value hits “0”

  • 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16

    Seems to me like this is more of a fallback position – I can’t imagine the money helping Italy as much as it helps Germany.

    Marsh

  • '18 '16

    It would be easier but it would also reduce the amount of money UK can spend if they are paying for damages. So it is perfect for Germany this way. I usually strike all the bases as well this eliminates any opportunity to scramble or at least makes UK pay for the ability to scramble. The interceptors have to make a choice at that point and if you bring enough fighters they won’t intercept at all.


  • Bad idea in my opinion. That G1 strafe on Paris would need to be perfect, otherwise Italy isn’t taking France. (I’m going off of memory here) UK can fly in a total of 7 air (1bmb & 6ftr) before Italy goes. Italy can only throw 8 units at Paris, so you really risk not taking Paris on I1. And with that much air plus at least 6 more ground pounders + 1ftr on F1, Germany could be left unable to take it on G2 depending on purchases and movements.

    That’s not even accounting for Germany needing that money for its own offensives. I fail to see how a Germany sans the Paris money can mount a legitimate SL unless the UK player completely ignores defending against it.


  • You should always strafe France with Germany and take it with Italy. And that is IMHO for sure, man. There are several reasons for this. First, this is a balanced game and every strategy is equal, because the map and territory income is designed to support all kinds of operational directions. In the real world it would be derogatory to place Italy behind the wheel and go for Africa first, but in all A&A games it is a rational idea, since the designer gave Africa like 20 IPC income, Middle East 8 and on top of that Italy can get as much as 15 IPC NO if they control the Med and adjacent territories. Plus the 9 from France and possible some from Romania and Bulgaria too, we are talking from 50 to 60 Italian IPC every turn, man. Second, its pretty boring to play the same strategy over and over again, so this will fresh it up.

    The beauty about this is the surprise, nobody expects it. But you cant be narrow minded, you must think in a new way, kind of like the Dark Sky way. Italy must be the aggressive and Germany must turtle.

    First, Germany must make a perfect strafe on France and Romania, and at the same time sink as many ships as possible, and send a Fig and Tac to Italy and Tobruk. Buy Bombers and make sure UK cant build much on that island.

    Now the Allied players should be pretty confused. Is this a trick, a bait or just outright retarded play from the Axis team ? I expect a lot of WTF,s and OMG,s from the Allied players. Maybe UK send a ton of aircrafts to France ? That is good news, now the Italian fleet survive, and a lot of expansive and valuable allied units are gathered in a killing zone.

    Further down the road, and I cant stress this enough, Germany must keep on doing perfect strafes on France until Italy can take it and hold it, and buy tons of infantry to turtle against Russia, maybe even an occasional artillery and Tank too, and keep SBR UK.

    Italy must take Africa and the Middel East, threaten Russia from the Caucasus area, and threaten West India too, maybe in a joint operation together with Japan ?

    Of course this need some play testing, but I am not able to see why it cant work the first time you pull it of against some unprepared casual player.

    If this strategy dont have a name yet, I would suggest Benitos way, or Benito is the driver, or Fuhrer Benito, or something up that alley

  • 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16

    The primary issue with Italy taking France as I see it is not so much that Germany really needs the cash (Italy without a doubt needs it more) but the way Italy would need to use the cash and the general lack of control Italy has overall.

    Once Italy has the money, the UK has aleady had its first turn and taken some action to debilitate Italy in the Med. For Italy to use the French money to contest Africa and the Middle East, it has to build with the money on I2 and can’t use the money until I3. Even then, because it probably needs to build some kind of naval forces (at the very least a transport), that money from France just doesn’t go very far for Italy. If the UK is firmly in control in the Med, then Italy can’t even risk a transport build, which rules out any attempt to contest Africa and the Middle East.

    Marsh

  • 2020 '18 '17

    The best thing Italy can do is can-open, period.  The more mechs and men it has to do this, the better, and so a mixed 60/40 German/Italian front is fine.  Russia will find it impossible to back-stack its reserve armies because they cannot screen the Italians out and then the German Armor will run through the holes the Italians make.  Its devastating and its why the bid is pretty much required.

    If Germany and Italy can both get StratBombers, even better because all of them can fly to China and start can-opening in waves, for Japan.

    Italy often gets nerfed by Taranto, but in the case you get lucky or the player doesn’t do it, Going Italy + Bulgaria +SFrance + Paris + 19 IPC is awesome because you will have about 40-50 income on I4-5, and you’re like a baby Germany.

    And, if they decided to KGF or KIF, you buy a bunch of fighters and men instead, projecting threat and preventing UK and US from coordinating their attacks.

Suggested Topics

  • 4
  • 20
  • 10
  • 66
  • 15
  • 15
  • 26
  • 13
I Will Never Grow Up Games
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys

73
Online

15.1k
Users

35.9k
Topics

1.5m
Posts