Key strategy Axis



  • I think one of the main issues of the game is when Japan should strike! I know it depends on wether Germany will choose Sea Lion or Barbarossa, so let’s assume Germany will choose Barbarossa (and faking Sea Lion in the first turn of course!).

    Thank you for voting and please add comments as to why you made your choise.



  • It really depends also on the situation on the board, where are the russian units in the east all 18 on amur = kill them. if they pulled back you cant.
    What is your general plan starve the allies out or going for a quick moscow grab?

    Faking sealion and then doing an J1 does nothing as the UK can safely know you are not doing sealion anymore and can ignore your fake. If you really want to fake sealion you should not attack with japan to create the illusion even better. But ofcourse it removes options in the east.


  • 2015

    As shadowbird said, this question is filled with flawed premises or constraining ambiguity. Can’t be answered as-is.

    If A, and if B, etc, J1 is usually best. But never always.



  • Oke here are premises:

    • Russia will of course withdraw alle it’s forces from the Far East, or else Moscow will be even more in danger;
    • The main strategy is starvind the allies out, and taking Moscow eventually;

    @ Shadow Hawk: can you not combine a faking of Sea Lion and a J1 attack? Why not? I and all my opponents fake Sea Lion every game… I know the US has more money to spend, but if it is all spend in the Atlantic, Japan will win the game for the Axis…

    Thanks!



  • You fake sealion so the UK will spend in defence and not in afrika.
    However a J1 will make sealion nearly impossible to pull off, US can even land fighters on the UK on US2 and extra units.

    Since Japan goes before UK the effect of the fake is lost before the country you wish to influence has to make its move.



  • Okay, thank you. DOW vs. US/UK in J1 is not a good strategy combined with Sea Lion…



  • Well it is kinda is but it does not work with a faint.

    What happens is that after a J1 the US will go full pacific and the UK will asume no sealion anymore.
    Well not always but a lot of the time this happens, because a J1 is pretty strong so US has to put stuff there to contain japan.
    Especialy if you buy a bomber + destr + sub and move your inf towards russia.

    Sealion is best done as a surprise attack. So actualy faint not doing a sealion and then turn 2 buy the transports and bomb the crap out of the production on the UK. Round 3 = exit UK and with the US out in the pacific it might take them a few turns to get over to london. Enough time to get your tanks out and reinforce against russia imo ( but i have not do this enough )


  • 2015

    I believe the fake Sealion can be countered with a UK1 buy of 2 fighters.  Move the units from Scotland to London, bring up that fighter from Gibraltar and suddenly London has 7 fighters, making it harder for Germany to think about Raiding it.  Even if Germany still went for the Raid, London should have about 42 to spend (saving 8 from the first turn), which means they could repair damage and still be able to buy a stack of infantry.  Let’s say Germany decides to Sealion and went in with 2 bombers, doing 12 damage; 42 is a repaired factory + ten inf, leaving London with 16 inf, 1 mech, 5 AA and 7 fighters.  That’s a pretty solid defense



  • Does it actually matter when Japan declares or whether UK spends in Africa? The Axis don’t need to contest Africa at all to roll to an easy win.

    The key problem is that Axis has a number of ways to have an offensive force double as a defensive deterrent while the Allies have none. It’s a force multiplier that can’t be countered. For example, a fleet sitting off Kwangsi with a harbor and airfield built, with extra air parked in Kwangsi as well can a) keep the Allied Pac fleet at enough of a distance to prevent them from threatening anything; b) defend the entire Asian coast from Malaya to Korea; and c) pose a mortal threat to Calcutta and force the UK Pac forces to sit at home; d) degrade UK Pac income; e) support counterattacks against DEI; and f) support a quick rollover of China.

    Losses can be replaced in 1 turn while Allied losses will take 2-3 turns to replace. And this can be set up by J2.

    Germany can do something similar as well just by keeping its aircraft in Western Germany, preventing fleet building by the UK while defending against any landing that might be made, and threatening Russia and the Med at the same time.

    Axis can mass their forces immediately and easily while the Allies can’t and this presents a fundamental gameplay problem on this map.



  • @SubmersedElk:

    Does it actually matter when Japan declares or whether UK spends in Africa? The Axis don’t need to contest Africa at all to roll to an easy win.

    The key problem is that Axis has a number of ways to have an offensive force double as a defensive deterrent while the Allies have none. It’s a force multiplier that can’t be countered. For example, a fleet sitting off Kwangsi with a harbor and airfield built, with extra air parked in Kwangsi as well can a) keep the Allied Pac fleet at enough of a distance to prevent them from threatening anything; b) defend the entire Asian coast from Malaya to Korea; and c) pose a mortal threat to Calcutta and force the UK Pac forces to sit at home; d) degrade UK Pac income; e) support counterattacks against DEI; and f) support a quick rollover of China.

    Losses can be replaced in 1 turn while Allied losses will take 2-3 turns to replace. And this can be set up by J2.

    Germany can do something similar as well just by keeping its aircraft in Western Germany, preventing fleet building by the UK while defending against any landing that might be made, and threatening Russia and the Med at the same time.

    Axis can mass their forces immediately and easily while the Allies can’t and this presents a fundamental gameplay problem on this map.

    The force modifier only works once and after that it doens’t

    So you have your fleet at kansi, now korea and japan mainland need to be defended against US forces from hawai.
    Sure it can counter but if you lost japan im not bothered about losing my fleet against yours.

    Or if ill take carolines with a sizable force and have my backup forces in hawai and Queensland. Now you can kill my fleet ill destroy whats left of yours and india is free to walk up to kansi and take your bases.

    Airforce in germany is nice, as long as it is there it cannot help in russia, and once it flies off that UK fleet of gibraltar can hit anything it wants. You even have to put a lot of in with those aircraft otherwise i might just suicide my inf+art on them and destroy most of your airunits on the ground.

    Yes air can be used pretty efficient in this game but it does not mean it is impossible to fight against.
    And without afrika Italy has nearly no income at all so the allies will have a lot extra income to spend on ships to defend their fleet.



  • I really like a J2 declaration. Yes, you let the British battleship get away, and the Philippines fleet also escapes, but I find that the one turn to get everything into position gives me a much more effective punch. I find that with a J1 it’s practically impossible to shut down the Burma road as you’re just so much more spread out everywhere, like you’re paper thin in every direction. J2 just feels more methodical to me, and your territory grabs don’t feel as half hearted.



  • I’ve posted on my group’s experience on another thread, but I think it’s worth repeating.  We have found Germany and Italy can steam roll Russia and the UK so an American rescue is necessary. As a result, it is imperative for Japan to not declare war until Rd 4. While it limits Japan’s growth the larger objective of keeping America small and on its turf for as long as possible is more important to the grand strategy. Japan is usually able to run hog wild anyway.

    I should also not that we don’t follow the VC win conditions… it’s just all out global domination until someone has to call it and a new world order is established.



  • @Chatdawg:

    I’ve posted on my group’s experience on another thread, but I think it’s worth repeating.  We have found Germany and Italy can steam roll Russia and the UK so an American rescue is necessary. As a result, it is imperative for Japan to not declare war until Rd 4. While it limits Japan’s growth the larger objective of keeping America small and on its turf for as long as possible is more important to the grand strategy. Japan is usually able to run hog wild anyway.

    I should also not that we don’t follow the VC win conditions… it’s just all out global domination until someone has to call it and a new world order is established.

    If you dont care about VC win then yes allies go full bore on Germany, simple fact germany+ italy can be around 150 ipcs. Japan around 90 with No’s. UK-pac and anzac are limited to about 30ish, Russia and UK-EU are limited in the 40-60 range. It does not mather what japan does if it cannot win by itself it will lose with 200+ ipcs vs 90.

    Wondering if the axis ever get a win in your scenario



  • Hey ShadowHawk,

    Axis victories are few and far between but it’s still possible. It requires some good luck and precise coordination by the axis. The axis have the inherent advantages of close HQ in Europe and if they can collapse Russia and Calcutta, they can turn to the outward fronts without being undermined in the middle.

    It’s an enjoyable format and since we rotate sides after each game the Allies are always rooting for the Axis on some level.


  • Customizer

    I had not thought of putting air and naval bases in Kwangsi. I usually base the bulk of my navy by the Philippines which can cover most of the Asian coast.
    My problem is once you commit to something, the Allies/US Navy will screw you up in another spot. It’s especially bad if the US takes the Caroline Islands and stacks their fleet there.  They can reach a lot more places from there.
    A common problem is the Japanese fleet goes out to get the DEI or help attack Calcutta. Then the US fleet immediately goes to SZ 6. Even if they can’t land troops just yet, the US usually takes Iwo Jima and they have a lot of warships to convoy Japan. Next round they start landing bombers in Iwo and plastering Japan’s factory.
    Meanwhile, the great Japan navy is 2-3 turns out of position and by the time they get back together, the US Navy is too strong to get rid of. Also, if Japan attacks them and even if they are successful, after the battle they are too weak to even defend against the ANZAC navy taking DEI islands away.
    Japan may have a lot of territory and seem to be in good shape financially, the convoy raids and SBR damage will cost them a good chunk of their IPCs round after round. If I don’t repair the Japan factory, I can’t put infantry there to defend my capital and eventually the US will have enough transports and land units to make a successful landing. Once that happens, Japan is out of it and all the Japan navy and territories in Asia will really mean nothing.
    Also, say Japan attacks early and kills everything Allied in the water and take all the rich territory in 2-3 rounds so they can get their fleet back together and back up to SZ 6 to protect the capital. Then you are out of position when ANZAC or US sneaks in to take the DEI and possibly other captures from you, especially if you can’t afford to leave garrisons on all of them.
    Any ideas on how to keep the US from shutting you down when you are out trying to grow your territory? OR, how to protect your gains and still keep your capital in the game?
    About the only times I seem to really do go as Japan is when the US goes almost wholly into Europe and puts just enough in the Pacific to delay. In this case I can usually pound ANZAC/UK, keep just enough naval defense to keep the few US units honest and keep my DEI and spread throughout Asia, maybe even threatening Russia.



  • @knp7765:

    I had not thought of putting air and naval bases in Kwangsi. I usually base the bulk of my navy by the Philippines which can cover most of the Asian coast.
    My problem is once you commit to something, the Allies/US Navy will screw you up in another spot. It’s especially bad if the US takes the Caroline Islands and stacks their fleet there.  They can reach a lot more places from there.
    A common problem is the Japanese fleet goes out to get the DEI or help attack Calcutta. Then the US fleet immediately goes to SZ 6. Even if they can’t land troops just yet, the US usually takes Iwo Jima and they have a lot of warships to convoy Japan. Next round they start landing bombers in Iwo and plastering Japan’s factory.
    Meanwhile, the great Japan navy is 2-3 turns out of position and by the time they get back together, the US Navy is too strong to get rid of. Also, if Japan attacks them and even if they are successful, after the battle they are too weak to even defend against the ANZAC navy taking DEI islands away.
    Japan may have a lot of territory and seem to be in good shape financially, the convoy raids and SBR damage will cost them a good chunk of their IPCs round after round. If I don’t repair the Japan factory, I can’t put infantry there to defend my capital and eventually the US will have enough transports and land units to make a successful landing. Once that happens, Japan is out of it and all the Japan navy and territories in Asia will really mean nothing.
    Also, say Japan attacks early and kills everything Allied in the water and take all the rich territory in 2-3 rounds so they can get their fleet back together and back up to SZ 6 to protect the capital. Then you are out of position when ANZAC or US sneaks in to take the DEI and possibly other captures from you, especially if you can’t afford to leave garrisons on all of them.
    Any ideas on how to keep the US from shutting you down when you are out trying to grow your territory? OR, how to protect your gains and still keep your capital in the game?
    About the only times I seem to really do go as Japan is when the US goes almost wholly into Europe and puts just enough in the Pacific to delay. In this case I can usually pound ANZAC/UK, keep just enough naval defense to keep the few US units honest and keep my DEI and spread throughout Asia, maybe even threatening Russia.

    This is exactly why I stack SZ 6 hard when I play Japan. I splinter the fleet early on, sending just enough south to overwhelm any ANZAC or British fleet (usually 2 subs, 2 destroyers, 2 carriers, 1 cruiser, 1 battleship). This splinter fleet does everything I need it to down south like grab the islands exert pressure on southeast Asia, while the main fleet protects SZ 6 and slowly builds up over time with steady purchasing on my end. SZ 6 is an excellent place to park your fleet because it can hit many different areas (Philippines, Carolines, Hawaii), and forces the US fleet south away from Japan unless they want to risk a naval engagement. There’s also the added protection of kamikaze tokens and scrambling fighters to make SZ 6 an even more favorable position to park your ships.

    In my experience, when Japan loses SZ 6 it usually means they lose the game. The heavy convoy disruptions and inability to produce sea units that don’t get immediately destroyed on the American turn usually spells doom for the Axis in the Pacific.



  • SZ 6 is a terrible spot for the Japanese navy if you’re being focused by the WAllies (it’s fine if you’re left relatively alone and are threatening Hawaii for victory). The DEIs are worth 20 to Japan, Japan+Korea money being convoyed is only 11. The Philippines are the best spot to station the IJN after conquering the DEIs. Add an airbase to FIC and you’re basically unapproachable. Not only does it extend that air’s reach, it also provides a scramble to protect newly built transports/destroyers to reclaim DEIs from the WAllies/reinforce IJN

    The US is going to need a massive fleet to be able to survive in SZ 6/Carolines SZ or use several destroyers as blockers. Every plane you have in FIC w/ an airbase can hit SZ 6, same with the whole fleet at Philippines if it’s not blocked. Carolines SZ isn’t much safer because if you still control one of the islands in the adjacent sea zones (not uncommon as they are valueless, defended, and no facilities), you can “double up” your aircraft carrier capacity when attacking it: Planes on the carriers at Philippines attack the sea zone planning to land on said island and planes from FIC can attack the sea zone planning to land on the carriers. If they do block you with destroyers, then you can kill those with subs and/or planes and take the favorable casualty ratio. Since the US needs a heavily defensive fleet to be able to withstand your counterattack, your fleet at the Philippines is likely unattackable by the US fleet, putting planes on the island for scramble if need be.

    If Russia stacks Bury Rd1, just don’t do a J1 DoW. Crush the Russian stack J1 instead, advance on China and set up a moderately successful J3 DoW (not gonna be ideal because of the Russian diversion. But hey, you get Russian money as a trade-off). Be content that Germany can get a comfortable take of Moscow without worrying about balancing haste and profitability.
    If Russia pulls back for one round and then re-advances to Bury Rd2, this is probably the toughest Japan will have it. Very unlikely that they will take the Pacific victory (unless the US ignores them), but Germany will still get the easy take on Moscow and should be able to turn that into a Europe victory.


Log in to reply
 

Suggested Topics

  • 7
  • 26
  • 33
  • 6
  • 15
  • 12
  • 17
  • 40
I Will Never Grow Up Games

59
Online

13.4k
Users

33.8k
Topics

1.3m
Posts