Russian Revolution question



  • OK, so the RR is triggered and accepted.

    Russia is out of the war.

    Russian troops remain in place wherever they are and are frozen, (setting up local Soviets I assume) they can defend if attacked but otherwise that’s it. Correct?

    CP controlled Russian territories remain controlled by the CP and the $ is now the loot of the CP who owns it.  Correct?

    If the British attack into Russia from India or wherever, can they fight the Russians? Take income from them? I see no rule that suggests they can’t.

    IF so, and you allow unlimited British builds in India, the CP will have to garrison the Eastern area.

    Can they liberate Moscow?  If they do what happens? Simply British get 6 ipc’s or can Russia get back into the war?



  • @legion3:

    OK, so the RR is triggered and accepted.

    Russia is out of the war.

    Russian troops remain in place wherever they are and are frozen, (setting up local Soviets I assume) they can defend if attacked but otherwise that’s it. Correct?

    CP controlled Russian territories remain controlled by the CP and the $ is now the loot of the CP who owns it.  Correct?

    If the British attack into Russia from India or wherever, can they fight the Russians? Take income from them? I see no rule that suggests they can’t.

    IF so, and you allow unlimited British builds in India, the CP will have to garrison the Eastern area.

    Can they liberate Moscow?  If they do what happens? Simply British get 6 ipc’s or can Russia get back into the war?

    1. You are wrong. Russia has to remove all their units from the board unless if a territory is being contested, Russia has to leave 1 infantry to represent that the territory is being contested and the CPs has to do the same, but the rest of the units in the terrritory can leave it and Russia cannot participate in any battles.

    2. Your are correct on this.

    3. The allies cannot go into any russian territories(including contested) except for the territories controlled by the CPs which they can take over that territory they invaded but not liberate. So they cannot fight the Russians

    4. The allies cannot liberate Moscow but can take over it if the CPs took it over.

    I hope that was helpful I’m sure someone else can correct on something I did wrong.



  • So they can’t even enter, lets say, Sevastopol, following revolution, even if no Russian troops are there?

    I am sure if it was in their best interest the British would not hesitate to both enter any unoccupied territory or fight any one time allies…ask the French Fleet in WW2.

    So the Revolution slams shut the back door to Germany and Austria…

    Then that is a better outcome than having Russia’s $



  • That’s absolutely right, legion.  It is meant to be that way.  It can, however, be a two-way street.  Triggering the RR can hurt the CP, as well.  Say, you declare RR rules at the start of the game, then, if I am playing Russia, or the allies, etc., I am going to use Russian troops to represent every neutral territory invaded by the CPs.  Thus, if they (Russians) remain in control of the TT and the CPs can’t take the neutral TT before the RR, that TT is now completely off-limits.  Additionally, the CPs only have one turn to move all their units out of contested territories of Russia, or they are removed themselves, I believe.  Plus, if Moscow is not taken by the RR, there can be a huge money pit missing from the CPs, which they desperately need to continue the long war.

    So, yeah, it’s something heavy to weigh before starting games.  I like the discussions about it, though.



  • I get that, the Russian $ is really important to the CP’s, particually the Germans. But not having a second front of that size to worry about sounds good too.

    It basically makes the eastern front only in Turkey and allows only one avenue for the Brits to take in that part of the world.

    I’m going to try another game and makes sure the RR rules are used precisely…that way I can watch another way for the CP to lose.  :oops:



  • Dude, you’re totally right.  It is quite depressing how the odds heavily favor the Entente/Allies.  No matter how you strategize or get lucky on rolls.  Well, getting lucky on rolls is actually a helping hand.  Though, it really depends on how terribly the Allied players play/react/counter the CP moves.



  • the RR can never be triggered: everybody seems to forget Russian can just abandon Moscow and keep their army as a whole (and achieving RR without contesting Moscow is next to impossible)
    the only way to stop is it take all surrouding countries: but karelia can easily be taken by UK, and holding Tatarstan is also an overstretch.



  • I dont see how RR can be avoided really if CP goes all in… Though CPs and especially AH needs to be ultra aggressive on the eastern front, meaning moving pratically everything that way in the first round and have something like 32inf/8art and 1 plane ready to hit Ukrane round 2.



  • so what would occur lets say if the British already occupy Russian territory? British troops in Sevastopol or Khazikstan? before the RR is triggered.

    Do they have to leave?



  • As far as I have read correctly, Errata FAQ and all, yes.  They, too, have to move out of the territory within one turn after the RR.  NOTE:  The Allies can never occupy Russian TT, only liberate (I think).



  • Just thought I’d comment on a few things in this thread…

    Errata/FAQ for reference.

    @WraithZer0:

    Thus, if they (Russians) remain in control of the TT and the CPs can’t take the neutral TT before the RR, that TT is now completely off-limits.

    This isn’t the case. The Errata/FAQ says that “Russia immediately relinquishes control of” “non-original territories that Russia controls when the armistice occurs” (Page 2, heading “The Russian Revolution”)

    @WraithZer0:

    NOTE:  The Allies can never occupy Russian TT, only liberate (I think).

    This also isn’t the case. Any Russian territory controlled by the CPs at the time of the Revolution “remain ~~under Central Powers control, but [is] considered to have no original controller for the remainder of the game.” (Page 2, heading “The Russian Revolution”)

    Example:
    Austria-Hungary’s Turn: Germany controls Karelia, Livonia, and Belarus, and Austria-Hungary controls Ukraine. Britain has 2 inf in Sevastopol. AH conquers Tatarstan and contests Moscow, leaving no troops in Ukraine and Romania.
    Russia’s Turn: Revolution happens. Moscow becomes a shared territory between Russia & the CP. Russia removes all but 1 inf from Moscow to reflect this status.
    Britain’s Turn: Their two inf in Sevastopol must leave this turn or be deported to Siberia (removed from the game). Britain chooses to conquer Ukraine and Romania each with 1 inf, collecting an extra 6 IPCs.

    Another thing to note is the the CPs don’t have to move out of territories they share with Russia, they just have to leave at least one inf when doing so. (So make sure you keep two inf when contesting Moscow or have one in an adjacent territory to allow the artillery to move out!) They are also permitted to move back in if they want.

    @legion3:

    Can they liberate Moscow?  If they do what happens? Simply British get 6 ipc’s or can Russia get back into the war?

    If the CPs outright captured Moscow (no Revolution), the Allies can liberate Moscow. Russia never stopped being an Allied power in this case, so they should be no different from Paris or Rome being captured and liberated to get the respective power back in the war. If there was a Revolution, Moscow is either controlled by Russia or shared by Russia & the CPs, so no Allies could move into it to “liberate” it.~~



  • Wow, thanks for correcting me, Colonel.  It’s amazing how many times I can read something in the AAA rulebooks/Errata and still get it wrong.



  • does the revolution occur at end of start of russian turn?



  • End.



  • While I get that is a rule for game play

    How exactly are two fully equipped British Infantry (Divisions, Armies?) going to be deported to Siberia?  😮

    If the Russian Army is not strong enough to expel me then the mobs of the revolution sure won’t be.

    I think if I were in command I would order my men to fire on any “Reds” who attempted to take my Enfield’s from me.  😉



  • Followup question; Can Rus Rev occur as a result of Russia’s play. 2 examples; 1) AH controls TAT, SEV, and LIV, and contests UKR.  Russia move out of contested UKR which gives control to AH - thus causing all conditions for Rus Revolution.  Example 2) AH controls MOS, SEV, TAT, LIV, and UKR.  Russian attacks from Belarus to MOS to make it contested (or controlled).  Now the conditions for Revolution are
    in effect.  So does Rus Rev happen in both examples?



  • In example 1, yes. Russian Revolution conditions are only checked at the end of the round, so it doesn’t matter what the territories looked like before Russia’s turn. Example 2 I’m not sure would happen. I could’ve sworn if Moscow is captured the Russian Revolution can’t happen afterward, but I can’t find confirmation of that anywhere. Maybe ask that in the FAQ thread to see if Krieghund will answer.


  • Official Answers

    @ColonelCarter:

    Example 2 I’m not sure would happen. I could’ve sworn if Moscow is captured the Russian Revolution can’t happen afterward, but I can’t find confirmation of that anywhere.

    That’s not true.  It can still happen if Moscow is subsequently liberated or becomes contested.



  • Alright, thanks Krieg.



  • Adding write-up of procedure we use…
    Divided into 2 parts, territory is either Original or Non-Original.

    PROCEDURE:

    The Revolution can occur at the end of any Russian turn starting with turn 4.
    At that time an Armistice is offered FROM the new Soviet Russia power TO the Central Powers.  
    The offer is NOT optional and is a ONE time offer, that is accepted or rejected.  
    IF ACCEPTED…

    No further battle against Russian units is permitted.  Travel into territories with ONLY Russian units is forbidden.

    Non-Original Russian Territories and Sea Zones (including Serbia and Romania)
    1.  Remove all Russian units.
    2.  Remove all Russian sea units.
    3.  Remove all Russian control tokens, plus, as applies after step 1, if territory is…
    a.  Contested…
        No further action.
    b.  Other AP or CP powers only…
        Captured territories goes to remaining power, or if multiple, their choice.
        Original territories, control goes to original power. Exception: If original AP
                   power’s capital is captured, then control goes to other AP power (if any).
           c.  No units of any power…
                Original territories, control goes to original power.
                All other territories are uncontrolled.

    Original Russian Territories
    1.  Remove all Russian units, except leave 1 infantry unit where units exist.
    2.  Establish territory control…
        a.  Controlled by a CP power…
             The territory remains in that CP power’s control.  The CP power will continue
     to collect IPC income.  Treat these same as any other neutral territory.  These
              can never become Russian territories again.
        b.  Contested, but only with non-Russian powers…
             1.  Add 1 Russian infantry unit.
             2.  Follow step c.
        c.  Contested…
             Territory remains contested for remainder of game.  However the CP player
      is allowed movement through the territory if it maintains a garrison.  AP players
      cannot enter these territories. Plus see step e. ** If CP leaves, it cannot re-enter.**
        d.  Occupied with other AP power(s) only…
             1.  Add 1 Russian infantry unit.
             2.  Follow step e.          
        e.  Shared with other AP power(s) (with or without CP powers)…
             AP player must leave Russia by end of their next move once the revolution
     has occurred or they will be removed from the board.  No battle is allowed in
    these territories.  Contested movement restriction (pg 15) does not apply.
        f.  Controlled by Russians only…
            1.  Add 1 Russian infantry in none exists.  Entry by AP/CP powers is forbidden.


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