Why are we at war?



  • OK so recently i was attacked by people i don’t know, nor care to!!! but really… i was told i was schooled… and all kinds of things…

    first off, for what reason… in hind site, do we have to be in a wartime situation… besides our own greed for oil? I know before you tell me, i am a left wing wack job… so if you could leave that out and move on to the facts please do…

    The three basic reasons for going to war were? Does anyone know? well i don’t but i assumed it was
    1. al qaeda had something to do with Iraq???
    2. Saddam gassed the curds and is a bad man… but we went to war awhile back(the first gulf war) and that wasn’t the issue then… hell when he did it, it wasn’t issue then either cause he was on our side!!! but hey, we killed the Indians … let bygones be bygones…
    3. Where are the weapons of mass destruction… no really, i have been told i was schewld… from a past thread… where are they ??? I was apparently schewld… could you tell the world where you hid them? or what you actually meant to say…

    Side note please give me a link for a reason, i would like to see some fact behind your reasoning… since i am the wack job with out any education, from your humble opinion… please supply information in abundance…
    for now i can only tell you to go check out front line on PBS for your news… or hell just read transcripts … hell listen to BBC , PBS, or both…

    just stay away from 24 hour networks with news… they make it up when there isn’t any… and please don’t make me prove that last statement… cause Jon stewart has a few moment’s i would love to plug…



  • with the name you have do you really need to ask why we are at war?

    "Men, this stuff we hear about America wanting to stay out of the war, not wanting to fight, is a lot of bullshit. Americans love to fight - traditionally. All real Americans love the sting and clash of battle.

    i hope you do realize who said those words.



  • Hey Major
    Don’t try to derail this with crap. 
    He asked a legitimate question - all you are doing is providing a non-sequitor that is (not-cleverly) designed to discredit the poster in a feeble attempt to de-legitimize the question.

    If you have an honest non-insulty answer, then post it.  Otherwise find a hole to sit in.

    (oh yeah - this is CC the poster - not CC the mod)



  • Saddam hated the United States, and had malicious intent towards us. What other reasons do you need?

    1. Iraqi officials had been in contact with Al Quaeda operatives.
    2. Saddam was a corrupt dictator that butchered his own people. Im not the emotional type, so this one doesnt really bother me, but you libs who think with your hearts should certainly want to do something about this!
    3. Any dumbass can figure out that Saddam hid his weapons, as he was forwarned of the invasion, and had a tremendous amount of time dispose of anything illegal.

    To sum up my thoughts. You know these are perfectly legitimate reasons, but you are desperate to find any reason you can to bash the president. If you dont like the president, dont make shit up about him, find something he has done that really is wrong, like not taking care of the border.



  • @cystic:

    Hey Major
    Don’t try to derail this with crap. 
    He asked a legitimate question - all you are doing is providing a non-sequitor that is (not-cleverly) designed to discredit the poster in a feeble attempt to de-legitimize the question.

    If you have an honest non-insulty answer, then post it.  Otherwise find a hole to sit in.

    (oh yeah - this is CC the poster - not CC the mod)

    dude clam down i wasnt insulting anyone, his name is patton so i put a patton qoute in thier, it made sence to me. the point is maybe we as americans really do love to fight, every other generation or so we find our selves in a big war, maybe not world war scale, but big enough. I think patton knew what he ment. we as americans always seem to find a reason to fight a war, no matter how dumb the reason. i think you could say that is what happened in Iraq. just because i dont write something filled with wit, or list things off dosnt mean i am not trying to take away from the original question. what i said in my first post was valid. and what you said added nothing to this thread other than a pst people have to read to get through to something better.



  • @marine36:

    Saddam hated the United States, and had malicious intent towards us. What other reasons do you need?

    so this means that you are next invading which middle eastern/asian/south American nation? 
    This is stupid.  You set yourself up to be hated, and then attack people who attack you.  If i went around kicking dogs around, and one of them bit my heel, then it is appropriate for me to destroy it?

    1. Iraqi officials had been in contact with Al Quaeda operatives.

    never proven and often discredited

    1. Saddam was a corrupt dictator that butchered his own people. Im not the emotional type, so this one doesnt really bother me, but you libs who think with your hearts should certainly want to do something about this!

    i don’t buy it as the US establishes these kinds of dictators all of the time.  Also he hadn’t to the degree that his people had been butchered SUBSEQUENT to the invasion in over 10 years.

    1. Any dumbass can figure out that Saddam hid his weapons, as he was forwarned of the invasion, and had a tremendous amount of time dispose of anything illegal.

    there are only a handfull of people who buy this.  Not even Bush believes this, nor does anyone (apparently) who has been involved in the investigation of the WMD’s.

    To sum up my thoughts. You know these are perfectly legitimate reasons, but you are desperate to find any reason you can to bash the president.

    this is untrue - actually VERY ignorant.  I was reasonably happy with him until he actually invaded.  I thought he acted reasonably w.r.t. Afghanistan, and i also am pro-life.

    If you dont like the president, dont make sh*t up about him, find something he has done that really is wrong, like not taking care of the border.

    as mentioned - i didn’t dislike him before, but since his actions here, i pretty much hate him.



  • Well, here is one that few mention (and no, I am not a leftist whack-job)

    Because Saddam ordered an assasination attempt against Bush 43’s father during his visit to Kuwait after Clinton’s election.

    If someone tried to kill MY father, I’d go after them too.



  • This one is a no brainer, but I will spell it out agian.  Iraq is part of the war on terror, it has a strategic location that we can threaten just about every other country in the middle east from.  It’s people were not as fanatical as lets say, Iran or Saudi Arabia so it was thought that there would be less resistance (and there has been, most of the “insurgents” now are not Iraqi.)

    You say you don’t want to be called a left wing nut job, but you say we went to war for oil.  That does not even warrant a response.  PBS?  BBC?  These are “balanced” but I am sure you think Fox news is Hitler TV right?

    There were WMD in my opinion, where they are now is anyone’s guess and someone should be held accountable for them not being found… because I am sure they did/do exist.  IF SH was willing to give his airforce to a country he fought with for a decade rather than let us destroy it, what makes you think he wouldn’t do the same thing with his WMDs?  And as for you “no torture” people.  If we aren’t torturing SH we are fools.  Those WMDs could end up here.

    Back to my original statement.  With troops in Iraq we can threaten anyone who supports terrorist.  That is a huge detterant IMO.  If more planes crash into buildings, more regime changes will be in order.  The leaders of these countries know this, and what assitance we have gotten from them is because of the fear of “we might be next”.

    Lastly, this war was not fought over oil, but since you bring it up…

    Oil isn’t a good enough reason to fight huh?  You willing to sink to 3rd world status overnight?  That’s what would happen if we did not have oil.  So unless you want to live out of a hut and have to hunt for food, you better be willing to fight for oil.



  • On the WMD front…

    It should be noted that a few months back the United Nations run IAEA filed a FORMAL COMPLAINT against the US for tranporting nuclear materials from Iraq without their permission, eventhough we notified them in advance of the transfer.

    Initial story here
    http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/07/07/iraq.nuclear/


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    Oil isn’t a good enough reason to fight huh?

    Oil works just fine for me! whatever gets us in under any pretext to trick the hyterical masses i allways say…



  • @ncscswitch:

    Well, here is one that few mention (and no, I am not a leftist whack-job)

    Because Saddam ordered an assasination attempt against Bush 43’s father during his visit to Kuwait after Clinton’s election.

    If someone tried to kill MY father, I’d go after them too.

    i am all for that, but it would be me doing the fighting, i wouldnt make anyone else fight for me.
    iraq is a key location. and it has become a beacon for every crazy teroist waana be, if one day we are able to do the right thing and clean house the middle east might just be quite long enough to make something out of it.



  • Hermann Goering:  Naturally the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for . . . "

    “Beware of the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry, [who] infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How will I know? For this I have done. And I am Julius Caesar.”

    “I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they’d never expect it.”

    “War is like a big machine that no one really knows how to run and when it gets out of control it ends up destroying the things you thought you were fighting for, and a lot of other things you kinda forgot you had.”

    Basically Bush has run out of things to scare the US with.  Your people have finally realized that the paper tiger has caught fire and burned down the house.  The emperor has no clothes and your countrymen are finally realizing this.  The fact is that Bush can’t see any other choice than to hang in there. 
    But you are right Patton+.  The reason you started the war is because Bush scared you into thinking you were being attacked.  You no longer see that that was even possible by Saddam and that an intact Iraq was actually less of a terrorist threat than that mess you have brewed up in the US.



  • Funny you quoted him, many liberals like the quotes of a man sentenced to death telling his captors pretty much anything they wanted to hear.

    I had no idea you had such great respect for high ranking National Socialist and their views on politics!  Are you a practicing member?  Him “seeing the light” before he was executed makes great quotes for people like you… never mind the other things he did (I know, he killed himself).  Yes, we should all look at the US as the next Nazi Germany with Cheney being the new Goering or some other such nonsense.

    Yep, pick and chose your quotes.  At least your hypocrisy is not limited to religious text.



  • if this is true, which it might very well be, that sucks we don’t have a Rommel with us. in a world of chaos he at least kept his cool. and hopefully our Rommel wouldn’t mess up the assassination deal either.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Hermann Goering:  Naturally the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for . . . "

    “Beware of the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry, [who] infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How will I know? For this I have done. And I am Julius Caesar.”

    Hey CC awesome quotes! I dont buy your analogy but they are nice anyway. GJ



  • You are at war because a conservative think tank made plans, 9-11 allowed to strike one country, and the people behind GWB used the impetus. …
    So, both the “keep them scared” and the “Iraq is a strategic position” are right.
    If you don’ t believe it, look at this:
    http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

    Of course, invading a strategic position for no other reason than it being a strategic position is an offensive war and should be heavily sanctioned, as it is illegal by international laws and contracts that even the USA signed.
    I think, next time i wait for a train or something like that, i will look out for a strategic position and kill the person that stands on it. After all, it is a strategic position.



  • @Zooey72:

    Funny you quoted him, many liberals like the quotes of a man sentenced to death telling his captors pretty much anything they wanted to hear.

    I had no idea you had such great respect for high ranking National Socialist and their views on politics!  Are you a practicing member?  Him “seeing the light” before he was executed makes great quotes for people like you… never mind the other things he did (I know, he killed himself).  Yes, we should all look at the US as the next Nazi Germany with Cheney being the new Goering or some other such nonsense.

    Yep, pick and chose your quotes.  At least your hypocrisy is not limited to religious text.

    If you could shoot the way that you could pick out the point in a post, then you couldn’t hit the f**king ground!
    I have no respect for the evil that these people have wrought - just comparing their agendas and methods to the man you worship in Washington.



  • @cystic:

    @Zooey72:

    Funny you quoted him, many liberals like the quotes of a man sentenced to death telling his captors pretty much anything they wanted to hear.

    I had no idea you had such great respect for high ranking National Socialist and their views on politics!  Are you a practicing member?  Him “seeing the light” before he was executed makes great quotes for people like you… never mind the other things he did (I know, he killed himself).  Yes, we should all look at the US as the next Nazi Germany with Cheney being the new Goering or some other such nonsense.

    Yep, pick and chose your quotes.  At least your hypocrisy is not limited to religious text.

    If you could shoot the way that you could pick out the point in a post, then you couldn’t hit the f**king ground!
    I have no respect for the evil that these people have wrought - just comparing their agendas and methods to the man you worship in Washington.

    You missed the point, when he said those things he was about to die.  You take what he says as being his agenda and not that he was trying to aviod being hung.  WW2 magazine had an article on his surrender this month, the man is a pompous ass who would do anything to save his own neck.  But since he said something that you agree with than he is comepletely right?

    The fear angle?  If there is such a thing both sides play it.  Falk is talking about a “conservative think tank” that controlled wheter we went to war or not, like it is the illumanti or something.  The evil men in Washington are puppeteers pulling our strings, always lying…  so don’t trust them… trust us!

    Your quotes apply just as much to that as it does to GWB.  And in the end, they came from a high ranking Nazi that would have pushed his own mother down a flight of stairs to save his own life.



  • @Zooey72:

    @cystic:

    @Zooey72:

    Funny you quoted him, many liberals like the quotes of a man sentenced to death telling his captors pretty much anything they wanted to hear.

    I had no idea you had such great respect for high ranking National Socialist and their views on politics!  Are you a practicing member?  Him “seeing the light” before he was executed makes great quotes for people like you… never mind the other things he did (I know, he killed himself).  Yes, we should all look at the US as the next Nazi Germany with Cheney being the new Goering or some other such nonsense.

    Yep, pick and chose your quotes.  At least your hypocrisy is not limited to religious text.

    If you could shoot the way that you could pick out the point in a post, then you couldn’t hit the f**king ground!
    I have no respect for the evil that these people have wrought - just comparing their agendas and methods to the man you worship in Washington.

    You missed the point, when he said those things he was about to die.  You take what he says as being his agenda and not that he was trying to aviod being hung.  WW2 magazine had an article on his surrender this month, the man is a pompous a** who would do anything to save his own neck.  But since he said something that you agree with than he is comepletely right?

    again you missed the point.  You are really terrible with this.  It is not that i agree with him or that he is completely right, but rather i am seeing GW acting as though inspired by this bit of “wisdom”. 
    And if you ever judge me as being sympathetic to a Nazi again simply because i use a quote from him to decry a pointless war, i’m ignoring you.  This b.s. personal insult thing that you do in order to try to discredit my position is really tiresome.

    The fear angle?  If there is such a thing both sides play it.  Falk is talking about a “conservative think tank” that controlled wheter we went to war or not, like it is the illumanti or something.  The evil men in Washington are puppeteers pulling our strings, always lying…  so don’t trust them… trust us!

    it’s just when you see them lying, manipulating information etc. it is easy to consider it difficult to trust them - especially when their lies have the kinds of consequences that we are seeing Americans suffer.



  • @Zooey72:

    …Falk is talking about a “conservative think tank” …

    (a) it was you saying that Stalin (or the Jews) was an/ were ‘idiot, because Hitler had written down all his plans in Mein Kampf and all you needed to do was read it’.
    (b) Follow the link. The publication exists. The think tank exists. The plans exist.
    © Overcome your lazyness and read the paper.



  • @cystic:

    @Zooey72:

    @cystic:

    @Zooey72:

    Funny you quoted him, many liberals like the quotes of a man sentenced to death telling his captors pretty much anything they wanted to hear.

    I had no idea you had such great respect for high ranking National Socialist and their views on politics!  Are you a practicing member?  Him “seeing the light” before he was executed makes great quotes for people like you… never mind the other things he did (I know, he killed himself).  Yes, we should all look at the US as the next Nazi Germany with Cheney being the new Goering or some other such nonsense.

    Yep, pick and chose your quotes.  At least your hypocrisy is not limited to religious text.

    If you could shoot the way that you could pick out the point in a post, then you couldn’t hit the f**king ground!
    I have no respect for the evil that these people have wrought - just comparing their agendas and methods to the man you worship in Washington.

    You missed the point, when he said those things he was about to die.  You take what he says as being his agenda and not that he was trying to aviod being hung.  WW2 magazine had an article on his surrender this month, the man is a pompous a** who would do anything to save his own neck.  But since he said something that you agree with than he is comepletely right?

    again you missed the point.  You are really terrible with this.  It is not that i agree with him or that he is completely right, but rather i am seeing GW acting as though inspired by this bit of “wisdom”. 
    And if you ever judge me as being sympathetic to a Nazi again simply because i use a quote from him to decry a pointless war, i’m ignoring you.  This b.s. personal insult thing that you do in order to try to discredit my position is really tiresome.

    The fear angle?  If there is such a thing both sides play it.  Falk is talking about a “conservative think tank” that controlled wheter we went to war or not, like it is the illumanti or something.  The evil men in Washington are puppeteers pulling our strings, always lying…  so don’t trust them… trust us!

    it’s just when you see them lying, manipulating information etc. it is easy to consider it difficult to trust them - especially when their lies have the kinds of consequences that we are seeing Americans suffer.

    Ok CC, I thought you could see the sarcasm in what I said.  I thought it was blatant, but I guess not.  So here it is, I don’t think you are at all sympathetic to the Nazis or their leadership.  MY POINT is that goering told his captors what they wanted to hear.  Much like good ole tookie was probably doing for the last couple of decades trying to avoid being killed.  Just because what he said strikes some kind of wisdom in your heart when it applies to GWB does not excuse the fact that those things were said under the circumstance of him being put to death.  He said a lot of crap to get out of being killed, “Hitler did it all” etc etc.  You picked the show boat of the Nazi party to claim this revelation.  He had what I would call a “parade” of vehicles come in with him when he surrendered (you should get WW2 mag.  great stuff in that).  Why pick these quotes at this time?  Because it backs what you believe?  That is being selective as hell as far as “the intelegence” you want to look at (I put it that way because of the accusations against Bush being selective).

    You took what you wanted from the quote, and ignored everything else.  This is an A&A board, I know you know how goering was (as do most of the posters here).  Don’t you think it “propaganda” that you posted his quotes w/o telling all the facts?

    I do apolagize if you took it as me calling you a Nazi sympathizer.  I thought the sarcasm of my post was very straight forward.  I have an opinion of you CC, and not all of it is nice, but one thing I don’t for one second believe is that you are a Nazi sypathizer.  If anything, you are the opposite.  My criticism is that your post was meant to be “a revelation” into the sick mind of GWB (and btw, being an American I do take offense that you compare our leaders to the Nazis… but I guess that is ok since it is GWB).

    And Mein Kamp falk… well, I don’t remember GWB trying to mount a coup (god, please don’t bring up the elections of 2000) or spending prison time and writing an auto biography detailing his plans to invade Iraq.  A “think tank”?  I am sure that we have plans somewhere to invade the arctic, that does not make those plans our policy.



  • I repeat myself and advise you to follow point ©.



  • First i must apologize to everyone…

    i started this thread to perhaps get some info into what some people think about why we are at war…
    i gave the three reasons that i thought we were at war when it all started and i got a few links of info which i checked out here and there… (even contimplated jumping back in earlier than now, but i just got CIV 5 and its been sucking my soul.)
    one from NCS oh hell let me just quote him…
    @ncscswitch:

    Initial story here http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/07/07/iraq.nuclear/

    and i checked that story, but alas low grade uranium isn’t a WMD, it has to be refined in facilities like the ones that Korea wants to build… err I haven’t kept up on them recently… but i do know they wanna, not sure if they have for certain… But i do know that no one wants them to have those facilities…

    Also, NCS I never realized that 43 had a hit on him? but sounds like a personal grudge hell i know the bush family has ties and money… shouldn’t they beable to take revenge without taking the nation to war?

    secondly i got a link from f_alk… Can we bring up the view finder (Patton looks towards his tech crew and grimaces for the delay) ahh here it comes…
    @F_alk:

    http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

    and well i read that along time ago… and while i agree it is a very strategic position… so is moscow… but hey … you gotta have a reason to occupy the region… but on that note…

    I just want you guys to remember that when this war started It was projected as a short term goal… 1.2 billion dollar goal ( this is what i remember, i lived through this and disagreed from the beginning, if you want i will go out and bring back a link)… and well the oil was suppose to take care of the rest… i do believe that was in the projection of spending… ahh anyway currently were at *100 that original goal (that would be 1.2b *100 = 120b) anyway i am just saying we were totally mislead… for others gains… and who got a unchecked bid to rebuild? please ahh anyone i leave that to you to research come back with a link please.(ahh another gimme… good ol burton)

    Lastly since i was schooled… i would just like point one two and three answered so i can learn point one was…
    Iraq = 9/11 ??? i thought it would be the Saudi royal family since they all share the same last name, and the fact that he is there son? ahh oh well … just a thought? yeah yeah i know some guy getting torture said it was connected to Iraq, but he also said later he said it to keep from getting zapped again… ahh wee torture works to get the info you wanna hear…

    point two … ahh well that was a gimme … yeah he is a bad man… just why was that finally important???(did anyone think about that?) we have had a war that was sanctioned in the past after he did the dirty deed of gassing, we didn’t take care of it then… and on a side note when he did it we didn’t really care, he was an ally then… (humm thinking back maybe baby bush doesn’t have the ties I thought he did, and has to take us to war for his own personal vengance… ahh just a thought don’t take it for more than it is.)

    point three… WMD none to be found… hell the weapon inspectors told us that … ahh yeah… its true that conspiracy theories riddle this question… but as a fact none are found, nor probably ever will be…

    and please, "FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY "quit answering my questions like this
    http://www.comedycentral.com/sitewide/media_player/play.jhtml?itemId=35712



  • In addition to the nuclear material, there have also been a number of chemical weapons artillery shells and missile warheads found within the past year; some of which had traces of Sarin in them (be sure to check your stories carefully if you search this online, there were empty warheads found, some found that were reported to be filled with Sarin but were not, and then the ones that had traces of Sarin in them… they had them, the shells had been filled with Sarin at one time, now the Sarin is missing…)

    May not be “vast quantities”, but it does prove that he HAD them, just like the UN, both Bush admins and the Clinton Admin. and the French and the Germans and the Russians, ad infinitum, ad nauseum, said he did.

    The question of course is WHERE are they now?  Are they in Syria as has been floated?  Or did they go to Iran along with all of Iraq’s jets?  And if so, could this additional material be the reason Iran is now so much closer to developing a nuclear weapon AND why they have become so much more beligerant lately?



  • It is doubtful that Saddam would have sent any materials to the Iranians.  He did fight a war with them after all.  An Israeli general recently said that Iraq sent their weapons to Syria, but there hasn’t been any corroborating statements.  Also, remember that Iran doesn’t need Iraq for chemical weapons when it’s looking at nuclear ones.  One thing about states, they don’t trade military-grade nuclear technology with their enemies, and usually not their neighbors either.


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