Could be simplified even further by a build up for six transports hitting SFE about the time that IJN rounds the Malacca strait. And every turn after, six tanks. Of course, it looks like a KJF, but you would be committing 100 to Pac but send them or some of them through Siberia to Moscow.
The Spanish Beachhead: American Strategy
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Another great video, YG. Thanks for posting. Any chance you could write a list of the first four rounds of purchases for the U.S.?
I will add that info to the first post soon.
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@Young:
Another great video, YG. Thanks for posting. Any chance you could write a list of the first four rounds of purchases for the U.S.?
I will add that info to the first post soon.
Done.
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Just did the Spanish Beachhead on a big game last Sat. Allies won. Bid was 20 IPC , cash only to USSR.
US attacked Spain on Turn 5… (US brought troops to Gib on US4).
UK took Turkey , same turn.Couple of pointers:
US1 should buy all Pac, I bought 3 CVs…all planes go to Pac, to deny JapanSydney/Hawaii…till US resumes spending on US4 in Pacific…and then every other turn.Going to Gib with 11 TRs, loaded, makes W. Germany and Rome well defended, and puts pressure on both Axis.
The turn US goes into Spain from Gib…the TRs return to E. Coast.
The next turn, the forces in Spain go into S. France… and 20 units dropped off into Spain from East Coast…
The next turn, both Northerm and S. Italy fall.
Plz keep US planes on the Gib Airbase…so they can hit Rome and land on CV.
TRs, can pick US Tanks in S. France…e route to Rome, if you need more of a punch.
It helps if UK:
- Builds Airbase in Gib, keeps 3 planes…
- Takes Normandy the same turn US hits S. France…prevents Paris forces hitting Spanish mIC.
- Keep 3-4 UK planes, SBR in Syria…the turn before UK hits Turkey.
- Persia mIC on UK2, giving 2 M+T on UK3, will help…as they can hit Turkey…and if you have 2 T+3M… then…Next turn Greece, Bulgaria, Albania all fall… and if there is a vaccuum…esp if Germany is locked in Bryansk… then Yugo, Romania, G.S. Germany all fall…and pretty much UK IPC goes up like crazy.
- As Germany is defending W. Germ and attacking Moscow… Italy building up in Rome… the Balkans will not be well defended…
- US should sacrifice a TR via Iceland to take Norway. .to add extra headache for Germany.
- French troops loaded on TR increases need for more Italians in Paris… so 11 TRS is optimum…for 3 N. African Frenchmen…3 spots
MH
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@Young:
Well that makes much more sense, may I ask what that house rule is?
Victory Objectives and Victory Tokens
Once a victory objective is achieved, a victory token will be awarded, the side with the most victory tokens at the end of the day wins the game. Victory tokens are awarded immediately upon completion regardless of when, or how the objective was achieved, and a token can never be taken away or awarded twice for the same objective. It doesn’t matter which round the game ends, however, a win or a tie can only be declared at the end of a full game round.
Optional Rule: The first side to achieve 3 victory tokens will immediately win the game.
New Research & Development Rule:
Research rolls are no longer used to develop breakthroughs, instead, nations are awarded development rolls when victory objectives have been achieved. Once a victory token is gained, the nation with the corresponding (*) instructions listed with each objective will choose a breakthrough chart, and make a free development roll with the resulting breakthrough taking effect immediately (may not effect units already in battle during the turn in which the breakthrough was rolled). Any breakthroughs gained by either UK Europe, or UK Pacific will be shared between both UK nations throughout the game.
Here is a list of all victory objectives for each side…
Axis Powers
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London
The Axis control London
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Moscow
The Axis control Moscow
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Calcutta
The Axis control Calcutta
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Sydney
The Axis control Sydney
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
North Africa
The Axis control Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Tobruk, Alexandria, and Egypt.
(R&D) *The nation that controls the most -
Pacific
The Axis control 6 victory cities on the Pacific map
(R&D) *The nation that controls the most -
Europe
The Axis control 7 victory cities on the Europe map
(R&D) *The nation that controls the most -
Global Economy
All 3 Axis powers have a combined total of 136 IPCs on the income tracker
(R&D) *The nation that controls the most
Allied Powers
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Berlin
The Allies control Berlin
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Rome
The Allies control Rome
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Tokyo
The Allies control Tokyo
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Africa
The Allied powers control all non-neutral territories on the continent of Africa
(R&D) *The nation that controls the most -
Paris Liberation
The Allies have liberated Paris
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Philippines Liberation
The Allies have liberated the Philippines
(R&D) *The United States -
Asia
The Allies control the Burma road as well as Hong Kong and Shanghai
(R&D) *The United Kingdom -
Pacific Fleet
There are no Japanese Capital ships on the board
(R&D) *The United States
i like these, is there a thread containing all of the house rules?
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@Young:
@Young:
Another great video, YG. Thanks for posting. Any chance you could write a list of the first four rounds of purchases for the U.S.?
I will add that info to the first post soon.
Done.
Fantastic. Thanks, man.
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@Young:
Very tricky to contain Japan with such little resources on that side… It sounds like the landings went well, but lost in the Pacific to early in the game. Is that right?
Yeah, pretty much. We packed it in without really declaring a winner, but thinking back I just realized Japan did win it with 6 victory cities: Tokyo, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Manila, Sydney and Honolulu. Pretty sure they had Sydney and Honolulu for at least 1 round. I think the US would have taken both back next round (2 transports, 2 inf & 2 art to go after Hawaii, 2 tanks & 2 halftracks to go after Alaska plus bombers to support both).
Like I said, the turn 2 DOW by Japan threw me off because I was planning it by your example which showed Japan waiting until round 3 or 4. Also, Russia taking Turkey was a little odd, but I think that worked out because UK didn’t have enough resources down there to do it. (UK was having trouble with German subs)
The US landings in Spain did go great. Only lost 2 or 3 infantry and there were several British fighters to support. US then split their force and attacked S. France and Normandy. The S. France battle went really well with the US losing 1 infantry and tromping the Italians good. Normandy was tougher because the Germans put up more of a fight and the US ended up with just 1 tank, 1 art, 1 mech and 2 or 3 infantry left. The Brits helped shore them up though.
I really want to try this again. Obviously I need to think a little more fluidly so if the Axis do something I don’t expect, I can handle it better. My planning was a bit too rigid.
Also, Japan taking Sydney so early was a real fluke. At first I thought Japan was going to keep busy with Russia and China, even though they bought transports. I thought those were for the DEI, not Australia and Hawaii.Oh yeah, I have really got to consider that victory token idea. Looks really interesting.
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@Young:
Very tricky to contain Japan with such little resources on that side… It sounds like the landings went well, but lost in the Pacific to early in the game. Is that right?
Yeah, pretty much. We packed it in without really declaring a winner, but thinking back I just realized Japan did win it with 6 victory cities: Tokyo, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Manila, Sydney and Honolulu. Pretty sure they had Sydney and Honolulu for at least 1 round. I think the US would have taken both back next round (2 transports, 2 inf & 2 art to go after Hawaii, 2 tanks & 2 halftracks to go after Alaska plus bombers to support both).
Like I said, the turn 2 DOW by Japan threw me off because I was planning it by your example which showed Japan waiting until round 3 or 4. Also, Russia taking Turkey was a little odd, but I think that worked out because UK didn’t have enough resources down there to do it. (UK was having trouble with German subs)
The US landings in Spain did go great. Only lost 2 or 3 infantry and there were several British fighters to support. US then split their force and attacked S. France and Normandy. The S. France battle went really well with the US losing 1 infantry and tromping the Italians good. Normandy was tougher because the Germans put up more of a fight and the US ended up with just 1 tank, 1 art, 1 mech and 2 or 3 infantry left. The Brits helped shore them up though.
I really want to try this again. Obviously I need to think a little more fluidly so if the Axis do something I don’t expect, I can handle it better. My planning was a bit too rigid.
Also, Japan taking Sydney so early was a real fluke. At first I thought Japan was going to keep busy with Russia and China, even though they bought transports. I thought those were for the DEI, not Australia and Hawaii.Oh yeah, I have really got to consider that victory token idea. Looks really interesting.
Nice report KNP, thanks…
Someone suggested landing in Gibraltar with everything first and than attacking Spain with 2X the land units when landing the second wave of loaded boats with the troops that would also walk in from Gibraltar (Just an idea brought to my attention although I can’t remember from who).
It would be interesting to remember back to that same game and count how many tokens would have been gained, or at least how many tokens could have been easily taken if they were the objective. Also, the techs introduced into your game from these tokens might have reshaped things, one thing is for sure… your game would have ended with a clear winner declared, which is what has made our games much more competitive.
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Very cool video. I have been working on a strategy that applies a lot of these same concepts that you mention. I am convinced that the Allies are meant to declare on the true neutrals.
A couple of things I would like to add.
You mentioned moving fighters to western US to deter the Japanese from coming to Hawaii but with the purchase of the Carrier you are able to still bring all of the fighters. It is just that one set of planes starting on carriers would have to land on one of the islands one sz away. This way you can keep at least one fighter back on eastern us to protect round 1 buy if Germany attacks with 2 subs off Canada.
With this strategy i think it is important for Russia to have a decent stack of art so they can have a sizable offensive force as soon as the second front is opened.
If the allies accept that it is in their best interest to attack the neutrals as soon as logistically possible the best thing UK can do is to stack sz 92 and forgo Taranto turn 1 with a AB purchase for Gib. The next moves involve locking down the middle east. I have a unique set of moves that I make in order to do this and if you would like I am happy to go into detail but to keep this post from being to long i will hold off on the specifics. The end result is that the UK navy is still intact and Egypt/ME is safe. If this is the case the UK navy can then be used to protect sz 91 by the time the US are going to land allowing more money being sent to the pacific.
One quick thing to note is that in my experience if Taranto is skipped Italy will then sometimes spend money on navy which plays right into hands of the allies with even less land units to deal with once the beach head is opened up.
Like i said this is a great video and I really appreciate the time you spent in making this.
Keep up the great work.
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AldoRaine has a good point about forgoing the Taranto run, building an AB for Gib, and keeping the UK Med navy intact to supplement the Atlantic fleet down the road. On UK1 it is possible to block out the Italians from hitting it in sz92, but the Germans could attempt to air sweep the UK fleet in sz 92 if the Italians open up a landing spot. This means the Luftwaffe takes a hit though so the Atlantic fleet would be easier to def (fewer ships). Building an AB for Gib UK1 is rather risky too depending on German purchases. Plus leaving the Italians w/2 transports and a good size navy might help the axis counter attack Spain by land and sea (would depend on axis positioning). All these possibilities and what ifs are making my head hurt LOL.
I had mentioned in the second post of this thread about loading up Gib w/units in preparation to attacking Spain. I was the first to think about doing it in our small group, but I’m sure it has been around for awhile. MeinHerr must also be familiar with this tactic as he sighted it in his after action report. I think it would be pretty cool if you tried it in the Bunker, and it ended up in your video as one of many possibilities. Once that happens though the cat will be out of the bag, so you’ll have to off load your transports on to Gib all the time to try to disguise it as best you can LOL
You build up your defensive Euor fleet w/many loaded transports (somewhere around 7-10 transports depending on purchases, and Axis capabilities). Around turn 3-4 (once US is at war), you float over to sz91, and off load your units onto Gib from sz91. You are in position to attack multiple territories, so Axis have to still set-up def or block several places. You would have built more transports on that turn in sz 101 and units for them (should include AAA guns you have at set-up to NCM in). Then on the next turn walk into Spain from Gib, and bring in your newly built loaded transports from the US coast for the attack on Spain, along with your carrier planes. In the same turn as the attack you then NCM your original transports that were off loaded the turn before back to the US coast to reload them for your next wave (need to build more ground units and maybe air to get to Spain next turn). This will allow you to have transports going back-n-forth every turn with reinforcements, instead of one large load every other turn.
Just as a side note to throw them off, as I off load my transports on to Gib, I would point out that although I have overwhelming odds in the battle of sz91, I’m putting my troops on land in case you decide to offer up a human sacrifice to the dice gods and try to hit me.
I will say YG that I would normally not strip down the the Pac side quite as much as you did in your video. My US Euro fleet wouldn’t be quite as large as yours, but I would supplement it w/UK. UK also needs to have ground units ready to go (maybe take Portugal too), and the RAF needs to be ready to land Spain the on their turn to protect my US ground troops (which are plentiful, but rather weak in def). I like how you send the Pac transport to help get the Brazilians over.
I also like the sub warfare you propose in the Pac, but I think you need a little more back bone to pull it off and keep the Japanese from easily getting Sidney/Hawaii. That is why I would favor more UK involvement in defending the Euro fleet.
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If the allies accept that it is in their best interest to attack the neutrals as soon as logistically possible the best thing UK can do is to stack sz 92 and forgo Taranto turn 1 with a AB purchase for Gib. The next moves involve locking down the middle east. I have a unique set of moves that I make in order to do this and if you would like I am happy to go into detail but to keep this post from being to long i will hold off on the specifics. The end result is that the UK navy is still intact and Egypt/ME is safe.
I would very much appreciate this explanation as I’m sure others would as well.
Also, another great video YG. I’m looking forward to your mentioned remake of your tutorial series with added strategy and run through’s(mentioned in channel update).
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@ProtesT:
If the allies accept that it is in their best interest to attack the neutrals as soon as logistically possible the best thing UK can do is to stack sz 92 and forgo Taranto turn 1 with a AB purchase for Gib. The next moves involve locking down the middle east. I have a unique set of moves that I make in order to do this and if you would like I am happy to go into detail but to keep this post from being to long i will hold off on the specifics. The end result is that the UK navy is still intact and Egypt/ME is safe.
I would very much appreciate this explanation as I’m sure others would as well.
Also, another great video YG. I’m looking forward to your mentioned remake of your tutorial series with added strategy and run through’s(mentioned in channel update).
This is the part of the strategy that I have been working on. I assume a bid of at least 12. With 12 I buy 2 inf and 1 sub. The sub goes either off Gib with the cruiser or off Egypt with the carrier. The two inf will go in Alexandria and Egypt. Part of the combat is attacking the Italian Transport off Malta with the sub, the tac from the carrier and fighter from malta. This battle is absolutely critical for this strategy. The path must be clear for the navy to stack sz 92. The only other attack is Iraq. Unless i am doing low luck I attack Iraq with the lone mech from Egypt. If he survives one round retreat to Jordan if not oh well.
The reason for the suicide in Iraq is so that the two planes in India can now land in Jordan as well.
For non-com I move the west India inf to eastern persia. Use the transport on India along with 1 inf to activate Persia. Use the transport off Egypt to pick up the inf and AA in malta and drop them in either Egypt or Jordan. I pull all the troops from Sudan back to Egypt and all but 1 from Alex back to Egypt. Ideally you want 3 land units in Jordan along with the fighters and the rest in Egypt. With this you should be able to hold both.
As mentioned before I stack sz 92 with every ship that can reach and buy an AB for Gibraltar. I also move every ship east of Africa as close to the med as possible. This includes the BB off Malaya and the Cruiser and destroyer off India. The idea is that you can then converge the UK navy in the Med round 2 in sz 93. I also buy an AB for Jordan round 2 just to add extra protection. This also allows fighters to flow from London to Gib then Jordan then India. As long as you hold sz 93 Egypt is safe even if Italy stacks both Sudan and Alex.
The major downfall in this strat is that it leaves the Italian navy alive but i find that leaving it can actually lull the Italians into thinking they can make a fight of the med and then start buying navy. This plays right into the Spanish beachhead as it leaves the Italians even weaker on land. It also leaves India weak but I am a firm believer in stacking India and not moving much and with the AB in Jordan you can get a sizable UK air force in India by round 5. Full disclosure, I know my pacific allied game needs work.
I hope this gives you an idea of what I am saying. When trying this strategy I usually find myself spending the first 3-4 turns as UK london buying AB’s and IC’s for the med / africa. It seems like a waste but I just find them very useful for projecting power as the UK from the Middle East.
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What if Italy drops off 2T+2Inf on Syria on Italy 1 (assuming you go to SZ92 with your Egyptian Navy… on UK1 ), Germany lands FTRs on Syria on G2… Bulgarians take Greece G2
I2 drops off 4 Inf in Syria… and Transjordan and Alexandria are strongly Italian Held…
Even without any Italian Investment in navy… just overland they could take Egypt… or if not… then the Middle East…
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What if Italy drops off 2T+2Inf on Syria on Italy 1 (assuming you go to SZ92 with your Egyptian Navy… on UK1 ), Germany lands FTRs on Syria on G2… Bulgarians take Greece G2
I2 drops off 4 Inf in Syria… and Transjordan and Alexandria are strongly Italian Held…
Even without any Italian Investment in navy… just overland they could take Egypt… or if not… then the Middle East…
The problem is you are assuming that 2 Italian Transports survived and it is more than likely only 1 did
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What if Italy drops off 2T+2Inf on Syria on Italy 1 (assuming you go to SZ92 with your Egyptian Navy… on UK1 ), Germany lands FTRs on Syria on G2… Bulgarians take Greece G2
I2 drops off 4 Inf in Syria… and Transjordan and Alexandria are strongly Italian Held…
Even without any Italian Investment in navy… just overland they could take Egypt… or if not… then the Middle East…
If Italy lands troops in Syria r1 I then I can attack the navy on UK 2 with up to 5 fighters, 2 tacs, 1 bomber and 1 destroyer. At least 1 fighter and 1 tac can land back on Egypt. This would give Italy a best case chance of 11% to take Egypt round 2 and that is as close as they will ever get. Italy has no way of getting more troops into Africa. Plus the whole scenario plays right into the allies hand. Italy will fall early if they commit to much to africa if US is going this hard in the Atlantic.
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I did write in ( assuming you go to SZ92 with Egyptian navy)… scenario of No Tobruk and No Taranto… after taking in the UK play on Turn1
The Syrian drop off, is a scenario only when the UK Egyptian fleet goes to SZ 92, East of Gib on UK1.
Also where UK keeps the air is important. DD blocker in Malta is impt too.
If the SBR goes to kill Subs in Canada (lets say there are 2-3 Uboats there) … FTRS from London stay in London (due to fear of SeaLion) …FTRS from India stay in India (J3 crush scenario)… then usually RAF will have 3 planes (TB, Gib FTR, Malta FTR) only + maybe SA -DD… enough to kill Italian Fleet (BB+2 CRU)? Close call…
In these circumstances, UK is likely to be more prudent and turtle Egypt. If they lose the battle to kill the BB+ 2 CRU+ Sub+ 2 TRs… (unless the French DD can kill the TRs… ) Egypt and Middle East will be in serious jeapordy.
In case they turtle Egypt… then Middle East is in play… and Soviets or India may have to help out quick… because… if Iraq is held for a whole turn , with 3+ German FTRS there… things can go bad for Allies.
This a play Italy has to make and take its chances (even if SBR is there in striking range)… again, if no Taranto and no Tobruk.
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I did write in ( assuming you go to SZ92 with Egyptian navy)… scenario of No Tobruk and No Taranto… after taking in the UK play on Turn1
The Syrian drop off, is a scenario only when the UK Egyptian fleet goes to SZ 92, East of Gib on UK1.
Also where UK keeps the air is important. DD blocker in Malta is impt too.
If the SBR goes to kill Subs in Canada (lets say there are 2-3 Uboats there) … FTRS from London stay in London (due to fear of SeaLion) …FTRS from India stay in India (J3 crush scenario)… then usually RAF will have 3 planes (TB, Gib FTR, Malta FTR) only + maybe SA -DD… enough to kill Italian Fleet (BB+2 CRU)? Close call…
In these circumstances, UK is likely to be more prudent and turtle Egypt. If they lose the battle to kill the BB+ 2 CRU+ Sub+ 2 TRs… (unless the French DD can kill the TRs… ) Egypt and Middle East will be in serious jeapordy.
In case they turtle Egypt… then Middle East is in play… and Soviets or India may have to help out quick… because… if Iraq is held for a whole turn , with 3+ German FTRS there… things can go bad for Allies.
This a play Italy has to make and take its chances (even if SBR is there in striking range)… again, if no Taranto and no Tobruk.
I would agree Italy should take its chances. But the SBR would be in Gib along with at least 3 fighters. There is no spare destroyer to kill the subs off Canada since all ships that can reach sz92 were sent there. Yes it is unfortunate that the subs will get to convoy but the SBR and destroyer are better used early in the med. Unless Germany bought 2 transports r1 the UK can afford to and should send at least 3 fighters to Gib. This means if the Italian navy leaves sz 97 it will not get far.
So lets say Italy goes to Syria loses its transports but takes Iraq with help of German air force. I can see the argument that this is good except for the fact that the USA is coming and Italy has most likely bought very little in terms of defensive units.
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There is also this scenario, I have faced playing Italy…
The German player wants to only kill the Atlantic fleet and will not land planes in Tobruk or Rome. Germany wanting to get to Moscow on G5/G6… Moscow or bust. CRU off Gib lives…no attack on it.
The Japanese player wants to DOW on J2 , and wants to get India by J5…
You as the Italian player have to :
A) Provide 2 Tanks and FTR+SBR as can opener.
B) Defend Rome and Paris
C) Once Moscow and India fall, Italy is promised to be let off the leashIn that scenario… if there is No Tobruk/Taranto… then , it is preferable to use the 2 Transports to WITHDRAW troops from Libya and Tobruk… (and hit Greece with these)
There are 5+2 = 7 troops (Tank+Mech+2 Art+ 3 Inf) = 27IPCs = 3.5 TRloads… worth a lot of money… that can be used defensively…in Rome… allowing for the Albanian and N. Italian tanks to go forth as can-openers.
If you do not withdraw them… they will be killed for cheap by UK/US… and achieve nothing twiddling their thumbs in Tripoli
Just a thought…
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If the allies accept that it is in their best interest to attack the neutrals as soon as logistically possible the best thing UK can do is to stack sz 92 and forgo Taranto turn 1 with a AB purchase for Gib. The next moves involve locking down the middle east. I have a unique set of moves that I make in order to do this and if you would like I am happy to go into detail but to keep this post from being to long i will hold off on the specifics. The end result is that the UK navy is still intact and Egypt/ME is safe. If this is the case the UK navy can then be used to protect sz 91 by the time the US are going to land allowing more money being sent to the pacific.
This point increases the strength of your strategy. I’m struggling to come up with a counter to it. The obvious counter seems to be sea lion but the naval power projection from SZ92 to SZ109 and SZ110 makes things hard.
I still wonder if you wouldn’t be better off doing Taranto anyway just keeping the CV out. The sub bid in SZ98 makes that a really live option so long as you lose a fighter in the attack. I guess you need a plan B for when that doesn’t happen, a tad under 1 in 6 times: proceed as normal maybe?
I doubt the AB is needed on Gibraltar if Germany has forgone the attack on SZ110. That’s a pretty good fleet you can assemble in SZ92.
Perhaps the best counter is to focus on Japan. You do mention going to a fair bit of length to fly the Calcutta planes to the Middle East. But that’s not much of a counter - more of an admission of defeat.
I guess also going hard against Moscow. G2 DOW is a move I position for as USSR (mainly with a tank in Turkmenistan) but it rarely seems to happen.
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I am not allowed to post links, but Google “Wassom + axis + allies” and you should find the link on YouTube to our game 9 video, deploying the SB strategy. Â Discussion of pros/cons and highlighting some of the discussion on the forum. Â OOB rules; J1 DOW, India fell T4 and Axis won T9. Â
Would love comments/thoughts from the hive mind of the forums. Â In particular, successful strategies for Allied on a coordinated J1 DOW using OOB rules (i.e., no bids). Â I don’t think SB can ever work under these conditions, but I remain open for further (re)education. Â
We will play Game 10 this weekend. Â I am braving the Allies again and trying to slow the J1 DOW war machine. Â Video update to follow.
Thanks, Young Grasshopper, for your continued commitment to additional content. Â We appreciate your efforts and the time you devote to this project.
Chris
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We will play Game 10 this weekend. � I am braving the Allies again and trying to slow the J1 DOW war machine. � Video update to follow.
Good luck.
I don’t DOW on J1 any more. The UK1 Pac buy of 1 arm 1 ftr makes strat bombing difficult for Japan, and unless planes are positioned to strike Sumatra J2 they can’t make it. Bombardment leaves alive the TT too. Anyway, You’ve got a bunch of my other comments so good luck and we’ll be interested to see how it goes.
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