What is my friend going to do…


  • This weekend I am going to be playing the allies versus my friend who apparently has a new creative axis strategy. He has hinted that I wont know which way he’s going until turn 4. Has anyone heard of this strategy before? Or does anyone have any tips for what I should do in the turns before he shows his hand? Any help would be great because he usually wins…

  • '15

    If it’s not clear which way the Axis are going by turn 4, then the answer is: freaking nowhere.

    Japan has finite options and plenty of time to effectively set them in motion since nobody in the Pacific can do anything to stop them for a while, so if it’s not clear which option(s) they are pursuing by J1, let alone J4, then that’s super great for you as an allied player. He might be doing some kind of Invade USA silliness, so keep an eye out for Japan having lots of Transports in SZ 6 on J3.

    You might also expect him to build a bunch of German bombers, but even then, he should already have all of his German land units on the Russian border by G3 at the latest, giving you a hint. If you see a weird amount of German/Italian navy buildup, and him taking Gibraltar, then the Invade USA silliness chances just increased in likelihood.

    Let us know how it goes, but I suspect he’s just crap-talk messing with you, has no idea what he’s actually talking about, or is going to shoot himself in the foot. Perhaps more than one. Or, maybe he’s a friggen genius and revolutionizes the game. Either way, share 😛

  • 2021 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16

    Banking rather than spending his ipcs? Have seen this suggested as a way to keep the UK wary of Sealion. Downside is that units are not placed and positioned.

  • 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16

    Welcome on board Aivanle.
    As Tesla allready explained it very well, keep your eyes open from the beginning of the game.

  • 2021 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @teslas:

    Let us know how it goes, but I suspect he’s just crap-talk messing with you, has no idea what he’s actually talking about, or is going to shoot himself in the foot. Perhaps more than one. Or, maybe he’s a friggen genius and revolutionizes the game.

    Good analysis.  The three possibilities you’ve outlined all have WWII parallels.  Aivanle’s friend may be trying to bluff and intimidate him into surrender (which is how Hitler got the Sudetenland in 1938), or he may have genuinely developed a brilliant strategy which will utterly crush the opposition (as during Germany’s western campaign of May-June 1940), or he may simply think that he’s devised a brilliant strategy that will actually blow up in his face when he tries to implement it (Mussolini’s botched invasion of Greece being one example).  I think the two most likely possibilities are the bluff-and-bluster hypothesis or the “apparently brilliant but actually defective plan” hypothesis.  If it’s the latter case, then Aivanle may end up with the last laugh.  Union General Joseph Hooker is notorious for having bragged “I have the finest army on the planet […] May God have mercy on General Lee, for I will have none” not long before Lee trounced him at Chancellorsville.


  • I can only think of two viable options that your friend may be referring to:

    1. He’s going to mass German bombers, which is extremely flexible and depending on what the USA does, can be used to kill London or Moscow and perhaps take Egypt as a bonus as well. Your friend may be thinking to just open up with some standard play (except that building a lot of bombers is not very standard, but that aside), then wait and see what your allies are going to do and jump into your weak spot. Yes the axis can play an effective ‘waiting game’, as long as they keep expanding their economy.

    2. He’s thinking G4J4. I better not go too much into the details, but if done properly, this is a very strong strategy for pursuing an ‘economic victory’. The typical path for the axis in this case is to crush Russia from both sides (Japan will ultimately take ~14IPCs/turn from Russia). This requires an extremely well balanced answer from the USA particularly. If they focus too much on Germany, Japan will get to ~100IPCs per turn during the late game and will eventually grab Hawaii -> game over. If, however, they focus on Japan too much, Germany and Italy can take Gibraltar (making it a fortress very hard to retake) and subsequently a lot of African/ME territories from the UK while Russia slowly collapses. Perhaps they even take Brazil… By the time the USA owns Japan, Germany should be able to take Moscow->game over.

    Anyway, these are the two axis strategies I can think of and how their preferred road to victory looks like. It’s up to you as the allies to thwart this.
    If you think your friend is a strong player, take his hints serious but like stated before, he may just be bluffing and not be getting anywhere. I hope you know your friend good enough to know what to expect ;-).

  • '18 '17 '16 '15 Customizer

    @teslas:

    If it’s not clear which way the Axis are going by turn 4, then the answer is: freaking nowhere.

    Hahaha! Bullseye!

  • '15

    Only time I ever waited until turn four to make a big move was when I went for Washington with the Germans, or Operation Cloverfield (someone on the board came up with this name but I can’t remember who).

    Failed once, worked once

  • Sponsor

    It doesn’t mater what he’s planning, the pressure is on him to actually execute it… and that within itself will be his problem without you worrying, because nothing is guaranteed with dice especially if he needs four whole rounds to go according to plan. My guess is he changes his strategy after round two, and if that happens… he won’t even know what he’s doing.

  • 2021 2020 '19 '18 '17

    @Aivanle:

    This weekend I am going to be playing the allies versus my friend who apparently has a new creative axis strategy. He has hinted that I wont know which way he’s going until turn 4. Has anyone heard of this strategy before? Or does anyone have any tips for what I should do in the turns before he shows his hand? Any help would be great because he usually wins…

    My recommendation is, that you inform him that in response to his ominous threats, you have joined a community of highly experienced and very knowledgeable A&A experts whose sharp analytical minds will defuse even the most devious plan he might come up with.
    Welcome to the boards!  😄

  • 2021 2020 '18 '17 '16 '15 TripleA

    I can’t guess exactly what he is going to do, but as others have alluded to, the reality is that you’ll have a good idea by the time he makes his 3rd turn purchases.

    Japan’s ability to strike anywhere in a surprise way is usually linked to a huge naval build-up next to a harbour. So watch out for that.

    Another possibility is some kind of invasion of the mid-east through Turkey, which might be paired with attacks on other neutrals. The “neutral strategy” generally only works if it’s by surprise, so he might be trying that. Look out for a strong build-up after turn 3 near neutrals.

    And if it hasn’t been said yet, be sure to come back and tell us what your friend does!


  • Most supprise moves are not as good as the regular move, this is why it is a supprise. I always take great care to check out any possible suprises. You should always check what happens if my opponent buys all air/subs/rs/tanks and what happens if my opponent just goes for one of my capitols/key terretories with everything he has.

    If you always do this, and try to build optimally for combat, the supprise moves have very little effect (when this is done correctly). Example as a suggestes supprise move in the revised forum:
    Germany buys nothing on G1, all tanks on G2 and just goes for moscow.
    Answer:
    This plan is plainly worse than germany buying all inf/art on G1 and all tanks on G2. The russian should therefor do as he always does and maximize his fighting power by buying infs supplied by tanks and possibly the third fighter.

    In this case as in most cases, these wild plans depends on buying faster moving units with less bang for the buck. It depends on the opponent not buing enough volume to be able to withstand it. Therefore you can usually beat these plans by playing conservativly and focusing on putting as much volume and fightingstrength in the field, in areas you need to hold.


  • @Kreuzfeld:

    Most supprise moves are not as good as the regular move, this is why it is a supprise. I always take great care to check out any possible suprises. You should always check what happens if my opponent buys all air/subs/rs/tanks and what happens if my opponent just goes for one of my capitols/key terretories with everything he has(…)

    I don’t agree with that, kreuzfeld :lol:.
    A surprise move can be much more devastating than regular moves. That’s the very nature of a surprise. But ofc it takes some vision and/or calculation to test the waters (because some conditions must be met to consider setting one up).
    Germany can even set up a surprise without risk; not spring the trap if they deem the allied positions too good and spring it if the allies are indeed out position.

    Example: Germany looks like going for Moscow and marches all the way into Stalingrad, keeping the Russians honest in Moscow. As Germany, I could be planning to take Calcutta with this very army, allowing Japan to focus much more on their naval power. Ofc there are certain conditions that must be met before setting up such a surprise move should be considered, but if you can see what the enemy can do to you ~5 turns ahead, you’ll be able to set up surprises that’ll kill (given an opportunity, ofc).
    By the way, knowing the (allied) playstyle of some of my opponents IRL, I could say to them about this particular example that they won’t know what I am doing for the first 9 turns because I know they will think I’m coming for Moscow and will be surprised by my Germany taking Calcutta while Japan grabs Hawaii to achieve victory in the Pac… All because I know them to focus a little too much on Germany with the USA (a little, but not a lot).

    So yes, the possibility that the axis crush the allies after saying “you won’t know what I’m doing till turn 4” can either be a sign that your opponent (thinks he) can surprise you as much as him being a fool ;-). Either case, better plan for the worst: that he is not a fool (and knowing your opponent goes a long way here).


  • @ItIsILeClerc:

    @Kreuzfeld:

    Most supprise moves are not as good as the regular move, this is why it is a supprise. I always take great care to check out any possible suprises. You should always check what happens if my opponent buys all air/subs/rs/tanks and what happens if my opponent just goes for one of my capitols/key terretories with everything he has(…)

    I don’t agree with that, kreuzfeld :lol:.
    A surprise move can be much more devastating than regular moves. That’s the very nature of a surprise. But ofc it takes some vision and/or calculation to test the waters (because some conditions must be met to consider setting one up).
    Germany can even set up a surprise without risk; not spring the trap if they deem the allied positions too good and spring it if the allies are indeed out position.

    Example: Germany looks like going for Moscow and marches all the way into Stalingrad, keeping the Russians honest in Moscow. As Germany, I could be planning to take Calcutta with this very army, allowing Japan to focus much more on their naval power. Ofc there are certain conditions that must be met before setting up such a surprise move should be considered, but if you can see what the enemy can do to you ~5 turns ahead, you’ll be able to set up surprises that’ll kill (given an opportunity, ofc).
    By the way, knowing the (allied) playstyle of some of my opponents IRL, I could say to them about this particular example that they won’t know what I am doing for the first 9 turns because I know they will think I’m coming for Moscow and will be surprised by my Germany taking Calcutta while Japan grabs Hawaii to achieve victory in the Pac… All because I know them to focus a little too much on Germany with the USA (a little, but not a lot).

    So yes, the possibility that the axis crush the allies after saying “you won’t know what I’m doing till turn 4” can either be a sign that your opponent (thinks he) can surprise you as much as him being a fool ;-). Either case, better plan for the worst: that he is not a fool (and knowing your opponent goes a long way here).

    I guess this really depends on playingstyle. My group have had a setup where we can keep the game and play one game once a week until we are done. This allowes us alot of time to think it through before every move.

    In my games we start counting what happens if germany goes with their entire army to india, china or egypt when it is in ukraine. This means that we don’t move out too much with the indian army, conserve its strength and keep on builing landunits alot longer than I suspect other people do.

    The best defence against most crazy plans is to build and maintain a strong army with huge volumes that can react to these kinds of moves. Examples include: builing a huge us surface fleet, at least enough to deadzone hawaii and be able to retake it. Adding as much volume to the indian army as possible, as much infantry as possible, you can get the planes from europe if you need them. Building a strong force in egypt. Maintaining a huge atlantic fleet off gibraltar and threatening invasions. Always having enough in UK (or close enough to it) to always be able to prevent a sealion after turn 4. Retreating the russian army from moscow if you know you are going to lose it (and will not kill enough to justify staying)


  • Yeah I probably gave it too much words, I’m sorry :-D.
    I just should have said that the surprise moves I made so far (in the past), were all killing blows for my opponent, where a more standard move would probably have lost me the game.

    Given, my opponents were not aware (and thus unprepared) of the possibility of each particular trick and knowing they are mighty opponents indeed (well for my skill level anyway), they will probably not be tricked by the same surprise again.

  • '15

    Update?

  • '15

    He was so surprised on G4 that he had to be rushed to the hospital from the resulting stroke.

    We’ll never get an update, and this strategy, so effective it actually kills your opponent, will remain forbidden knowledge to all but a few.

  • '15

    Teslas, you may be right!

  • 2021 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @teslas:

    He was so surprised on G4 that he had to be rushed to the hospital from the resulting stroke.

    We’ll never get an update, and this strategy, so effective it actually kills your opponent, will remain forbidden knowledge to all but a few.

    This sounds like similar technology to the lethal “Funniest Joke in the World” which was (according to Monty Python) weaponized by the British Army and used against the Germans in WWII.


  • It must have been so powerful that the original poster was destroyed, both figuratively and literally.  I think that we should all band together to outlaw this move that henceforth be called the “Aivanle 4 Maneuver”.  It is so unspeakably horrible that we shouldn’t even discuss the strategy.

  • '15

    Best to shorten it to “The A4M”, then. Alright.

    Could we please have a moderator lock this thread? Preferably delete it?

  • 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16

    @teslas:

    Best to shorten it to “The A4M”, then. Alright.

    Could we please have a moderator lock this thread? Preferably delete it?

    Why should it be locked or deleted tesla?
    Even though the initial poster may not come back,
    it still could be used as a platform.
    Good and nice posts were made.

    It is interesting to know that a few people belief that after Turn 4, the possibility is gone to make any kind of suprise attack.
    I think there is still room to discuss this.

    Any up?

  • '15

    @aequitas:

    Why should it be locked or deleted tesla?

    For fear it might be used for nefarious or evil purposes, you madman. Some information is best left unknown, The A4M included.

    You tinker with your own fate, sir, and the fates of the innocents whose lives you might destroy, and I shall have none of it!

  • '15

    I’m only commenting in this thread because some men want to watch the world burn.


  • Sorry its taken me so long to respond. Lol. He did end up beating me although now that ive read the rules and blog closer im almost certain that he should not have been able to build a major in Kiangsu, so his play doesn’t really work. Basically his strategy was to keep the us out of the war as long as possible. With Germany did the usual opening and then pushed into Russia looking to hit Moscow turn 7. With Italy he also coordinated to hit Cairo on turn 7. With Japan he built a minor then a major in  Kiangsu then pushed as many tanks mechs and planes as he could through up to Moscow which he would also hit turn 7. On J1 he built a carrier, and then for the next few turns his starting naval units seemed to be moving towards India. To me it had seemed like his Japan was doing better than his Europe so as America I devoted most of my resources to the Pacific spending 17 IPCs more than him on the pacific board until turn four. When his huge Japanese fleet sailed right past India and hit Cairo on turn 7.

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