Have to learn a new game…



  • Well, I have been playing Classic A&A for nearly 20 years.  Now I get to learn a new version.  I just received the new Avalon Hill version (revised) as a Christmas Gift.  Get to learn the new version with my wife 🙂

    OK, for those who play both, should I basically forget my old strategies for Classic (since there are several new pieces and lots of new territories and some “blocked” areas, or do most of the old strats just need tweeked a bit?

    And what are going to be the toughest things for me to get used to in the new version compared to Classic?



  • Here’s a couple of helpful links:

    http://dicey.net/revised/index.php?sid=6958f87ef38160f8b2a8d574ce308701

    This contains the most recent official rules revisions to A&A revised. Some of the wording in the box rules allows for ridiculous strategies that make the game lame to play.

    http://www.morrisongames.com/

    This guy wrote a bunch of articles talking about what has changed in the revised version and such; it even has videos of him lecturing on it o_O  I would completely disregard his writings/talk on heavy bombers since the rules revisions has diminished their abusiveness, but everything else he talks about is extremely solid.

    Just my own few quick opinions:

    Many old strategies need to be tweaked to work now. For instance, Karelia no longer contains a complex and the whole german/russian front is cut up a lot more. Also, you can no longer dump troops into western europe in one turn from the US because of the sea zone changes. Also, Germany is in a strong position to contest Africa if he does so quickly. But still the basics of the game remain basically the same: infantry are the foundation of land battles, techs generally aren’t worth the risk, Russia is playing defense, etc. The addition of artillery and upgrade of tanks gives you some leeway to purchase offensive units whereas before it was always infantry and nothing else.

    Probably the toughest thing to get used to in revised is that the Axis has a higher chance to win now when they play smartly and aggressively. It is harder to defend Africa from Germany and it is harder for the US to get into action, and both Axis powers have increased IPC count. Battleships have also become a force to be reckoned with as they can take 2 hits before going down and repair themselves if not destroyed in battle.

    I hope you have a lot of fun exploring the strategies that are open now; there is a lot going on now that has changed from the days of the doomed Axis and pure infantry builds. If you have any other questions let us know!



  • @trihero:

    I hope you have a lot of fun exploring the strategies that are open now; there is a lot going on now that has changed from the days of the doomed Axis and pure infantry builds. If you have any other questions let us know!

    Doomed Axis?  You might want to read a few of my threads over on the Classic board.  If old strats just need to be tweeked, and if the Axis is significantly stronger than under Classic…

    Well let’s just say that after I have had some time to work out the “tweeks”, the Allies may never again see victory!  :evil:

    If only there was a good PC version of Revised with really strong AI… so much faster and easier to work out ideas on a PC than on a board…



  • I believe it’s mathematically certain in the old version that the Allies would win doing a shuck-shuck and flattening Germany. It’s pretty much been hashed down by many many experienced players that nothing short of luck or stupid moves on the allies part will save the Axis from doom. I read some of your alternate moves and they’re interesting but I think the way that the old version stands still is in favor of the allies a majority of the time. I don’t want to argue this though because I never played the old version myself; I’ve just read a lot of stuff about it and everything really does point to a win for the allies in a no-bid situation.

    I think the jury’s out on the revised version. Although a number of players (especially the old school ones) still maintain that the Axis is still slightly in disfavor, I have yet to see this for myself. The Axis is pretty beefy and fun to play 😃

    I’d be happy to discuss any strategies you come up with. I’ve done a lot of thinking and strategizing myself : p Interesting I tend to do a lot of strategizing on the board because it’s easier to see the big map and it doesn’t hurt your eyes…



  • @trihero:

    I’d be happy to discuss any strategies you come up with. I’ve done a lot of thinking and strategizing myself : p Interesting I tend to do a lot of strategizing on the board because it’s easier to see the big map and it doesn’t hurt your eyes…

    I do most of my theorizing while driving (I average 300 miles a day for work).  But it is going to take me a while to get the set-up of the new board, and the different pieces, etc. memorized to the point where I can work out the concepts and ideas and do a rough running of the numbers solely from memory.  But I am going to miss not being able to just fire up a quick program and test those theories a few times to see if they are viable…

    By this time next year I should be able to work things out to the same degree with Revised that I do with Classic. 🙂



  • The new things really did help the game a lot.  I read the above posters link and I agree with most of it, esp. with how they addressed the “Clumping”.  I am not sure what you mean by old strats, because I am not sure what those were for you.  For us it was typicaly all out attack on Germany by the allies, Germany holds out for as long as it can while Japan would creep up.  It basicaly went down to who got Berlin/Moscow first.

    The old strats work, but they have thrown a lot of curves.  Weapons development is a viable option now since you can choose what you get instead of spending a lot of $ and getting super subs.  The Eastern Front… with what they have done to it with the new territories would take longer than I care to go into to explain it.  But as per the old game, the war is won and lost there.  So the strat of “feeding Russia” is still a sound one.

    One part of the game that I have not explored is the option of the US going into the pacific in a big way.  Of course, the pressure off Germany is a huge reason not to do it, and it was hardly ever done in the old game.  But the increased value of the islands make it more attractive.

    The Jap rush through Asia to get to moscow to take pressure off of Germany is still there, but has been tuned down a bit.  The IPC you take from Russia is not as great, and India has more of a hitorical role now as being a “strong point” for the allies.  It always bothered me that the UK fleet in the Indian ocean in the old game was represented by 1 transport.

    I could go on, but it is Christmas so I am going to cut it short.  The old strats work, but you have to find a new way to implement them.



  • Weapons development is a viable option now since you can choose what you get instead of spending a lot of $ and getting super subs.

    Even though it’s six times as easy to get the tech you want, the risk associated with it doesn’t translate well into consistent strategies. If you roll 9 die of tech (45 IPCs) you have an almost 20% chance of NOT achieving the tech. That sounds pretty bad, doesn’t it? Ironically super subs is the only tech that I try for, and only if I’m the US and gunning after Japan. Rockets are pretty good for Germany but I really can’t find space in my economy to throw away 30+ IPCs for an uncertain tech. If you’re a habitual gambler or feel like you’re playing against  superior player so you need to take your chances, then I would say tech. Otherwise, it isn’t going to win you a whole lot of games unless you are already winning.

    One part of the game that I have not explored is the option of the US going into the pacific in a big way.  Of course, the pressure off Germany is a huge reason not to do it, and it was hardly ever done in the old game.  But the increased value of the islands make it more attractive.

    This is pretty fun to do if you have all the Allies cooperating against Japan. You can really make Japan squirm if the US is dumping all cash into a navy while Russia/UK swipe the Asian territories away. If the US smartly maneuvers the navy and researches super subs right before a big battle, likely Japan is going to be staring at an 8 IPC paycheck and squatting on his capital for the rest of the game. But yeah, taking pressure off Germany is a pretty big no-no. You’re leaving 10 IPCs in Africa alone to Germany (couple more in trans-jordan/persia as well) and letting him hammer Russia with full strength, which is much harder to defend against than a Japanese attempt. I admit I’m not an expert though; I haven’t taken that many games to conclusion in a real bonafide KJF strategy. It’s hard to say if the Allies can recover or not once Germany kills Russia; perhaps taking the Japanese mainland gives the Allies too good of a position to retake, but then again maybe Germany takes too many IPCs and can overrun the UK in short order and then the US.


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