G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions)


  • 2020 2019 2018

    Update to 2.646

    Changed Tacs hitting Subs to “1 in 12” and allow them to stack again when “Planes Target Naval” is activated. They also hit Ships the same way now.

    Primarily to help Japan with mid to late game Sub spam. Also help the Allies in the Atlantic, although this doesn’t really seem to be necessary. May still be an issue (Sub spam) but I’ve yet to see it prevent a win. “Attack0 Cost5” Bombers are another concern, but once again, I’ve yet to see them prevent a win and there are Options available to counter them if needed.

    Biggest concern is Tacs ganging up on solo BBs, CAs and CVs. However, it does represent Dive Bombers and ASW planes well and while not ideal, subs can still be used as hit soakers.
    Basically the “Big Boys” shouldn’t be sailing without support, which is an okay thing imo and they still get to shoot back : ) Well not the CVs…but…

    Of course this is only an Option 🙂 Lots of ways to play 🙂

    At any rate…that be the update
    heh heh


  • 2020 2019 2018

    Updated to 2.647

    Change Tactical Bomber to hit at 2 in 12 when “Planes Target Naval” activated. Defends at 1 in 12. Does not stack against Subs and Ships. Fighters attack and defend at 1 in 12 against Ships. They do not stack.

    Decided since Subs start to increase quite a bit mid to late game, you’d be better off to have the Tac hit at 1 in 6 against multiple targets than being able to stack at 1 in 12.

    Ftr is a bit weaker. Ftr and Tac are now 23.6% vs the 25% that they were before when Targeting Ships, so not a big difference. Also emphasizes the Tac over the Ftr, which is what is wanted and keeps things a little more uniform with the CA/BB being the only 10 sided die now.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017

    @barnee said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):

    {snip}
    … with the CA/BB being the only 10 sided die now.

    I know I missed most of this conversation, so pardon me for asking you to repeat yourself, but… why are the CAs and BBs using d10s instead of d12s?

    -Midnight_Reaper


  • 2020 2019 2018

    @Midnight_Reaper

    They only use the 10 sided die for their AA shots. 1 Rd of AA same as land AA. BB gets 1 shot at 1 in 10 and CA gets 2 shots at 1 in 10 with no more than 1 shot per plane same as land AA. They use D6 for regular combat as all units do.

    Had to tweak the AA a little as 1 in 6 was too powerful.

    Ahh… misunderstood your question. Wanted the planes to have a slight advantage over the AA fire. So a Tac Hits at 2 in 12 and the ftr at 1 in 12 giving a 23.6% chance of 1 hit vs 2 shots from a CA which is a 19% chance of a hit. If I went 2 "1 in 12 " for the CA it would have 16% chance of 1 hit if their were 2 planes attacking and the BB only 8.3 %. That was a little weaker than desired.

    If a Ftr and Tac are paired up they each get a shot at the ship. If there was just 2 Ftrs or Tacs then they’d only get the 1 shot.


  • 2020 2019 2018

    Updated to 2.650 Adds:

    16)Movel Victory Conditions Courtesy of taamvan. The Axis need “9” of the following after round 10 for victory:
    Hold Berlin=Control Germany
    Hold Warsaw=Control Poland
    Hold Rome=Control Southern Italy
    Hold Paris=Control France
    Hold Toykyo=Control Japan
    Hold Shanghai=Control Kiangsu
    Seize the Caucasus=Control
    Control North Africa=Morocco:Algeria:Tunisia:Libya:Tobruk:Alexandria:Egypt
    Control All of Balkans=Crete:Yugoslavia:Greece:Bulgaria:Slovakia Hungary:Albania:Romania
    Control of Philippines
    Control of the Burma Road=India:Burma:Yunnan:Szechwan
    Control of “5” Allied Island Territories in the Pacific=New Britain:Solomon Islands:New Guinea:Philippines:Line Islands:Guam:Wake Island:Aleutian Islands:Johnston Island:Hawaiian Islands:Midway:Fiji:Ceylon:Samoa:Gilbert Islands:Celebes:Java:Dutch New Guinea:Sumatra:New Hebrides
    Seize all of China=Control of Manchuria:Hainan:Shensi:Yunnan:Szechwan:Suiyuyan:Kweichow:Hunan:Hopei:Shantung:Kwangsi:Kiangsu:Kiangsi:Jehol:Chahar:Anhwe:Tsinghai:Kansu
    Seize Novgorod=Control
    Seize Stalingrad=Control Volgograd
    Seize Persia and Iraq=Control Iraq:Northwest Persia:Persia:Eastern Persia

    Victory Notification will activate at beginning of Germans round 11 purchase.

    Activates via “Map Options”

    @taamvan Is this correct ?


  • 2018 Customizer

    @barnee

    Is there a running summary or google doc of these rules changes somewhere, for someone that wants to run this setup on a physical board?


  • 2020 2019 2018

    @vodot
    Idk you would need to ask taamvan



  • How about making separate blue molds for France, instead of say, using Soviet Union (Russian) pieces painted blue? The regular color for A&A G40 for France? I think that it’s rather silly that ANZAC has its own molds and everyone else has updated sculpts, but not France. France gets knocked out, but later on, after liberation, she becomes a pain in the neck to Germany and Italy.

    https://www.historicalboardgaming.com/France_c_209-2.html
    Like these?


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @Patchman123 said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):

    How about making separate blue molds for France, instead of say, using Soviet Union (Russian) pieces painted blue? The regular color for A&A G40 for France? I think that it’s rather silly that ANZAC has its own molds and everyone else has updated sculpts, but not France. France gets knocked out, but later on, after liberation, she becomes a pain in the neck to Germany and Italy.

    When the 2nd edition of Europe 1940 / Pacific 1940 came out, I was happy about the various new sculpts they included (including the full distinct ANZAC sculpt set) and disappointed that France’s non-infantry units continued to be blue versions of the Soviet set…but I guess that the single positive aspect of France being short-changed in both the 1st and 2nd editions is that it creates room for a nice sculpt upgrade in a hypothetical future 3rd edition: a full distinct French sculpt set. France is the last player nation left in Global 1940 which has such a large deficit of nationally-distinct OOB sculpts, and it would be nice for that gap to be filled. Global 1940 2nd edition has three minor gaps involving other nations, and it would be nice for them to be filled too in a future 3rd edition, but for the moment the 1941 game provides the means to do so: it has a distinct British naval transport, a distinct Soviet aircraft carrier, and it has an American P-40 Warhawk fighter which can serve as China’s Flying Tiger unit. An interesting question would be what kind of significant sculpt upgrade in a hypothetical Pacific 1940 3rd edition could be provided to balance the significant sculpt upgrade which a full French set would be in a hypothetical Europe 1940 3rd edition? I can’t think of any obvious single major upgrade, but perhaps several small ones would do just as well – for example, filling the minor gaps I’ve already mentioned, plus giving China a distinct artillery piece, plus perhaps reviving the concepts from the original Pacific game to give the US a distinctly-coloured Marine unit.


  • 2019 '15 '14

    That would be cool. I’d buy in for sure. It would be a pretty legit offering if it gave the US those warhawks in the Europe set, and the lightnings in the Pacific set. That way we’d get a bunch of warhawks and when you combine the boards you’d have a nice substitution at the ready for the Flying tiger in G40. I’d probably get more excited about seeing some of the 1941 scultps in a 3rd edition than France, but it would be nice for completion. Especially if the manual provided some extra options to expand the game, and perhaps put a new spin on it maybe with marines or vichy stuff. I think a second set up for the Global Board with an alternative start date would be cool and well received. Like they did for AA50

    What would also be nice some map corrections for the roundels on Western Canada and Sierra Leon, if doing a new reprint.



  • @baron-Münchhausen Does a definite document with these interesting changes exist so that it could be applied to the G40 board version?


  • 2020 2019 2018

    @MGregersen

    Hi Welcome to the site 🙂

    Not sure which Baron document you mean. A lot of the changes are available on triplea in “Global 40 House Rules”. It’s a conglomeration of a lot of the ideas on this thread for use in the digital triple a game. It can be found here:

    https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/category/28/triplea-support



  • @barnee

    Thank you 🙂

    Ah, I see. Just found your redesign of different unit statistics interesting and wondered if there was an “easy” way of implementing changes to the A&A G40 board version. It’s hard in this thread to to tell which were changes and which were changes to changes 🙂 And e.g. somewhere Baron wrote “Also, cheaper boats will increase the pressure on Axis much earlier in game.” I just can’t figure out if this means the game will break if you implement the changes written before that without doing anything else.

    Btw, awesome work from everyone of you for even taking on the task of looking at changes for gameplay like this.


  • 2020 2019 2018

    @MGregersen
    heh heh yea Baron was balls to the wall until he got a girlfriend 🙂

    @Black_Elk pretty knowledgeable about this stuff too. I’ll tyr and put rules in a doc if you don’t wanna check it on triplea. Been thinking of doing it

    Peace


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    @barnee said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):

    @MGregersen
    heh heh yea Baron was balls to the wall until he got a girlfriend 🙂

    Ya the invisible man now ! Lol


  • 2020 2019 2018

    @SS-GEN
    lucky fckr 🙂 lol



  • @barnee

    Thank you for taking the time. Easily found it in Triple A. However, does the rules change the general G40 setup and if so, how can you see what changes?


  • 2017 '16

    @MGregersen said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):

    @baron-Münchhausen Does a definite document with these interesting changes exist so that it could be applied to the G40 board version?

    Hi everyone!
    I’m pretty busy during lock down.

    Just a few minutes to say hello.
    Especially to a new member, Mr Gregersen.

    I’ve got a lot of various of Word doc for different games and roster. But no definite. The most useful way to find what suit your game is to pick a few House rule from Barney’s TripleA development. And see what you feel working.

    IMO, there is so much fun to tweak a few things to see if it improves the flow of the game according to your taste and of your friends.

    For my parts, I like boats and naval battle a lot. So I tend to increase ships building with lower cost.
    But to what extend can you play while affecting balance somehow.

    Barney is the one which play test the beast more intensively. He can surely give a bit of advice about what worth a try.

    If you want some Word file to tweak with I can share one.

    Have fun and take care all of you.
    There is a nasty virus outside, be safe everyone.

    Baron


  • 2017 '16

    Another aspect I forgot to mention,
    is that a few rules on Sub warfare with DD and aircrafts can be implemented quite differently between board game and TripleA due to the programming effort required to derailed from OOB rules mechanism.

    In a few cases, you can get similar results with less combat steps.


  • 2020 2019 2018

    @MGregersen

    nah no unit setup change other than certain units have different capabilities. The actual placement stays the same. I usually play “Option Redesign” with Canada. It adds a whole bunch of options at once.

    I been working on oztea’s 1939 lately. Gonna get back to house rules and clean some stuff up before too much longer. Hopefully 🙂

    Hi @baron-Münchhausen
    Glad to see you are doing well. Be safe brother

    Peace Out



  • @baron-Münchhausen @barnee

    Thank you for the warm welcome 🙂 We don’t play the game too often, so it’s really a pleasure to lend some of the knowledge you guys spit out to make for a better game instead of having to figure it all out yourself.

    @baron-Münchhausen
    So regards to no setup changes, is the following no longer relevant?

    Of course, any OOB setup will need adjustments because of much cheaper aircraft and Carrier.
    Conversion rating is 2 OOB Full Carrier A12 D20 C72 –-> 3 Full Carriers A15 D24 C78 minus 1 Fighter : A13 D21 C71.
    2 OOB Fighters A3 D4 C10 (A6 D8 C20) —> 3 Fighters A2 D3 C7 (A6 D9 C21)
    2 Tactical Bombers A3-4 D3 C11 (A6 D6 C22) —> 3 TacBs A3 D2 C8 (A9 D6 C24)
    2 Strategic Bombers A4 D1 C12 (A8 D2 C24) —> 2 StBs A0 D0 C5 & 2 TcBs A3 D2 C8 (A6 D4 C26)
    2 Destroyers A2 D2 C8 (A4 D4 C16) —> 3 Destroyers A1 D1 C5 (A3 D3 C15)
    2 Cruisers A3 D3 C12 (A6 D6 C24) —> 3 Cruisers A3 D3 C8 (A9 D9 C24)
    Also, cheaper warships will increase the pressure on Axis much earlier in game.
    Submarines are still potent offensive units with pretty good elusive capacity with all special rules.

    I very much like your ideas of having cheaper fleet. We play with Siredblood’s Bloodbath Ruleset, which have some interesting gameplay stuff and Victory Condition design along with his custom map, but it’s still based on OOP unit statistics and generic rules (scramble, convoy, SBR, etc.), which I - like you, I suppose - feel need something done about them to make for better (yet not too complicated) gameplay. The ruleset limits the game to 8-10 rounds, which works very well for board game days, but also limits especially Allied late game playability. Hence, if navy is cheaper my thought is that you could see earlier action. Do you see this in your games?

    I have read through the Triple A “Global 40 House Rules” and there is some very interesting stuff there across the board. Though, the roster you presented (where I quoted from) is just so intriguing - can it be implemented as you have written it in your latest post? (p. 64) Maybe that is the sort of document I am looking for 🙂

    Currently reading through threads on convoy disruption. Again, I think you come up with some amazing proposals to make convoy rules an actual strategic plan and not just something that happens because X ship ended up in Y seazone after a battle (and everybody forgets to roll out anyway 🙂 ). Your suggestions of having the choice of attack or convoy + subs on station caught me. Think about a game where Germany does NOT destroy the UK fleets but instead starve their convoys so India and Africa become thin. That is something! Do you have any final conclusion on this?

    https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/25268/convoy-disruption-for-1942-2-g40-submarine-economic-warfare/36?page=2

    Sorry for asking this much, I am just inspired by the work both of you have done to enhance the game and want in on the experience 🙂

    Take care in these times and thanks for taking the time, appriciate it!


  • 2020 2019 2018

    @MGregersen

    No worries ask away 🙂 The biggest thing I noticed what came out of all the ideas from multiple people and baron’s number crunching was elks A0C5 strat bomber and the A1D1C5 DD. Also the subs can’t be blocked. You add the “convoy” zones and it makes for an interestingt “Battle of the Atlantic”. Which, now that I remember, the TacBmbr has ASW capability to hunt subs as well. I like to stick them on a “Escort CV” with a DD.

    Anyway, what I found was Germany could effectively prolong the SS operations to turn 5 at least. This takes away from USSR attack, but forces UK and USA to put a lot of resources into ASW.

    SBR is kinda fun because you really want escort. It’s been a long time since I played a game and I’m basically a low/intermediate type player, so there very well could be a fatal flaw to it all. That’s why Elk’s input was so cool because he’s such a good player.

    Anyway, you just have to play it out and see what happens. It’ll take a while to find it’s weak points most likely and there are enough other options to counter those that it would take some time.

    Basically this just gives people the option of trying a pile of house rules on triplea. Most people would just talk about them but never try them.


  • 2017 '16

    @MGregersen

    Hi, I played and tested a few things on AA50 1941 and 1942 2nd Ed.
    One issue with cheaper warships and aircrafts is that Allies can build up at a faster rate than Axis.
    Increasing the number of initial units on the setup were to compensate for the initial lost to help Axis stay ahead in the first game rounds.

    If you want to give a try without tweaking setup, then assign Axis to the best players.
    And play with the house rules.

    Another issue with smaller games compared to G40, is the StB A0 C5 lack of offensive capacities in regular combat.
    Lowering aircraft attack/defense in addition, then Axis lack of initial punch becomes obvious.

    At least, for each StBomber you should provide an additional TcBomber (and 2 per Axis Strat bombers) for purpose of regular combat support.
    So, it mitigates the impact of aircraft with less punch in first rounds, on Axis side.

    If you need an altered setup for G40, I might find one already written (in my personnal notes) to fit into the above requirements.

    Take care everyones,

    Baron


  • 2017 '16

    @MGregersen

    These adjustments are still working for G40, with exception of Japan. At most, I would add a full Carrier (Fg and TcBs) and 2 additional TcBs. In IJN SZ.

    The Convoy rule helps delay Allies built up and IPCs losses is balanced also by cheaper warships and aircrafts.
    The Subwarefare work well in combination with C5 A1 D1 Destroyer.



  • @barnee

    Definitely some Atlantic stuff that doesn’t work optimally in OOP that you adress nicely here.
    And I think you’re right - sometimes the hardest challange is to get your group to take in a new house rule and see where it takes the game instead of wanting to stick to the old guns 🙂 Just glad you guys have laid the work for different things to try.

    @baron-Münchhausen

    Good points about the navy. If you have a document of an altered setup (and maybe altered OOB unit stats), I would love if you would share!
    E-mail: mathias.b.gregersen@gmail.com

    Thank you both for an interesting exchange.


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