Top 10 World War II action films of all time

@CWO:

As anecdotal evidence supporting Wolfshanze’s theory, I saw it when I was well past the age of 15 and I thought it was pretty awful.  And I’m not just talking about the cringe-worthy part about the wrong tanks standing in for iconic WWII models.  It’s one of the rare military movies that I own on DVD – and I own a lot – that I’ve never watched more than once.

Thank you… I am firm in the belief that anyone over the age of 15 who views Battle of the Bulge, and has at least some basic grasp of WWII’s history and equipment better also have an airsick bag handy when they watch the movie… i felt very queasy and seriously ill several times during the viewing of that film as an adult!

I will get a little personal here.  My father was a ball (belly) turret gunner on a B-17.  His plane was shot down over Yugoslavia, and he was rescued/saved by Yugoslav partisans. Received the Bronze Star.  He HATED ‘Memphis Belle’.  He said about the ‘colorful metaphors’ so often used, “We never talked liked that!  We never used language that harsh”  His words not mine. So I’m a little biased and would never include that movie in a top 10.  Just my opinion.  the movie has merits, as many of you testify.  I’m just biased.

Surprised that not one person mentioned (or I missed it going too fast thru the posts) “Hell is for Heroes!”  What a great movie.  And the cast!!! Steve McQueen, James Coburn, a very young Bob Newhart, Fes Parker, and many other great character actors.  If you haven’t seen it give it a look.

Another great one, though not a real battle movie, “Hell in the Pacific” with Lee Marvin. sorta like ‘Castaway’ meets ‘Hatfields vs McCoys’.

I too vote for ‘Battleground’

Does ‘Band of Brothers’ count?  I guess a series isn’t a single movie.  But would be #1 for me.

‘Iron Cross’ with James Coburn is pretty good.  Though the ending is blahhhhh.  German soldiers trapped behind Russian lines in the waning year of the war.

Not a huge fan of ‘Battle of the Bulge’.  Just not well done in my opinion.  I like it, but feel there are many better movies out there.  I also downgrade ‘The Longest day’.  Too disjointed by jumping around too much.  Book was great.  I own it.  Just don’t like the movie any more.  It doesn’t stand the test of time.  Saw it once shortly after ‘Saving Private Ryan’ came out, after that I couldn’t understand why I’d like ‘longest day’ so much before. Maybe ‘Band of brothers’ ruined ‘Battle of the bulge’ for me in the same way.

Is the ‘Stalingrad’ listed by many the one that came out 2 years ago?  About the girl with 8 fathers?  I hope not because I thought that was a bad movie.

Back to my dad for a second.  He was a mountain hillbilly/redneck to the core.  He epitomized ‘Merica’ to the extreme, hated commies and such.  But till the day he died if you said one thing bad about Tito he’d smack the crap out of you…. :-D

Agreeing with Virginia General, Hell in the Pacific and Band of Brothers would be on my list, but I have not proposed them as I don’t think they meet YG’s criteria here.

I struggle to get worked up about BotB vs Memphis Belle (or whatever else) as the criteria limit the selection to films I find it hard to care very much about. A Bridge too Far and The Battle of Britain are worthy films and Saving Private Ryan has its strengths, but after that I am struggling.

However one comment would be that comparing Letters from Iwo Jima with Battle of the Pacific leads me to think the latter is the better film. Has anyone else seen it?

Y’all are still missing the point. If we are going to argue about these films primarily on the basis of how true-to-life, realistic or objectively “well done” they are… that is fine, but the topic would need to be defined that way. It isn’t. We are talking about Action first and foremost, so that should be given the greatest consideration of any factor. The scope and consistency of the action in Battle of the Bulge is hardly rivaled among WWII films. Nobody seems to be able to contend that or discuss these films primarily in regards to action. I have given some of my qualifications for what Action means to me… maybe others need to do the same.

@LHoffman:

Y’all are still missing the point.  We are talking about Action first and foremost.

I think you’ve lost all objectivity here… you’ve become so focused on one word, you’ve forgotten what else is the whole point of the thread… “action, Action, ACTION” is all you see, its all you talk about, it’s all you focus on… but you have COMPLETELY FORGOTTEN, this is a TOP 10 list… Top 10 generally refers to a GOOD MOVIE… sorry, but as many have pointed out quite correctly, Battle of the Bulge just isn’t good, and when people talk about other movies, they are trying to meet ALL the criteria, not just one.  Realism, believability, acting, pacing, storyline all go into making a top-10 list.

Bad movies are just that… bad movies, no matter how much action is in them.  Once again, I didn’t invent this thread, but pretty sure the ONLY criteria isn’t how much action is in the film… I think quality of the film has a little something to do with it to… all you have spoken about post after post is “does it have action?  how much action does it have?  Is there enough action to call it an action film?  What if there’s not enough action in our action film, I think there’s not enough action to call it action, so its not actiony-enough for me, it needs more action.”
You’ve really lost all focus on the fact it’s STILL a TOP-10 list… Top-10 infers more than just crossing an action threshold, as arbitrary as that is.  When people say they like or don’t like a movie for this or that reason, they’re referring to the Top-10 threshold… not the % of action that is in the film.

Maybe you should make a new thread and call it “LHoffman’s WWII Actionyist Action Films of all Actiony Time”

@Wolfshanze:

I think you’ve lost all objectivity here…

I disagree entirely. I am at least trying to evaluate these films in some sort of scientific method. There are multiple standards involved and some deserve more weight than others, given how this list is specifically defined, yet given vague parameters for measurement. You are the one who is completely writing off Battle of the Bulge in a decidedly un-objective manner, predominantly because you just think it is a poor film. You have emphasized all the negative elements but not discussed any of the positives about it or how it fits in under the Action category. That is where the lack of objectivity is here.

@Wolfshanze:

you’ve become so focused on one word, you’ve forgotten what else is the whole point of the thread… “action, Action, ACTION” is all you see, its all you talk about, it’s all you focus on… but you have COMPLETELY FORGOTTEN, this is a TOP 10 list…

Quite the contrary, you seem to be the one focused on it and it is clearly setting you precariously close to a fit of rage. I have tried to emphasize the action aspect, because that is what the topic is: Top 10 World War II Action Films of All Time. It is not the Top 10 most critically acclaimed WWII action films of all time. Or the Top 10 most realistic WWII action films of all time. Etc…

@Wolfshanze:

Top 10 generally refers to a GOOD MOVIE… sorry, but as many have pointed out quite correctly, Battle of the Bulge just isn’t good, and when people talk about other movies, they are trying to meet ALL the criteria, not just one.  Realism, believability, acting, pacing, storyline all go into making a top-10 list.

Again, I refer you to a couple other movies listed in the current Top 10 here:  
Battle of Britain - great movie for many reasons, but poor on pacing, storyline and contains historical generalization. Even fewer people like it than like Battle of the Bulge according to Rotten Tomatoes (63% vs 67%). You have conveniently not addressed this example.
A Bridge Too Far - very well made film overall with lots of action but the pacing and length bring it down. Rotten Tomatoes gives 73% approval, which is only 6 points above BotB.
Stalingrad (2014) - Good heavens, only 48% rating from Rotten Tomatoes. That is abysmal. I haven’t seen this movie, but from what I have read and heard it is just not very good. Supposedly has a lot of action though.
Tora Tora Tora - very authentic and respectful production with a good amount of action, but only a 57% rating on Rotten Tomatoes. Again, pacing and lack of storylines probably hinder it.

… these are just the ones I could analyze in 5 minutes. They all have issues, some are even rated less than Battle of the Bulge. Since you seem to hold these ratings in some regard, wouldn’t it be the objective thing to compare them all on that scale?

@Wolfshanze:

Bad movies are just that… bad movies, no matter how much action is in them.  Once again, I didn’t invent this thread, but pretty sure the ONLY criteria isn’t how much action is in the film… I think quality of the film has a little something to do with it to… all you have spoken about post after post is “does it have action?  how much action does it have?  Is there enough action to call it an action film?  What if there’s not enough action in our action film, I think there’s not enough action to call it action, so its not actiony-enough for me, it needs more action.”
You’ve really lost all focus on the fact it’s STILL a TOP-10 list… Top-10 infers more than just crossing an action threshold, as arbitrary as that is.  When people say they like or don’t like a movie for this or that reason, they’re referring to the Top-10 threshold… not the % of action that is in the film.

Well bad movies are bad movies regardless, but when you are including them in a “Top (whatever) List”, the implication (not the inference) is not that they are critically well received or even that great. Their inclusion is predicated on whatever limiting factors are imposed when defining the list. I refer you back to this list (http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-best-world-war-ii-movies-of-all-time?var=4&utm_expid=16418821-179.vk2gM_coRrOMcxn9T2riGQ.3&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F) which was posted earlier. How is The Dirty Dozen ranked number 5? Short answer: they had people vote on their favorites and the only criteria was that it had to take place during WWII. That is damn broad and essentially meaningless. Yet how Dirty Dozen, a completely fictional and inane story, can be above Band of Brothers, Das Boat, Bridge Too Far, etc… is beyond me.

Want another example? Here is something a little more focused than just a poll: 25 Best Space Movies of All Time (LA Weekly) http://www.laweekly.com/slideshow/the-25-best-space-movies-of-all-time-5199443/23
According to your assumptions, we should probably be looking to see the really (objectively) good movies towards the top. Suffice to say, even I was shocked at this one.

First off… Galaxy Quest (#7) is ahead of Apollo 13 (#19) - Does that tell you that Galaxy Quest is actually somehow better than Apollo 13? Objectively so?

Secondly, the sci-fi/space film with the general consensus as being the greatest and grandest of them all is 2001: A Space Odyssey. You would expect it to be number one, maybe two… No, it is #4. Ahead of it is Star Wars: ESB, The Right Stuff and at #1 Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan.

Those are all good films but who is judging them and how? 2001 blows everything away with originality and innovation and is darn near objectively the spacey-est space movie ever; containing just about every element of science fiction iconography in the modern lexicon… partly because it made the modern lexicon.

Again… my point being that your inference/assumption of Top 10 = Good is not accurate. First we need to define what “good” even means, but before that we need to pay attention to what the list is even about. If it is about Space movies, it should have a lot to do with space in it. Star Trek IV: The Voyage home may technically be a space movie, but 95% of the film takes place on Earth in San Francisco. Should it be worthy of Top 10 status then? Is that what most people think of when they hear “space movie”. Same thing with our WWII Action list… Letters from Iwo Jima is a great film, but do people think of Letters when someone says, give me a WWII action film? My contention is maybe, but not likely.

@Wolfshanze:

Maybe you should make a new thread and call it “LHoffman’s WWII Actionyist Action Films of all Actiony Time”

I’d rather not. YG is better at starting threads and getting people to talk about stuff than I am.

@LHoffman:

… Galaxy Quest (#7) is ahead of Apollo 13 (#19) - Does that tell you that Galaxy Quest is actually somehow better than Apollo 13?

Galaxy Quest is the best film ever made. Perhaps if we changed the heading and criteria for this thread I could get it in somehow?

@Private:

@LHoffman:

… Galaxy Quest (#7) is ahead of Apollo 13 (#19) - Does that tell you that Galaxy Quest is actually somehow better than Apollo 13?

Galaxy Quest is the best film ever made. Perhaps if we changed the heading and criteria for this thread I could get it in somehow?

Hahaha… Definitely could fit it in somehow. I think I need to watch GQ again now that I have aged a bit. Maybe I will find it funnier. Isn’t that what your avatar pic is from PP?

Galaxy Quest could be considered a better space movie than Apollo 13… if you were defining comedic space movies. Otherwise, Galaxy Quest is a pure joke of a film.

@LHoffman:

Quite the contrary, you seem to be the one focused on it and it is clearly setting you precariously close to a fit of rage.

“Fit of Rage”?  :roll:

I don’t think Mr Fantastic could reach as far as you are with that statement. At this point, you’ve pretty much gone to the Chewbacca Defense on your rant… and no… I will not look at the monkey.

@LHoffman:

Isn’t that what your avatar pic is from PP?

That’s right Hoff. Perhaps not QUITE the best film ever made, but I did watch it again a few months back and find it very entertaining.

I did try to distract from the heightened tone with my GQ joke. Sorry I failed. There’s no point in falling out Wolf & Hoff. From my PC screen you both seem like good guys.

Hoff is just representing YG’s criteria in YG’s thread, as he understands it - correctly I think. My last serious post was not an attempt to challenge YG’s intentions, just my excuses for not being more help. YG can define HIS thread as he likes.

But I did make one contribution that has got lost in the crossfire:

@Private:

However one comment would be that comparing Letters from Iwo Jima with Battle of the Pacific leads me to think the latter is the better film. Has anyone else seen it?

@Private:

@LHoffman:

Isn’t that what your avatar pic is from PP?

That’s right Hoff. Perhaps not QUITE the best film ever made, but I did watch it again a few months back and find it very entertaining.

I will say this for Galaxy Quest… if you are a fan of the original Star Trek series from the 60s (and we’re only talking the original series… if you’re unfamiliar with it, or only like the newer franchises, this does not apply to you)… then you will love the heck out of Galaxy Quest. 99% of the references in Galaxy quest either are subtlety (or not so subtlety) speaking of things common to the original ST series and/or the lore and the cast rivalries with one another after the series ended. Galaxy Quest is an homage to the original Star Trek series, but if that’s not your cup of tea, then Galaxy Quest will fall flat for you.

@Wolfshanze:

_“Fit of Rage”?_� :roll:

I don’t think Mr Fantastic could reach as far as you are with that statement. At this point, you’ve pretty much gone to the Chewbacca Defense on your rant… and no… I will not look at the monkey.

It was deliberate hyperbole. Though you did seem agitated, perhaps you need another treatment?

@Wolfshanze:

I don’t think Mr Fantastic could reach as far as you are with that statement. At this point, you’ve pretty much gone to the Chewbacca Defense on your rant…

Hey man, if you can’t read and follow along with my spelling it out for you, that is your own problem to deal with.

@Wolfshanze:

and no… I will not look at the monkey.

Not sure what monkey that was but here, let’s look at this one. There are similar features between the two of you:

And now with the personal insults… congratulations on revealing your true self.  How petty.

@Wolfshanze:

And now with the personal insults… congratulations on revealing your true self.  How petty.

It was less of an insult and more of a commentary; you have to read into it a bit. You continue to avoid actually talking about the issue/evidence at hand and only respond with emotionally charged commentary.

Besides, you were the one who brought up monkeys. Even though this is an orangutan.

And my true self is very apparent on these boards. You can look at my post history and others here will vouch for me as being a fair and honest member who is not prone to throw out personal insults. It just isn’t worth my time. That said, I do welcome you to the boards because very evidently new blood revitalizes stagnant discussions.

@Virginia:

I will get a little personal here.  My father was a ball (belly) turret gunner on a B-17.  His plane was shot down over Yugoslavia, and he was rescued/saved by Yugoslav partisans. Received the Bronze Star.  He HATED ‘Memphis Belle’.  He said about the ‘colorful metaphors’ so often used, "We never talked liked that!  We never used language that harsh"  His words not mine. So I’m a little biased and would never include that movie in a top 10.  Just my opinion.  the movie has merits, as many of you testify.  I’m just biased.

Out of curiosity, did your dad ever see the colour documentary Memphis Belle (made around 1944, and which I’ve seen), which is probably very different from more recent feature film of the same name (which I haven’t seen)?  He might have liked it.  That one doesn’t include any foul language.  In fact, one of the things I found the most striking about dialogue in the film was the (admittedly staged for the soundtrack) intercom communication between the members of the bomber crew as they battle enemy fighters over Germany.  The crew members show excellent signals discipline: they keep their voices level (no shouting) and with one exception they strictly limit their statements to businesslike tactical information: things like, “Fighters, ten o’clock high” or “B-17 going down, two o’clock low.”  The single exception is the one that proves the rule: one crewmember makes an irrelevant comment or an emotional remark about something (I forget the details), and the pilot’s voice is immediately heard on the intercom circuit telling him to cut out the chatter.

I like Letters from Iwo Jima. Action is present and Japaneese perspective is interesting.

@CWO:

@Virginia:

I will get a little personal here.�  My father was a ball (belly) turret gunner on a B-17.�  His plane was shot down over Yugoslavia, and he was rescued/saved by Yugoslav partisans. Received the Bronze Star.�  He HATED ‘Memphis Belle’.�  He said about the ‘colorful metaphors’ so often used, "We never talked liked that!�  We never used language that harsh"�  His words not mine. So I’m a little biased and would never include that movie in a top 10.�  Just my opinion.�  the movie has merits, as many of you testify.�  I’m just biased.

Out of curiosity, did your dad ever see the colour documentary Memphis Belle (made around 1944, and which I’ve seen), which is probably very different from more recent feature film of the same name (which I haven’t seen)?  He might have liked it.  That one doesn’t include any foul language.  In fact, one of the things I found the most striking about dialogue in the film was the (admittedly staged for the soundtrack) intercom communication between the members of the bomber crew as they battle enemy fighters over Germany.  The crew members show excellent signals discipline: they keep their voices level (no shouting) and with one exception they strictly limit their statements to businesslike tactical information: things like, “Fighters, ten o’clock high” or “B-17 going down, two o’clock low.”  The single exception is the one that proves the rule: one crewmember makes an irrelevant comment or an emotional remark about something (I forget the details), and the pilot’s voice is immediately heard on the intercom circuit telling him to cut out the chatter.

I have no idea if he ever saw that.