US Building an industrial complex on Norway


  • 2017 '16 '15 '14 '12

    @WILD:

    I disagree, J1 attack is awesome if you also hit the US Hawaiian fleet along w/Phil Isle and fleet (can be done w/min loss to Japan and virtually no counter attack by the USA). The US loses 2 subs, 2 dd, a cruiser, tpt and the Phil ftr. This sets the US way back on the Pac side, and as much as they would like to go Europe the first couple buys, they can’t!!!

    The UK Pac loses the BB and won’t ever get is NO because you took Kwangtung J1. On J2 you take Malaya so the Anz loses its NO, and if Anz transports over to take Dutch NG you sink it, and prob take it back at some point so they don’t get that NO either.  An IC on FIC (taken J1) will help to topple India and/or China. J2 you start taking the money islands ……and get the DEI NO on J3 using transports you bought J1. Depending on Japans positioning the US could be hard pressed to move its remaining fleet to Hawaii (which can be under threat of invasion) because you sank all their support ships. Without US support for a couple turns the other Pac allies pretty much just back off, play defense and try to salvage what they can as Japan continues to grow into the orange Godzilla.

    It does release the US on the Euro side, but they don’t have much over there to start (would take a couple turns to be relevant). They really can’t move the San Fran fleet through the canal because Japan will take Hawaii easily, and the US is kinda forced to spend on the Pac side to try to stabilize it (or split income which is never a good thing for the allies). This gives the Germans some breathing room in the early going and they can focus on Russia prob w/G2 Barbarossa (bmr buys for Germany also helps keep the Western allies off their back for a while).

    China give you much trouble with this?



  • it’s a recipe for letting the allies stack and hold Yunnan all game and turning China into a monster

    Comes at the cost of losing the land route into Burma and letting China build artillery all game and giving China extra IPC to work with every turn. In contrast, a J2 opening can prevent that from happening.



  • @SubmersedElk:

    it’s a recipe for letting the allies stack and hold Yunnan all game and turning China into a monster

    Comes at the cost of losing the land route into Burma and letting China build artillery all game and giving China extra IPC to work with every turn. In contrast, a J2 opening can prevent that from happening.

    You have to make a choice to threaten Hawaii/Anz, or to crush Asia. At the end of J2 I like to have my options open with fleet and transport(s) at Caroline’s, Phil, and Malaya (having taken Malaya J2 with transports used to take Phil J1). All three can hit Queensland, but taking Sidney is a tough nut to crack (kinda like a sea lion fake, makes them buy inf and play defense). You can threaten sz26 or an invasion of Hawaii if you overload Caroline’s, but that leaves less for Asia. Building an IC J2 on FIC (maybe also on Kwangtung) helps with that though.

    You will trade Yunnan a couple times like in any game (unless the Chinese roll their little lime green A$$e$ off), but the IC(s) you built J2 will start to supply more ground troops for Asia. The Chinese can’t go into FIC, and the UK doesn’t want troops on the coast (to easy for Japan to ampib). Plus you have the 3 transports you built J1 that can come down loaded and troops can stage at Kwangsi J2. You want to use them to take the money isles J3, but some could be left there to push China. If the UK goes balls to the wall and stacks Yunnan you can hit it with a handful of troops and your over inflated air force (should be able to get at least 15 planes maybe more into that battle), if that happens India is a cake walk because the UK won’t have many troops left to defend.



  • Does DOW on J1 or J2 effect neutrality between the Soviets and other Axis powers? If Soviets still have to remain neutral until RD4 do you wait to attack Russia with Germany?



  • @wilk7011:

    Does DOW on J1 or J2 effect neutrality between the Soviets and other Axis powers? If Soviets still have to remain neutral until RD4 do you wait to attack Russia with Germany?

    It does not, but IMO it’s crazy to wait until G4 to attack, it lets the allies build up too much. Allies will typically have 50+ production advantage well through midgame even if they’re not played well. Why give them more time to leverage it? The only reason to wait is to maneuver forces for a more effective attack, and it doesn’t take more than 2 rounds to do any maneuvers you can possibly think of. If Germany doesn’t attack by G3, you have a very timid Axis player who will probably lose.

    Russia has 37 income before Germany attacks, and defensive builds are more efficient than offensive builds. Axis need to be pushing over 50 income worth of units at Russia per turn or its conquest chances diminish, and that’s not even taking UK fighter support into account.


  • '16 '15 '10

    @wilk7011:

    Does DOW on J1 or J2 effect neutrality between the Soviets and other Axis powers? If Soviets still have to remain neutral until RD4 do you wait to attack Russia with Germany?

    No it doesn’t.  Still, Germany should probably declare by G3 and on G2 in some circumstances.

    If you’re skeptical about J1/J2, i would recommend trying the standalone Pacific game a few times, trying each of J1/J2/J3.  The advantages of an early declaration and early expansion for Japan are pretty apparent in that scenario.

    Imho J1 and J2 are also superior to J3 in Global (with 2nd edition rules), but in some exceptional circumstances (Sea Lion with a shot at success) J3 is warranted.

    I’m personally a fan of J1 and have plenty of success with it, but my version does NOT include a J1 attack on Pearl Harbor.  Instead, at the end of J1, Japan should have 3 fleet groups (one by Japan, another by Borneo, another by Phi) that are poised to seize money islands and other critical targets such as Malaya on J2.


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