Germany: Dark sky strategy



  • Hi,

    I heard YG in his last YouTube video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rApYW9q7B1I ) talk about a German “Dark Sky” strategy with buying lots of bombers. Can anyone of you explain this strategy and tell me why (or why not) to do it?


  • 2019 2018

    A very important aspect of this game is the concept of “threat”.

    Often times a threat has a bigger effect than actually making the threat true and using units. A good example for this are fighters that can scramble.
    The first three fighters in London for example, are worth double, cause you CAN scramble with them, which means Germany needs to account for them in two ways: In the seazone to secure the landing and again on the land battle. That’s basically a defensive threat.

    Now, bombers are threatening in an offensive way. If you have lots (and I mean high double digits. I’ve had games against Germany players with more than 30 or even 40 bombers) of them stationed in Rome or Berlin, you can threaten a possible US Fleet at Gibraltar, a possible sealion at London, Moscow, Egypt, middle east, a fleet in the med…. everything.

    What happens, is this: USA can’t afford to build transports, since they need to defend against an attack against their fleet. Thus, they will build carriers+fighters every round, without actually moving to Gibraltar.
    Egypt can’t build a fleet for the same reasons. Egypt can’t move the whole ground army to persia / Caucasus either, cause otherwise germany takes egypt with 1 transport and 30 bombers. Also, UK needs to fear for london all the time, since germany can take london too, with 1 transport + lots of bombers. If moscow still stands (unlikely), the russian army is trapped within, so the german army can march on caucasus and the middle east and so on.

    It is not only a very strong strategy, it is possibly the best in the moment.
    I’ve yet struggled to find a viable counter to it, if the Allies didn’t find themselves in a good situation early on (maybe lucky 1st rounds or similar). Usually, going for lots of subs (for convoy) and fighters/bombers yourself seems to work decently enough. KJF (with 100% us attention to japan in the first 4 rounds) might work as well, since starting at round 5, usa can use everything for germany with lots of IPC gained in the pacific.

    What I did as Allies, in some of these games, is not even bothering building an Atlantic fleet with USA (Since that takes A LOT of time!), but rather reinforce the middle east via pacific. Remember, you do not need to win as Allies. All you need to do, is not lose.


  • 2019 2018 2017

    I’m not an expert on this topic, but you may want to look at the 20+ pages that have been written about it here: http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35390.0


  • 2018 2017

    This strategy is good because it is fun.  Whether you go 100% bombers or more like 60%, you get lots of flexibility and choices.

    You can attack every Allied factory in Asia and Europe at once.
    You can fly halfway across the world, bombing a target on your way past
    You can fly halfway across the world with a big stack, adding punch to your Moscow attack
    They can break up, supporting 6-10 different small attacks instead.
    You can destroy any fleet
    You can fly from Romania to China and join Japan
    You can have Italy and Japan make more strategic bombers too, so you have a Dark Skies x3

    Probably the best reason?

    You don’t have to make a bunch of complex plans or choices, just buy bombers and figure out what is the most available to bomb next turn

    The drawbacks should be obvious.    The bomber stack isn’t always in the same place or at the same time, and its not tactically defensive.  You have almost no cannon fodder troops, so a series of ever more risky air attacks can cause attrition…attacking piecemeal can also lead to serious attrition, losing a bomber each round is enough to make the stack less than formidable.    You don’t have or need any sea power…you just have to maintain certain landing zones to make sure your bombers can land…

    You cant really screen anything or stack anything…its a purely offensive general strategy.  Its easy enough to buy 10+ infantry for a single turn and turtle up if you see that you’ve overcommitted to bombers…


  • Customizer

    Also, there are some strategies where Germany sends a few bombers to help Japan by clearing blockers. If you buy a bunch of bombers with Germany, you will have enough to send a few to Japan and still have plenty to do stuff in Europe.



  • @Herr:

    I’m not an expert on this topic, but you may want to look at the 20+ pages that have been written about it here: http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35390.0

    Thanks! This is helpfull.

    Next game i’ll try to do a SBR on London G1 and buy a few bombers after G1.



  • Just be very very cognizant that a stack of bombers not strategically placed to be out of reach of the enemy could lead to disastrous results.

    Getting carried away with all the offensiveness of the bombers and not strategically thinking about who can reach them where you land them is a common pitfall of this strategy.


  • Customizer

    Yeah, I made that mistake myself one game. I was having all this fun with this stack of bombers, I think 9 or 10 at the time, and I left them on the French Coast within range of British Fighters. He came at me with just 3 fighters and wiped out all but 1 of my precious bombers.
    He just kept getting hits while I kept rolling everything but a 1. One or two combat rounds I didn’t even get a single hit. Of course, it was well worth it for the UK to lose 3 fighters while taking out 9 bombers.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016

    @knp7765:

    Yeah, I made that mistake myself one game. I was having all this fun with this stack of bombers, I think 9 or 10 at the time, and I left them on the French Coast within range of British Fighters. He came at me with just 3 fighters and wiped out all but 1 of my precious bombers.
    He just kept getting hits while I kept rolling everything but a 1. One or two combat rounds I didn’t even get a single hit. Of course, it was well worth it for the UK to lose 3 fighters while taking out 9 bombers.

    That is the downfall with DS, you allways have to protect them and look out where you land your stack.



  • I just find the whole strategy to be offensive…  😉

    Just because something ‘works’ doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do. Finding a break in this game and exploiting it over and over again to beat people seems uninspired. For the few people who pioneered it, it’s different. Have fun, keep tweaking it, you earned it. It works, so hats off to you. I experienced some of the early losses to it.

    When I was 15 I could see myself employing this strategy, maybe. It depends why you’re playing the game, I guess. To math and dice others into submission - yup, one of the best strategies going. If you’re a WWII enthusiast, not quite so much.

    I recognize this post won’t be popular with a bunch of people, but we just have different motivations as to why we play this game.



  • The greatest thing about bombers is their range. One game I had almost ten bombers in western Germany, was right next to Moscow gathering all my NOs, wassail threatening London with transports, and forcing the US to keep building heavy on sea units. Next turn I toke Moscow and London and with a big bomber purchase, made it a suicide mission for the US to liberate UK. He did and then I countered sacking UK’s IPCs again. Allies toke Japan that turn as well 😕 So what turned into a week long game ended with me building an IC in captured Manchuria(yes I got that far!) And taking Japan with a transport or 2 and my now 20+ bombers.


  • 2015

    I think the Balanced Mod solves a lot of the problems posed by this strategy, in that it’s less optimal for the Axis to simply bypass Russia and starve them out.



  • @Shin:

    I think the Balanced Mod solves a lot of the problems posed by this strategy, in that it’s less optimal for the Axis to simply bypass Russia and starve them out.

    I’ve been reading these boards for years, but I’ve missed this. What is the balanced mod, and where can I find out more about it?


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016

    Hi Just this guy, you can follow this link:

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=36715.0

    There is a thread in the house rule Forum.


  • 2019 2018

    But the thread you linked, aequitas, only contains a fraction of the changes from the mod.
    I would love to see all features listed somewhere, too.


  • 2015

    Everything you need, assuming you already have TripleA, can be found in the game notes here.

    G40 Balance Mod (1).tsvg



  • @Shin:

    Everything you need, assuming you already have TripleA, can be found in the game notes here.

    I’m afraid Triple A is not an option for me until there’s a mobile version. Haven’t had a desk/laptop computer in quite some time. Can someone at least summarize the major changes (and reasons for them)?


  • 2015

    Global 1940 Second Edition - Balance Mod (with “Vichy France” Rule Set)

    Original Game Credits: Bung, Veqryn

    Balance Mod Credits: Adam514, aznz, Deathbringer1974, dust, dss85, Gencre, regularkid


    REVISIONS


    Revised Air Raid Rules: Fighters attack and defend at 2. Strategic and tactical bombers attack at 1.

    Revised Capital Capture Rules: The capture of a player’s capital results in the plunder of that player’s PUs only the first time the capital is taken. Subsequent recapture of the same capital results in the player’s PUs being destroyed.

    New Unit - Marines: Cost 5; Attack at 1 (2 during amphibious assaults; no bonus from artillery); Defend at 2; Can be loaded onto cruisers and battleships (1 to a ship).

    Additional National Objectives

    Russia
    • 3 PUs if Russia is at war with European Axis, and there are no non-Russian Allied units in any originally Russian territory.
    • 3 PUs for each originally German, Italian, or Pro-Axis neutral territory that Russia controls in mainland Europe. (This modifies Russia’s “Spread of Communism” objective).
    • 2 PUs for each of the following Lend-Lease lanes that is “open” (i.e., the specified Sea Zone has no enemy warships and the specified territory is Allied controlled) when Russia is at war with European Axis: (1) sz 125, Archangel ; (2) sz 80, Persia; (3) sz 5, Amur (This modifies Russia’s “Lend Lease” objective).
    • An additional 2 PUs per each “open” Lend-Lease lane, when Russia is at war with European Axis, if Japan has also declared war on Russia.

    Note: When not at war with Japan, Russia may not move its units into any non-Russian Allied territory in Asia, other than Syria, Trans-Jordan, Iraq, Persia, NorthWest Persia, and East Persia.
    Japan
    • 5 PUs if Axis controls Dutch New Guinea, New Guinea, New Britain and Solomon Islands. (This modifies Japan’s “Strategic Perimeter” objective).
    • 5 PUs if Axis controls Midway, Wake Island, Guam.
    USA
    • 5 PUs if USA is at war and Allies control Midway, Wake Island, Guam.
    • 5 PUs if USA is at war and Allies control Marshall Islands, Caroline Islands, Paulau Island, Marianas.
    • 5 PUs if Allies control at least 2 of: Normandy Bordeaux, Holland Belgium, Southern France, and USA has at least one land unit in any of these territories.
    • 5 PUs if Allies control Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia, and USA has at least one land unit in any of these territories.
    China
    • 3 PUs if Allies control Yunnan, Szechwan, Burma, and India. (This modifies China’s “Burma Road” objective).
    • At the start of China’s turn, a Chinese infantry is spawned in each non-coastal Chinese territory under Axis control that is not garrisoned by at least one Axis land unit (i.e., infantry, marine, mech infantry, artillery, or armor). These “guerrillas” engage in combat wherever they are spawned and may not be moved until China’s next turn.
    UK
    • 3 PUs if UK Europe controls all its original territories. (This modifies UK’s “Original Territories” objective).
    • 3 PUs if Allies control at least 2 of: Sicily, Sardinia, Greece, Southern Italy, and Allies have at least one land unit in any of these territories.
    • 3 PUs if there are no enemy submarines in the Atlantic, excluding szs 112 and 125-127.
    • 3 PUs if Malta, Crete, and Cyprus are Allied or Pro-Allied controlled.
    • 3 PUs for UK Pacific when at war with the Japanese if: (1) British control West India and either Egypt or South Africa; and (2) there are no enemy submarines in the western half of the Indian Ocean (sz71,…,sz81).
    Italy
    • 3 PUs if Malta, Cyprus, and Crete are Axis controlled.
    ANZAC
    • 3 PUs if ANZAC is at war with the Japanese and Dutch New Guinea, New Guinea, New Britain and Solomon Islands are controlled by the Allies (other than the Dutch). (This modifies ANZAC’s “Strategic Islands” objective).
    • 3 PUs if ANZAC is at war with the Japanese and Gilbert Islands, Fiji, and Samoa are Allied controlled.

    VICHY FRANCE RULE SET

    The following rule-set simulates the circumstances and strategic consequences of the Franco-German Armistice, and is intended for play with the G40 Balance Mod.

    Game Conditions for Franco-German Armistice

    At the beginning of France’s turn, if the following conditions are met, the Franco-German Armistice will occur:

    1. Axis has control of both France and Normandy Bordeaux;
    2. Axis has never controlled Southern France; and
    3. There are no non-French, Allied units in Southern France.

    Game Consequences of Franco-German Armistice

    French Territorial Control: At the beginning of France’s first turn in which Armistice conditions are met, all originally French territories not already under Axis control immediately change ownership to Pro-Axis Neutrals, except: (1) French Equatorial Africa; (2) New Hebrides; (2) any French territories containing non-French allied units.

    With the exception of Southern France (see discussion of “Zone Libere” below), Vichy French territory works the same way as other Pro-Axis Neutral territory–i.e., an Axis player may capture Vichy French territory and commandeer its forces by moving a land unit into the territory during the non-combat phase of his turn.

    Fly-over restrictions applicable to other Neutral territories do not apply to Vichy French territory.

    Fleet at Toulon: In addition to the change in French territorial control, the Armistice changes control of the the French fleet in sz 93, from French to Pro-Axis neutral. The Vichy French fleet maintains a strictly defensive posture. It may not be moved. It may not be captured by the Axis. The fleet is immediately destroyed if any power, other than the Free French, occupies Southern France

    “Zone Libre”: Any Axis occupation of Southern France following the Armistice results in the scuttling of the Vichy French Fleet at Toulon and the disbandment of all remaining Vichy French forces. These forces are removed at the end of the Axis player’s turn in which the occupation of Southern France takes place. Any formerly Vichy French forces that were previously commandeered by the Axis are unaffected by this change.

    Armistice’s Effect on National Objectives: Following the armistice, Southern France is considered Axis-controlled for purposes of Italy’s “Roman Empire” objective. Otherwise, the Vichy France arrangement has no impact on National Objectives. Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco must still be directly occupied by Germany or Italy to achieve Italy’s “North Africa” objective. Japanese occupation of French Indo China still negates Japan’s “Trade With America” objective.

    Liberation of France: The Allied liberation of France effectively terminates the Armistice. Any territory and forces still under Vichy French control (including any surviving fleet in sz 93) revert back to Free French control. The Vichy French forces in the Southern France and sz 93 will also revert back if Southern France is liberated by the Free French.




  • The balanced mod is quite interesting and I am excited to have my first game.  My main question is about the Vichy France rules.  It seem like there is a 70% likelihood that the Axis can pull it off (getting Normandy with the Germans and strafing off any UK planes that land in Southern France).  It is tough to dial in the right amount of units to use in the Southern France attack because you need to have some ground unit cannon fodder, but not too much so you don’t accidentally capture the territory.  If they get it to work, The Axis is about 50 PUs better shape than if one of the fights fails.  That seems like an enormous swing that will reshape the rest of the gameplay.  Am I right in this assessment?

    Anyway, I am excited to play my first league game using the balanced mod and am willing to start another one with anyone interested.


  • 2019 2018

    Capturing Normandy and France is not thaaat hard actually. It can fail, yes, there’s a slight chance. But then, there’s still Italy, that can grab France.

    To prevent Vichy, UK can land a fighter in Southern France, but since Sealion is always a big risk, especially with no bid units at the beginning, that “lost” fighter for UK really hurts.



  • When I play the balanced mod I ignore Vichy France, as I am quite convinced that Axis can win easily without the crutch and otherwise see no advantage for attacking Normandy in G1.


  • 2015

    A lot of people misunderstand how Southern France factors into Vichy.  You don’t have to kill the french units there.  The only situation where you would need to attack the territory without taking it would be if the UK landed a plane there.

    And honestly, at that point it probably makes sense to just take the tt and give up Vichy entirely.



  • What is the advantage as axis to doing vichy france?


  • 2019 2018

    You do not need to kill the french destroyer+cruiser. These usually score 1 hit on average if you attack them. So, at the very least, you save 6 IPC for a submarine.

    You do not need to kill the french Infantry+Artillery in South africa, saving you 1 Infantry in the process, worth 3 IPC. Additionally, you can send the Italian troops (or German) to the Eastern Front 2 rounds faster.

    You do not need to kill the french infantry in North africa. Each of these has a chance to kill a unit too, and additionally it forces you to send a small army that way, if you want these territories (you can’t just walk there with one infantry). At the very least you save 1 infantry here too, which would otherwise die, for another 3 IPC.

    You get 3 (!!!) Inf for free in north africa, which is worth 9 IPC. And we are talking about 9 IPC spended in north Africa, where you normally need to use transports. Which is not always possible when UK has a strong fleet / airforce at Egypt.

    You get another free inf in Syria, worth again 3 IPC + 1/3 chance of losing another infantry.

    You get free blockers at South france, if the Allies are at Gibraltar with their fleet and threatening Rome.

    So, at the very least you save around 25 IPC, get free blockers for Rome and you can speed up the attack on Russia or Egypt. For the cost of 3 IPC per round.



  • I would say that you would very quickly back those 3 IPC per round from French North Africa, plus you now have more options on using your Italian troops on I1 if you aren’t trying to destroy the French Navy. Furthermore the UK needs to lose a fighter in Southern France if they want any chance of blocking Vichy France.  That fighter should die if the Italians can strafe the sea zone with a ground unit and planes.    I put the benefit to be around 40, but I need to play a full game to find out.  Guess we are going to see, huh MrRoboto.


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