• It is a sad day in America.  The Patriot Act’s 16 most important provisions have been voted down by the US Senate.  The terrorsts have been handed their first victory by gutless American politicians.  It can be truly said that the terrorists cannot defeat us on the battlefield.  They must win their battles against us with their left-wing supporters in the Democratic Party and the weak-kneed politicians on the Republican side.  I am ashamed of each and every one of them that are against this important piece of legislation that has kept America safe from the evil of terrorism these past 4 years.  Without these provisions, we are now going to be going back to the Clinton era where information sharing was not allowed and led to 9/11.  God help us now in our time of need.  We are in desparate need of it.  The next attack is coming and those Senators will be to blame.

    Rune Blade


  • The terrorist’s victory came when 99 Senators voted for a set of laws which restricted the rights of American citizens and empowered a government with limited oversight.

    It’s not all Democratic opposition too. Even the House is having difficulty passing anything. I’ve been watching it on CSPAN all day. We’ll probably see a 1 year extension of the laws. Hopefully there will be more Democrats in both Houses by that time.

    Limited government is a good thing. Conservatives are supposed to be the ones for limited government. Democrats are looking more conservative every day.


  • Yanny, even you can see that the terrorists on 9/11 used the freedoms that everyday Americans take for granted to kill 3,000 Americans.  What price will you put on your security next time?  Do 5,000 people have to die?  Do 10,000?  The patriot act is a vital tool to allow goverment agencies to find these terror cells in this country.  The patriot act does not affect honest, every day Americans.  Those who have committed no crimes don’t have any thing to fear from the PA.  I for one don’t fear it.  What I fear is those in this country trying to undermine our war on terror in the guise of “privacy”.  That is utter bullcrap.  All those Democratic senators (as you said 99 voted for it) care about now is trying to hurt Bush.  Why?  Because of pure idiological hate.  That is not a reason to put American lives in danger.  That patriot act must be allowed to stay, otherwise, well, wake up to CSPAN, Yanny when they tell you a nuclear weapon was detonated in New York City.  Then let me know if it was worth having or not.

    Rune Blade.


  • Terrorists do not have the physical ability to kill that many people. They do not have the the means to provide a serious actual threat to Americans in America. It’s all psychological.

    Want to win a victory over the terrorists? Stop caring. On 9/12, send the troops to Afganistan, capture Osama Bin Ladin, and don’t get all worked up about it.

    Those who have committed no crimes had nothing to fear from Joseph Stalin right? The Gestapo didn’t concern those who were good, law abiding German citizens.

    All those Democratic Senators were in shock like 99% of the rest of us. Not only that, but they intentionally sunsetted the bill. It’s time for the bill to sunset. It will be repassed, but there will be judicial and congressional oversight (In the past, a half dozen members of each house were given the intelligence but weren’t allowed to speak about it), and it will indeed sunset again. There are good things in the Patriot Act, and there are also some bad things.

    Terrorism is one big psychological frenzy. It was really scary watching on 9/11, trust me I was scared too. There is a hill in my town where I was able to see the towers burning. But now it’s time to be rational again.

    Guess who that one Senator who voted against the bill was? If I had to retrieve a guess from you, I’d be you would respond to me Ted Kennedy, or John Kerry, or another super-liberal. Russ Feingold, a moderate and bi-partisan, was the only one to oppose the act.

    Once Rome lost it’s democracy, it never returned.

    Rome didn’t get back it’s Democracy once it lost it.


  • Once Rome lost it’s democracy, it never returned.

    Rome didn’t get back it’s Democracy once it lost it.

    And Rome made is greatest strides for the human race during its Imperial period. Long live the empire!


  • What uses did the patriot act have?
    Did it actually fulfill its purpose?  Or did it simply arbitrarily trample the rights of individual Americans?
    My guess is that if it had any use, it would not have been voted down by the same people who voted for it.


  • Well, in light of the OTHER revelations of the day (spying on US Citizens in direct violation of the law by the NSA), and based on things like Library records being “seizable” under Patriot… it is no wonder that the Act was in trouble.

    And to be honest, there is a HELL of a lot in that act that NEEDS to go away.

    For example, my employer can’t hire people and get them on the road doing their job until they have had a Homeland Security backround check.  Why?  Because parts washer solvent is a DOT hazardous material (flash point below 200 degrees and it is poisonous to humans.  Duh!), and apparently the current Administration thinks that terrorists are going to try for a HAZMAT CDL so they can do a truck bomb.

    Funny, Tim McVey did not have a HAZMAT CDL.  I don;t think Mohamed Atta did either.  But hey, we created a whole cotage industry of companies that broker background checks for CDL drivers and our companies pay extra taxes and fees while simultaneously losing revenue with compliance costs and down time.

    And don;t even get me started on detention of “enemy combatants”.  Jose Pedila was a GD DMN AMERICAN CITIZEN!  He was held for more than 3 years in SOLITARY and DENIED ACCESS TO A LAWYER.  Can anyone even READ the Constitution anymore to know just how many violations THAT little fiasco was?

    I’m sorry…  The Bushstapo has proven its abuse of power and contempt for individual liberty on too many occasions for this former Republican now Libertarian.


  • oh dear.
    i actually agree with and semi-applaud an nc post.  weird.


  • @cystic:

    oh dear.
    i actually agree with and semi-applaud an nc post.  weird.

    Hey, I am a political Donnie and Marie… a little bit left, and a little bit right :-P


  • Rune, I’d like you to respond to something.

    How does adding congressional and judicial oversight to Patriot Act I powers, and including sunset clauses to make such powers permanent, going to do harm to national security? Because that is all we are talking about. Safeguards against abuse of power. The bi-party opposition to the Patriot Act II are simply trying to modify the new bill.


  • “Those who would sacrifice freedom for security, deserve neither.” (or something of that effect…)

    • Said by REAL American hero.

    I think it’s worth repeating (first said by Yanny) - that Republicans say they want limited government, but do the complete opposite - because so many people haven’t noticed it yet.  And what does that make them?  You tell me…


  • @Jermofoot:

    “Those who would sacrifice freedom for security, deserve neither.” (or something of that effect…)

    • Said by REAL American hero.

    The quote is Benjamin Franklin, and the original quote (often mis-quoted) is
    “They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security”


  • @ncscswitch:

    The quote is Benjamin Franklin, and the original quote (often mis-quoted) is
    “They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security”

    Yeah, yeah, of course it’s Franklin - they were supposed to look it up if they didn’t know!
    And misquotes do abound - I just happen to like the revised quote better for brevity and punch.


  • I’m a Pennsylvanian living in North Carolina.  Have to stand up for the integrity of Ol Ben’s quotes ya know :-P


  • @Rune:

    It is a sad day in America.  The Patriot Act’s 16 most important provisions have been voted down by the US Senate.  The terrorsts have been handed their first victory by gutless American politicians.  It can be truly said that the terrorists cannot defeat us on the battlefield.  They must win their battles against us with their left-wing supporters in the Democratic Party and the weak-kneed politicians on the Republican side.  I am ashamed of each and every one of them that are against this important piece of legislation that has kept America safe from the evil of terrorism these past 4 years.  Without these provisions, we are now going to be going back to the Clinton era where information sharing was not allowed and led to 9/11.  God help us now in our time of need.  We are in desparate need of it.  The next attack is coming and those Senators will be to blame.

    Rune Blade

    Well, some things haven’t change since I was here last.

    Tell me, I forgot who has control of both House and Senate? Yeah, your right…. I got more freedom and you are going to get an airliner flown into your house. Sweet deal for me.

    Tough luck RB… I guess you’ll have to move to Paraguay.
    So long.


  • @Yanny:

    Terrorists do not have the physical ability to kill that many people. They do not have the the means to provide a serious actual threat to Americans in America. It’s all psychological.

    Want to win a victory over the terrorists? Stop caring. On 9/12, send the troops to Afganistan, capture Osama Bin Ladin, and don’t get all worked up about it.

    Those who have committed no crimes had nothing to fear from Joseph Stalin right? The Gestapo didn’t concern those who were good, law abiding German citizens.

    All those Democratic Senators were in shock like 99% of the rest of us. Not only that, but they intentionally sunsetted the bill. It’s time for the bill to sunset. It will be repassed, but there will be judicial and congressional oversight (In the past, a half dozen members of each house were given the intelligence but weren’t allowed to speak about it), and it will indeed sunset again. There are good things in the Patriot Act, and there are also some bad things.

    Terrorism is one big psychological frenzy. It was really scary watching on 9/11, trust me I was scared too. There is a hill in my town where I was able to see the towers burning. But now it’s time to be rational again.

    Guess who that one Senator who voted against the bill was? If I had to retrieve a guess from you, I’d be you would respond to me Ted Kennedy, or John Kerry, or another super-liberal. Russ Feingold, a moderate and bi-partisan, was the only one to oppose the act.

    Once Rome lost it’s democracy, it never returned.

    Rome didn’t get back it’s Democracy once it lost it.

    The fact you posted this Yanny shows you are wrong.  You compared our government to the Nazis and Stalin’s Russia.  If we were anywhere near that do you think someone would not be knocking on your door right now with a free ticket to the gulag (sp?) or concentration camp?  Do you think Hitler or Stalin would have put up with a “loud mouth” like you?  Evil GWB could of had you killed by posting this if the extreme you are talking about were true, but you weren’t because this is AMERICA.

    You lose credibility when you compare us to states like that.  As much as you want to hype it, the PA is not the Nuremberg laws… sorry.


  • @Zooey72:

    If we were anywhere near that do you think someone would not be knocking on your door right now with a free ticket to the gulag (sp?) or concentration camp?

    Oh, you mean like Jose Pedila?  That American Citizen that was thrown in a “gulag” and not allowed to see anyone for 3 years.

    Or how about all of those individuals, families, and businesses that had their assets seized unilaterally by the government using the dreadfully unconstitutional search and seizure laws of the War on Drugs and the War on Terrorism?

    Or how about Kelo v. New London?  Or Alabaster Alabama?  Or any of a few thousand other places where local, state, and federal governments are taking people’s property to give to major campaign donors to build Walmarts and “Mixed Use Developments”?

    If you deprive a man of his property unjustly and strip him of any power to refuse, you don;t have to throw him in a Gulag to control him.


  • The fact you posted this Yanny shows you are wrong.  You compared our government to the Nazis and Stalin’s Russia.  If we were anywhere near that do you think someone would not be knocking on your door right now with a free ticket to the gulag (sp?) or concentration camp?  Do you think Hitler or Stalin would have put up with a “loud mouth” like you?  Evil GWB could of had you killed by posting this if the extreme you are talking about were true, but you weren’t because this is AMERICA.

    You lose credibility when you compare us to states like that.  As much as you want to hype it, the PA is not the Nuremberg laws… sorry.

    You know something? I couldn’t care less if I lose credibility. What is said needed to be said.

    Hitler was democratically elected. Remember that. The German people freely gave up their power to him. Julius Caesar and Octavian Augustus were democratically given power.

    Right now, this is America. But a long journey begins with a single step. I am in favor of limited, regulated, controlled government. You are in favor of eliminating judicial boundries and control. Who feels more “American?”

    Akaka (D-HI), Nay
    Alexander (R-TN), Yea
    Allard (R-CO), Yea
    Allen (R-VA), Yea
    Baucus (D-MT), Nay
    Bayh (D-IN), Nay
    Bennett (R-UT), Yea
    Biden (D-DE), Nay
    Bingaman (D-NM), Nay
    Bond (R-MO), Yea
    Boxer (D-CA), Nay
    Brownback (R-KS), Yea
    Bunning (R-KY), Yea
    Burns (R-MT), Yea
    Burr (R-NC), Yea
    Byrd (D-WV), Nay
    Cantwell (D-WA), Nay
    Carper (D-DE), Nay
    Chafee (R-RI), Yea
    Chambliss (R-GA), Yea
    Clinton (D-NY), Nay
    Coburn (R-OK), Yea
    Cochran (R-MS), Yea
    Coleman (R-MN), Yea
    Collins (R-ME), Yea
    Conrad (D-ND), Nay
    Cornyn (R-TX), Yea
    Corzine (D-NJ), Nay
    Craig (R-ID), Nay
    Crapo (R-ID), Yea
    Dayton (D-MN), Nay
    DeMint (R-SC), Yea
    DeWine (R-OH), Yea
    Dodd (D-CT), Not Voting
    Dole (R-NC), Yea
    Domenici (R-NM), Yea
    Dorgan (D-ND), Nay
    Durbin (D-IL), Nay
    Ensign (R-NV), Yea
    Enzi (R-WY), Yea
    Feingold (D-WI), Nay
    Feinstein (D-CA), Nay
    Frist (R-TN), Nay
    Graham (R-SC), Yea
    Grassley (R-IA), Yea
    Gregg (R-NH), Yea
    Hagel (R-NE), Nay
    Harkin (D-IA), Nay
    Hatch (R-UT), Yea
    Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
    Inhofe (R-OK), Yea
    Inouye (D-HI), Nay
    Isakson (R-GA), Yea
    Jeffords (I-VT), Nay
    Johnson (D-SD), Yea
    Kennedy (D-MA), Nay
    Kerry (D-MA), Nay
    Kohl (D-WI), Nay
    Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
    Landrieu (D-LA), Nay
    Lautenberg (D-NJ), Nay
    Leahy (D-VT), Nay
    Levin (D-MI), Nay
    Lieberman (D-CT), Nay
    Lincoln (D-AR), Nay
    Lott (R-MS), Yea
    Lugar (R-IN), Yea
    Martinez (R-FL), Yea
    McCain (R-AZ), Yea
    McConnell (R-KY), Yea
    Mikulski (D-MD), Nay
    Murkowski (R-AK), Nay
    Murray (D-WA), Nay
    Nelson (D-FL), Nay
    Nelson (D-NE), Yea
    Obama (D-IL), Nay
    Pryor (D-AR), Nay
    Reed (D-RI), Nay
    Reid (D-NV), Nay
    Roberts (R-KS), Yea
    Rockefeller (D-WV), Nay
    Salazar (D-CO), Nay
    Santorum (R-PA), Yea
    Sarbanes (D-MD), Nay
    Schumer (D-NY), Nay
    Sessions (R-AL), Yea
    Shelby (R-AL), Yea
    Smith (R-OR), Yea
    Snowe (R-ME), Yea
    Specter (R-PA), Yea
    Stabenow (D-MI), Nay
    Stevens (R-AK), Yea
    Sununu (R-NH), Nay
    Talent (R-MO), Yea
    Thomas (R-WY), Yea
    Thune (R-SD), Yea
    Vitter (R-LA), Yea
    Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
    Warner (R-VA), Yea
    Wyden (D-OR), Nay

    Craig (R-ID), Nay
    Dodd (D-CT), Not Voting
    Frist (R-TN), Nay
    Hagel (R-NE), Nay
    Johnson (D-SD), Yea
    Murkowski (R-AK), Nay
    Nelson (D-NE), Yea
    Sununu (R-NH), Nay


  • By the way, I’d like to point out…

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10454316/


  • that’s funny stuff - if you don’t live in the US.  For a democracy and a supposedly great civilization, you people sure are paranoid between the NRA, the army, CIA, NSA, Secret Service, White House, Homeland Security, as well as those a$$ inspectors in the airports.  It’s a wonder anything gets done there.

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