Reasons why you shouldn't kill France first

  • So I realize that even if you can whack France its still really hard to win let me explain why. I was doing a play test game and Germany’s plan was to kill France first and they were very successful and they captured Paris and I thought the CPs were going to win but then AH kept finding itself on the defense which made Russia in a good position to defend itself and the Ottomans were soon to fall so back to my point. Germany kept having to send troops to defend Paris and couldn’t be aggressive against Russia. So with one ally left which who was trying to survive they then began to loose and they did.

    So my point is that you have to kill Russia first no matter what or you will fail as CPs because you will keep on sending troops to defend Paris and also Russia can take on AH by itself and can help quickly taking out the Ottomans with the British. Does anyone have any arguments or ideas?

  • I’ve come to basically the same conclusion. Your reasoning is also why I believe that to have a chance at victory, the CPs must force the Russian Revolution without taking Sevastopol, because if you do, the British are easily able to attack through there and you end up with the same conundrum of having to spend your increased income solely on defending that very same money.

  • Bump.

  • I have found that France isn’t easy to kill as it is quite strong, still it can be done obviously, but Russia is not weak unless its getting hit by all three CP’s. Russia is always on the defensive if its being triple punched every turn. Leave Russia alone and it becomes a juggernaut, a slow moving one, but a moving one nonetheless.

    I also feel it is better for the CP’s not to trigger the RR, if it happens OK, we will take it, but I would rather have Russian cash in my bank accounts, all of it, Allows the Germans to have some freedom of builds (a navy to slow down US troop movements and pin the UK up in England) and to out produce France on the ground .

  • Taking Moscow takes multiple extra turns and ends up costing many more troops than forcing a Revolution though. Those are extra turns where you are spending more IPCs against Russia than the West, so the extra IPCs from Moscow end up being nullified in the increased momentum France/Italy have.

    Also how do you deal with British troops entering through Sevastopol? Once the British have forced the Ottomans out of Ankara, they don’t have to keep advancing on Constantinople.

  • I agree with CC, forcing RR is much better than taking Moscow since you dont need to waste units and can been done much faster.

  • I was playing the rr wrong.

    I assumed the brits could still enter russian territory and fight the russians if need be.
    Clearly the rr closing the back door to germany is a good strategy.

    On the otherhand I still cant get a cp win even if russia is gone

  • What are you doing after Russia is gone? I am assuming UK are going full tilt towards the Ottomans?
    AH has two as I see it. Option A is using the bare minimum to shield itself from Italaly and using most of its army towards India. Option B is the opposite, sending the bare minimum too keep the Ottomans in the game while trying to kill Italy asap.
    Germany can either go full tilt against France or it can merly shield against France while sending troops towards Italy (only if AH are doing option B).

  • Mostly watching the Allies still win the war.  :wink:

    If the Brits have unlimited India builds, they went mostly toward OE and sent enough to contest Russia forcing both German and Austrian troops to garrison and be active in the east.

    Playing with the real rules that would not occur after the RR.

    So far Italy has never been knocked out of the war, French and US troops arrive to help out. If A-H is no longer worried about the east then that might change.

  • At what round is Russia knocked out? What are the appr. incomes when they do?

    Generelly you wanna knock them out by round 5 and have plus 6 in income each for Germany and AH. Assuming small gains by UK and a some losses by the Ottomans by that time the total income for CPs and allies should look like:

    Allies: 80-85 IPC
    CPs: 80-85 IPC

    Which means its quite open.

  • I think why Italy doesn’t really fall that much is because GB is easily going to push the Ottomans back to Constantinople where they are going to need ally help so this will draw AH troops away from Italy and if AH does threaten Rome thats when US start to even the odds in Italy and they get push back out of Italy and by that time Constantinople has fallen and AH finds itself in a terrifying place with Brits coming from the south and US/Italians coming from the west and outnumbered.

  • After all we have talked through the strategies in this game, is it, in fact, slightly unbalanced?  Was it not play-tested enough?  I want to respect Krieg and Larry and all those who put effort behind smoothing the edges.  However, we all in this forum have had an overwhelming consensus that the CP are almost always doomed to lose (especially in a well-played game by both sides).  The favor is always toward the Entente.  There have been several ironings-out from the previous AAA games.  Just wondering if this is still young enough to get another look and an updated errata?  Though, now that I am so used to it, it may be tough to give the CPs any extra upper hands, haha (scales may never balance correctly).

    Note:  I still absolutely love this game.

  • Even though the game by itself didn’t come with enough pieces (like the German inf) and the map could be a bit bigger and split some territories (like Ukraine) and it favors the allies most of the time it is still an awesome game. With a few modifications this could be an amazing game. I also like it because it is the first A&A that is not WW2 it good to be different sometimes.

  • Yes, sir.

  • I agree this and Gudalcanal (with some home rules) are my two games.

    Always testing new things with 1914, trying to see how to make it better.

    I have every A&A game so getting extra units that mostly match is not a problem…but still its lame it didn’t have enough to begin with. Other versions come with extra units never needed.

    Russian aircraft carriers for ecample…

  • Sorry meant to say my two go to games.

    And usually russia falls in round 4-6 , give or take.

  • Haha, right, legion.  Russian carriers are a fun piece.  Crank one out if you capture Berlin, just for fun.  You are one of my heroes, owning all the AAA games.  That is my goal, one day.  When I have more disposable income.  :-)

  • I started a separate thread for the opposing view. (“Why you should take France first”)

  • Customizer

    Still don’t think CP victory is possible against competent Allied play.

    UK sends whatever is needed to block CP victory until US forces arrive in strength = game over.

    Some solutions:

    RR needs to generate “Red” (i.e. Bolshevik pro-CP) forces in Russia to fight remaining “Whites” and Allies. Also produces free German/Austrian units to represent released POWs.

    Germany needs a second production centre closer to the Western Front, otherwise too many CP units spend early turns in transit rather than fighting. Otherwise allow u/l rail movement between controlled tts.

    USA does not build units or collect income until actually at war. Then it gets one “draft” turn to buy cheap (half price) infantry only.  This represents the fact that until 1917 the US did not intend getting involved, so did not spend more than was usual on the military.

    Victory conditions based on “political collapse” are unworkable since the war will generally always be fought on allied soil. Instead it needs to be a formula based on CPs must control X victory cities by turn Y in order to win.

  • The OOB 1914 is in favor of the Allies.  Never ever take Paris before Moscow (or triggering the Revolution) or you never will.  Current best strategy I have seen is
    1 Take out Russia
    2 Put enough pressure on France just to make the Brits send a few units there and divert IPCs from India
    3 Hold Italy back only securing Venice
    4 Take out Russia
    5 Hold out with the Ottomans and don’t try to get offensive.
    6 Try to make the Americans go to France or Italy and not the Balkans or Turkey
    7 Take our Russia

    I hope I mentioned to take out Russia as fast as possible.

    P.S. I made a 1915 setup for 1914 which uses no house rules but attempts to make the game better through setup change only. Please take a look at it in house rules.

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