Super Heavy Tanks



  • Check out these two machines from U.S. and Germany……

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-28_Super_Heavy_Tank

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus_%28tank%29

    What kind of game stats would you put for these tanks? Would you put them as advanced tech or just have them ready to be bought instead.

    Super-Tank

    Cost: 8, 10 or 12 ???

    Move: 1  (Very slow and heavy)

    Attack: 3    (Same sized cannons as other heavy tanks of the time / not as damaging as battleships main guns or bombers dropping thousands of pounds of bombs which attack from 1-4)

    Defend: 4  (Each supertank improves the defense of 1 infantry unit from 1-3. Similar to the artillery benefit for offense)

    T-28 Special: German infantry do not get the “Atlantic Wall” or “Fortress Europe” defense bonus when attacked by a U.S. force.

    Maus Special: German Super-Tanks defend from 1-5 on the first cycle of combat only. (this represents their ability to move and hide underwater before a coming battle)



  • I think you are making those tanks a little too powerful!


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    My good friend Germany didnt make but 2 prototypes of the Maus, plus some chassis of another larger tank. They didnt see the end of the war, but in the rhealm of fantasy and if Hitler can cacoon long enough to have that last Wagnerian funeral with glorious hardware that would have helped a year earlier… then IMO consider these stats:

    move 1
    attack 5
    defend 6
    cost 10

    they take two hits to destroy, so if they get only one hit they are returned like a BB.



  • Defend six!


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    They were supposed to be  invincible to all but aircraft and  anything but a direct hit wouldnt destroy it. If you have heavy tanks id expect them at 4 and the SS at 5, so these things are at six?



  • I guess I don’t understend.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Well the idea of these super heavy tanks would not be the only piece added as a house rule, so i have to qualify its stats into what i would consider the other additional units being Panzer SS, heavy tanks, etc. These units will have highter values than 3/3 so that super tank needs to be the highest and their are no numbers left (six sided die problem). Is that more clear? I personally dont see how they would be produced in such numbers to warrant their inclusion into game, because each tank unit  basically represents one army level unit (3-5 corps). That would require an equivalent of 500-750 of these super heavy tanks, while germans only had 2 prototypes.



  • i see now, thank you for clearing it up for me, I am really stuipid some time.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    your not stupid at all. I think a better choice would be a new self propelled artillery unit. These were constructed in large numbers and formed into small panzer brigades at Kursk and other battles. They consisted of large formations of tank destroyers which were larger caliber artillery built on a tank chasis. The US had them, as did the germans and soviets.



  • what about the united kingdom?


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    They didnt make any because their colonies were in the desert, which required lighter tanks that can move quickly and wont overheat. IF they had these tanks against Rommel, it would have been a disaster, as they would just dig into the sand. Only US, Soviets and Germany should be allowed to have these. UK and Japan could have perhaps a lighter tank consider:

    Light tank idea:

    attacks 2
    defends 1
    moves 2
    costs 4

    another bonus: each matching light tank can “carry” one matching infantry unit up to +1 movement, So Matching infantry move 2 if moving with a tank… Ideas??



  • Light Tanks (Jap)
    Cost: 5
    Move: 2
    Attack: 2
    Defend: 2

    Medium Tanks (UK / USA?)
    Cost: 5
    Move: 2
    Attack: 3
    Defend: 2

    Heavy Tanks (Germany / USSR/ USA?)
    Cost: 5
    Move: 2
    Attack: 3
    Defend: 3

    Might as well throw in the leader bonuses too for having Rommell or Patton in the field

    Light Tanks are basically below average sized cannons and thinly armored mobile artillery without the infantry support bonus. I dont really like using different versions of all the mass produced tanks of world war 2, not enough difference to distingush each one on a 6 sided die. If you want to get that technical just play axis and allies mineatures. IF you want to do national advantages/drawbacks, give Japs tanks attack of 1-2 and Germany tanks defense of 1-3.



  • How wold you Identify these tanks form others?


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Light Tanks (Jap)
    Cost: 5
    Move: 2
    Attack: 2
    Defend: 2

    Medium Tanks (UK / USA?)
    Cost: 5
    Move: 2
    Attack: 3
    Defend: 2

    Heavy Tanks (Germany / USSR/ USA?)
    Cost: 5
    Move: 2
    Attack: 3
    Defend: 3

    Questions:
    why would USA even buy a medium tank if they can get a heavy for the same price?

    Why would Japan waste 5 bucks on a light tank , when a 3/3 tank can be had for the same price?



  • I meant thats the only type of tank Japan can have. Was there a mass produced Jap tank thats on par with a panther, T-34 or M4. Leave the price at 5, Japan didnt have that many tanks to begin with, since artillery is more useful in the mountainous, wet and muddy terrain of the pacific islands and easier to move with than tanks. Instead of tanks, Japan focused on the use of pillboxes.

    USA gets either 3/2 or 3/3, not both depending on how you compare the M4 to T-34’s and panthers.

    This is starting to become pointless, not much difference to show on a 6 sided die. So keep all armor the same, either all 3/2 or 3/3 at 5 ipc. If your gonna change stats for each nations tanks, might as well change the stats of the fighters and bombers as well… “Betty” didnt carry as much payload as the “Super Fortress” did


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Ok i understand your reasoning.

    Correct that japan only had “heavy tanks” on the drawing board but didnt make any, while england made a heavy tank called the “comet” which saw action in dec 44. For game balance purposes id say japan and england should be restricted in similiar manner, so that Japan doesnt get compromised. Its a good idea to have some nation specific units, but of course this must balance in some other respect, or we face problems down the road. Ill come up with some basic thread about nation specific unit values latter.



  • Yes, I also came up with nation specific units as well, got all crazy with it too, even changing economic IPC values for territories. The biggest differences were the armors, fighters and bombers especially with 4 different levels of bombing damage, actually 5 with atom bomb. However I found it a little awkward if using  6 sided dice. Its more suited if you convert to 12 sided dice instead and incorporate elite leaders, but it will break the game and become way unbalanced.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Yes good as you may know i have been doing the D12 thing for many years, because after all the number of variation is doubled so that the units have unique identities and character, plus you can add many additional units and its easy to convert old pieces into this new system. BY chance the D12 is what Larry will use on his own Advanced axis and allies game next year.So you are on your way on the correct path. I have tried d10 and other % dice and they dont work nearly as well.


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