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Fan Edit 1940 Map Re-Painted


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @lthaut:

    How it works is that as the game progresses the Axis have to be in control of less and less territories to win and if they lose too much the Allies win.

    I’m having trouble understanding this.  The part that says “as the game progresses the Axis have to be in control of less and less territories to win” seems to imply that the more territories the Axis lose the easier it becomes for them to win.  The part that says “if they lose too much the Allies win” seems to imply the opposite.  Is it one or the other?  Or is it something completely different that I’m not grasping?


  • 2018 2017 2016 2015 Customizer

    @CWO:

    I’m having trouble understanding this.  The part that says “as the game progresses the Axis have to be in control of less and less territories to win” seems to imply that the more territories the Axis lose the easier it becomes for them to win.  The part that says “if they lose too much the Allies win” seems to imply the opposite.  Is it one or the other?  Or is it something completely different that I’m not grasping?

    It took me a second take too, so correct me if I am wrong here Ithaut…

    To win early in the game the Axis have to have a huge number of victory points because this is where they will have the most territory. Theory being to make them need to do very well to achieve victory when they are at their most powerful.

    To win late in the game, the Axis must successfully hold some level of territory even though they are less powerful and being crunched. Sort of a proportional with greater power - greater success needed and with lesser power - less success needed. But if the Axis do not hold enough territory they lose.

    I understand it that way, but this presupposes two things: (1) the Allies will unavoidably grow larger and more powerful and beat back the Axis and (2) that the Allies would acquiesce to Axis demands or quit the war when they clearly are going to be cleaning their clocks.

    Unless you script the game, (1) cannot be guaranteed. And I do believe that (2) is patently inaccurate.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @LHoffman:

    And I do believe that (2) is patently inaccurate.

    Agreed.  And the Allied senior leadership – in the closing couple of years of the war, if not earlier – understood clearly that they would have to fight the war to the bitter end.  I think it was Eisenhower who said (if I recall the quote correctly), that the Axis powers were not going to jump into the abyss on their own…that they would have to be pushed into it.  This was a frank assessment of the opponents the Allies were fighting, and also a recognition of the fact that the Allies themselves had guaranteed this outcome by adopting a policy of unconditional surrender.  The idea that the Allies would quit the war when they were on the brink of complete victory is simply unimaginable.



  • You are correct LHoffman that it goes along the lines of greater power- greater success and the opposite with lesser power. The two things that I had in mind for this was 1st a sort of prediction to that economic threshold that at a certain point you’ll more than likely win if you have enough IPC and the 2nd was the question of what is an Axis win at which in this case of the VP’s (also how that Struggle board game works) is a competition against the real life progress. Ultimately I think that kind of goes in line with this board game as it’s exciting to see if you can do better than what happened in real life despite just being an abstract game. I’ll definitely have to check out that other thread and catch up to speed.

    To answer some of the what if’s I believe an over time could work for this. Say if a player wins and it seems like there is still a chance for a rebuttal then once during the game over time can be called that lasts for 4 turns and win conditions checked after the 4 turns. If a stalemate is reintroduced at the end of the over time then game continues but next win condition that is met is a for sure win. Assuming that a total game can be 15 turns at 6 months taking it up to 1947.

    It’s not so much that the Axis win by holding victory conditions and the Allies surrender, it’s more of a win in terms that they were more successful in real life which draws out the war. Hope that answers some things let me know if I missed anything. It’ll definitely be interesting to see what sort of winning conditions HBG comes out with once their 1936 game is available.



  • I should add as an example that say Summer of 1943 is listed as 33-59, means that if the axis have 33 VPs or less then they lose as this represents a significant allied push but if the axis hit 59 or more VPs then they win. The game already kind of starts with this in mind I think as the axis start out with more point valued units but less territory with the opposite for the allies. Another variable strategy to winning can also be grabbing enough VP territory early and if you can hold onto it then you win as the axis player. Also an example of competing victory points can be seen in the pacific as a lot of the islands are worth points around Japans planned defense parameter but the Dutch East Indies are not worth points so it’s a choice to go for NO’s that can help later or go for a VP island campaign.


  • 2018 2017 2016 2015 Customizer

    @lthaut:

    Also an example of competing victory points can be seen in the pacific as a lot of the islands are worth points around Japans planned defense parameter but the Dutch East Indies are not worth points so it’s a choice to go for NO’s that can help later or go for a VP island campaign.

    I understand the competing strategic needs, but what is your general rationale for assigning victory points to a territory? Is is population, possession of strategic resources, historical and cultural significance, political influence…?



  • I see, while for the most part it’s a direct adaptation from the other board game, it falls more into the historical and political influence based around campaigns and their objectives both axis and allied. I’ve only made minimal changes to redistribution with incentives in mind pertaining to strategies that might be used.

    Small points of note to the rational of these changes/non-changes are: Sicily, Vyborg, Ceylon, and Crete worth a point to get them into the game and their historical importance; politically Szechwan 1 point representing the unofficial Nationalist capital and Jehol as the demilitarized zone; Russia broken up to be a fair trade between north, center, and south group (Caucasus worth most points, center for capital and railroad network, north because I feel that’s a tough nut to crack if you take it as the axis); Strict neutrals sometimes being a point if the axis feel lucky or desperate; Amur worth a point for the border wars and incentive to possibly attack the USSR.

    Other notes in mind: Normandy not worth points but Holland being 1 point and 3 ICP will probably railroad a more built up defense (while not actually in Holland it’s incentive payoff for invading Calais instead of Normandy). Hong Kong not worth VP’s but worth 3 IPC and possible British base plus port makes it important. Cairo worth only 1 VP because of the intercept with NO’s, canal, and bases. Eastern America not worth anything because I didn’t want to waste VP’s there and I don’t think the Germans went further than long range bomber design concepts to extend out that far.



  • Here’s a list of the point break down that is subject to change upon further suggestions. Currently I’m customizing various medal png photos for better resolution and selection. Originally I had Southern France, Northern Italy, Western Germany, and Kiangsu given 2 VP’s so that each country would have a 2nd level medal but these are areas that could definitely be redistributed.

    3 VP: Germany, United Kingdom, Russia, Caucasus, japan, western United States, southern Italy, France

    2 VP: Southern France, western Germany, northern Italy, Ukraine, Volgograd, Novgorod, Novosibirsk, Iraq, Persia, India, Kiangsu, Philippines, new south wales, Hawaii

    1 VP: Scotland, Holland, Norway, Sweden, Baltic states, Poland, Vyborg, greater southern Germany, Hungary, Romania, western Ukraine, Smolensk, Rostov, Vologda, Spain, Gibraltar, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Tobruk, Alexandria, Egypt, Sicily, Greece, Crete, Turkey, west India, Ceylon, Szechwan, Burma, Jehol, Malaya, amur, Okinawa, Iwo Jima, Marianas, Marshall Islands, Coroline Islands, Gilbert Islands, New Guinea, New Britain, Solomon Islands, New Hebrides, Victoria, Fiji, Samoa, Midway, Aleutian Islands

    As for how many are needed for a win at a current year I’ll have to go through and mark historical VP then decide the number that goes in both directions that would be considered doing significantly better historically.



  • Something interesting that was pointed out to me by a Hearts of Iron forum member was that an alternative win condition can be a definite end date in the game at which point there’s varying degrees of a win for both sides. The PC game Combat Mission has a pretty neat VP breakdown that may or may not be prevalent to this.

    < 1.25 to 1 - draw
    < 1.75 to 1 - minor victory
    < 2.50 to 1 - tactical victory
    < 5.00 to 1 - major victory

    5.00 to 1 - total victory


  • 2018 2017 2016 2015 Customizer

    What about making the Victory point system Axis-centric? Since the premise of your design revolves around how many points the Axis have at a given moment, there is no need for the Allies to track how many points they have. All they need to know is how many the Axis have and how they can best decrease that number.

    Unless this is already your intent. But in this system you could assign victory points to places like the US. They serve only as a motivator for the Axis and will not count against the Axis if they don’t have them.



  • Update: Been pretty busy with University work but almost finished with the final version of the map. I ran into a multitude of problems with the medals and learned more than I ever actually wanted to about Photoshop and military awards. Alternatives also failed as I found the limits of Photoshop and the purpose Illustrator serves if I had the program. I eventually went back to the Close Combat medals since they had uniform lighting and resolutions. I don’t think I’ll be able to find a home for any flash art though so chances are I’m scaling back on the scope of the project.

    After the maps out I’ll re-investigate the possibility of a full rules conversion I plan to use and that others might find interesting. Through limited play-testing a couple points of note from changing the movement mechanics was a prolonged battle for the Atlantic and Germany being able to brush the outskirts of Moscow in 1941.



  • Well this is unfortunate I had to remove the link due to a reply by Wizards of the Coast. I’m going to try to get a more in depth reply from them other than a “we’re unable to grant you permission to use our intellectual property in the manner you have requested”. It’s possible it may have just been over a single issue.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @lthaut:

    Well this is unfortunate I had to remove the link due to a reply by Wizards of the Coast. I’m going to try to get a more in depth reply from them other than a “we’re unable to grant you permission to use our intellectual property in the manner you have requested”. It’s possible it may have just been over a single issue.

    It may not have been over any one specific issue.  Owners of copyrighted material arguably have an obligation to defend their property, even against small-scale, non-commercial, non-profit use by a single individual, because doing so puts them in a better position to defend their property in court against potential large-scale, commercial piracy by another party.  That’s why, for example, a company that owns the rights to a famous animated character might issue a cease-and-desist letter against a daycare centre that’s using their character without permisssion: it’s not because the company has anything against daycare centres, it’s because the company actually wants to protect itself against, let’s say, the possibility that a pirate might sell thousands of unauthorized T-shirts decorated with that particular character.  Demonstrating to the courts that the company has a record of defending its intellectual property, even in inoccuous-looking cases, helps the company argue its case against any serious violators who try to rip it off for profit.  It’s a bit like the concept of territorial sovereignty: if Nation X, which considers disputed Island Y and its surrounding waters to be part of its territory, is unable or unwilling to defend its sovereignty claim against vessels from Foreign Power Z who intrude into those waters to challenge the claim, it puts Foreign Power Z in the position of arguing that Nation X has renounced its claim to Island Y and that Foreign Power Z (which also claims Island Y) is free to take control of it.



  • Yea I see the logic behind that. I was hoping for an environment like some video game companies have with mods, since the fans are essentially the only thing that keep the game alive. Oh well at least Fall Out 4 comes out soon  :-D. With encouraged mod support. I might pop in here every now and then to post pictures of my personal use custom map with painted units. Might inspire someone else to do something cool  :mrgreen:.

    I found a nice painting guide by Flames of War that’s pretty helpful. Not so sure how their own Vallejo color shades will turn out though.



  • I can see wizards of the coast having a blanket statement rejecting all requests to modify material, after all… they probaly deal with it alot with their D&D department than with Avilon Hill products.


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