Best unit choice for "Operation Barbarossa" for Germany



  • I have a quick question what units do you purchase for driving to moscow with the germans is it like mostly tanks and mech. infantry, or infantry and artillery? (Of course you need to buy aircraft)


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016

    Still new to 1940 but I’ll try a response ….

    Inf & Art first wherever you are going.

    If going the northern route, a Baltic fleet moves these to Leningrad and easily reinforces that front with more of the same each turn from Germany.

    But if you are taking the southern route still Inf & Art first, followed up by Armour and MI, given their movement advantage, allowing them to catch up with the front line. Armour & MI also allow exploitation of any Italian “can openers”, which are a little easier to get going in the south as 1 space closer to Italy.

    The choice between northern or southern route depends on where R deploys its units. There are advantages to both:

    • North - Use of the Baltic to move units forward, inf from E Germany to Moscow being 4 moves this way vs 5 moves going South.
    • South - Slightly easier to get Italian can openers going. Also the possibility of two factories for capture (both being 1 move closer to Moscow than the Leningrad factory) and faster pressure into the middle east via the Caucasus, but these could prove distractions from the direct route to Moscow.

    I look forward to learning from other replies.


  • 2015

    This is not an easy question, because it depends on a multi-turn strategy that does not exist in a vacuum from distractions or opportunities of the game. You also explicitly said “driving” there. With that in mind, here’s an ultra-conservative direct push towards Moscow.

    It is exceptionally useful to have some Italian fast units come eastward with you to take empty territories or territories with only one Russian in them so your planes can land on your main stack as it marches east.

    A careful Russian player will punish you for mistakes by killing pieces of your invasion force if you split it up. Take extreme care to not let him outmaneuver you like that, as it’s usually the first dozen nails in the coffin all at once for Germany.

    G1:
    This is complex. Let’s assume no G1 Barbarosa, which is not a “standard” tactic. If you want to do a Sea Lion feint, then you can buy a navy here, or spend nothing at all. If you instead build a bunch of land units, then UK can do whatever it wants on its turn and you’re telegraphing your intentions to everyone. Generally, I’d suggest getting some navy or to save your 30. (The navy can be somewhat useful for moving some dudes in the Baltic against Russia, too.) If you give no shits about telling Russia/UK what you plan to do (very risky), then buy 6 artillery and 2 infantry.

    G2:
    10 artillery in Germany. Five turns from now these will be attacking Moscow if the allies let you. Buy whatever other units you want out of western germany, be they planes or tanks or whatever “fast” units you feel you need to kill Russia later or support whatever other thing you’re doing right now. You can declare war here provided Russia has left you some units on the front lines to kill, or you are confident you can make it to Novgorod with little resistance.

    This is the absolute last time you will every buy a “slow” unit, unless it’s on the western front to counter some small, weird allied landing parties.

    G1 buys, if any, move to Poland.
    Victorious tanks from the French campaign (and mechs unless you need them to kill Normandy/Southern France) move east to Yugoslavia.

    G3:
    Buy tanks/mechs (heavily favor tanks). Planes only if you need them. You can declare war here provided Russia has left you some units on the front lines to kill, and G3 tends to be the “standard” time to get the ball rolling.

    Starting units (and perhaps a G1 buy) that were grouped up on the front go to Eastern Poland or Baltic States depending on whether you’re moving the bulk of your force through the south or the north. Both have their advantages. I prefer north most games. Wait in Poland only if you absolutely must.
    G2 artillery to Poland.
    French campaign veterans East to Eastern Poland, and they are now with your front.

    G4:
    Buy tanks/mechs (favor tanks unless you’ve lost a lot of mechs already). Planes only if you need them. If you’ve not already declared war, for god’s sake do it now.

    G1&G2 artillery eastward. You’re either 2 or 3 spaces from Moscow with your front, and your G2 10 artillery are either with the front or one space behind.
    G3 tanks/mechs eastward to wherever your G2 units are, 3 away from Moscow.
    Bomb Moscow if possible.

    G5:
    Buy planes. Whatever optimized combination of strategic bombers + tactical bombers you can. You should own Novgorod or Ukraine by this point (or both if Russia sucks).

    G1&G2&G3 combine or move eastward. You’re 2 away from Moscow with your main force, but you want to be able to take and keep Bryansk or Smolensk if Russia lets you. You’ve had one round to detour a bit to take Novgorod, Ukraine, kill some Russian stragglers, or whatever else.
    G4 tanks/mechs eastward to Eastern Poland, 3 away from moscow.
    If your planes were messing around anywhere else, begin to move them into position to hit Russia.
    Bomb Moscow.

    G6:
    Buy planes. Tactical bombers from your Ukraine or Novgorod factories, and anything left goes for heavy bombers in Germany.

    G1&G2&G3&G4 converge on Bryansk or Smolensk outside of Russia. Bryansk is clearly the tactically superior position, and is reachable by either the north or south route, but if you had people coming from a fight in Archangel killing fleeing Russians, Smolensk is an option.
    G5 planes move east.
    All of your planes are hopefully on top of your stack so that they can move back as far westward as they can once you have won, and to protect your stack. This, however, depends on whether or not Russia let you keep Bryansk/Smolensk from last round, or you brought some Italian buddies with you.
    Bomb Moscow.

    At this point, Britain could have flown in a bunch of planes to save Moscow. America might have even flown in some bombers to roll some 1’s and take hits. Maybe Russia abandons Moscow to head south. Maybe you even have some British pushing up through the caucasus. These are all things you need to consider and watch.

    You might be facing a big allied landing in the west. Make sure to block tanks from blitzing around, but otherwise ignore this for now. If Moscow falls, you will almost definitely have all the resources you need to evict them. It is not uncommon to lose everything west of Berlin as you successfully take Moscow.

    G7:

    Option A:
    Hit Russia right the hell now. All units converge, planes fly straight from factories. Glorious, fiery death. At best, you’re looking at an 80% chance to win unless the allies have gifted you with severe mistakes. It could be as low as 5-10% against a very careful Russian player with a bunch of British and American planes sitting there. Somewhere between 5 and 80 percent. Are you feeling ballsy? A fantastic victory, or the beginning of the end, awaits you.

    If you get diced on Round 1 or 2 of the battle, consider Option B.

    Option B:
    Russia might not be able to be killed, but they sure as hell can’t kill you either. Dig in for a long game. Start sending only what you can southward to start getting that sweet, sweet middle east/caucasus/volgograd money. Snake around behind moscow and steal his eastern territories if he lets you. You will quickly outpace the crumbling Russian economy.


  • 2015

    Addendum:

    And you can skip artillery on G2 and go straight for tanks/mechs as well if you like. Dive into Barbarosa on G2. With experienced German players, G2 is the round it usually begins. G2/3: tanks & mechs. G4/5: planes. G6: Hit or dig in for a long game.

    You won’t have as much hitting power, but you’re there faster, so they won’t have as much either. Being there faster means one less turn of high production for Russia, and 6 less russians from the far east if they came straight home. It also makes it a bit more stressful for the allies to get to Moscow in time to save it.

    But, as I said, the above post was ultra-conservative.



  • The best bang for the bucks purchase are 3 Inf and 1 Artillery. In all kind of combats, both attacks and defense, this is the best buy. Some people prefer 4 Inf to 1 Art if they do a lot of strafing or want a strong defense for the stack. But this depends on your playing style.

    Now, since the main battle wont happen in Eastern Poland, because Russia are likely to defend in the depth, and trade territories for time, it is very common to buy 10 Artillery in Turn 1, and keep on buying Mechs for the next turns, and hope you will get a 4 to 1 ratio of Arts and Inf /Mechs before the main battle outside or in Moscow.

    When it comes to Tanks, my impression is that the usual combo is 1 Tanks to 4 Mechs. They are weaker in a main battle than the Art/Inf combo, but got better speed and range, and are a killer in joint operations with Italian can openers.

    Depending on if you want a fast or slow campaign, at some point your should start to buy Bombers or Tacs, depending on the range from the factory to the battlefield. If the factory is 3 spaces away, buy Bombers, don’t waste time on short range planes. Now the tricky part comes. At some point during the main battle, when all your inf is dead, but before all of the Artillery and Mechs are dead too, you should start to take Bombers or planes as casualties. This is for two reasons. A cheap land unit that took like 4 or 6 turns to reach Moscow now got a higher value than the expensive Bomber that got there in one turn. You can never replace a lost Art in Moscow, but your new Bombers will reach it every turn. The other reason is you cant land aircrafts in newly captured territories. If you want to defend newly captured Moscow, you will need land units there. Not a stack of easy to kill Bombers in the adjacent territory.

    This is the basics



  • So I want to see if this is right.

    You buy some infantry/artillery and when you make your landing (let’s say Leningrad) you start buying stacks of tanks/mech. and make your push.   (I am not skipping the purchases for the navy and aircraft)

    Edit. After seeing the post below quick thing to add. So after a little while your need to start buying strat. bombers or maybe tac. bombers.

    Also quick question how can you buy 10 artillery on turn 1 when you have 30 ipcs?


  • '14 Customizer

    @Frederick:

    So I want to see if this is right.

    You buy some infantry/artillery and when you make your landing (let’s say Leningrad) you start buying stacks of tanks/mech. and make your push.  (I am not skipping the purchases for the navy and aircraft)

    Edit. After seeing the post below quick thing to add. So after a little while your need to start buying strat. bombers or maybe tac. bombers.

    Also quick question how can you buy 10 artillery on turn 1 when you have 30 ipcs?

    He produced 10 Artillery on G2 not G1. On G1 he went with 6 artillery and 2 inf. I personally like to buy 2 bombers on G1. They can be put to use right away and the threat of sealion is still there. Without buying the extra bombers you cant bomb UK to 20 on G2 prior to the sealion invasion.


  • 2015

    @cyanight:

    He produced 10 Artillery on G2 not G1. On G1 he went with 6 artillery and 2 inf.

    Well, Narvik did indeed seem to make that error in his post, if I understood Narvik correctly (the same way Fred did). Fred was saying that Narvik was implying that Germany should buy 10 Artillery G1, which it indeed cannot do.

    I think it’s also worth mentioning I don’t know what the hell Narvik was talking about in general as a strategy for Germany. Buying that many slow units, and at that ratio, for Germany with the intention of sending them east is detrimental. Buy slow artillery only once (or never, see my last post), as you only get an extremely tiny window of opportunity to do it, and then your mechs you build afterward to utilize them more fully catch up without issue. Also, Germany starts off with a lot of infantry and comparably few artillery. G1/G2 is the only chance to balance that out (or not, see my last post).

    Either Narvik is way ahead on me with his 3:1 inf:art ratio on attacking wisdom, or he’s wrong. I put it more like somewhere between 4:3 and 7:6 as a general rule, and assume I have more infantry or mechs coming after me as reinforcements after a fight.

    On offense:
    3:1 = 6 pips / 4 hp for 13 IPCs
    7:6 = 7.22 pips / 3.75 hp for 13 IPCs (fractions are fun!)

    1.22 pips for .25 hp is a preferable deal for most compartively-sized skirmishes. Yeah, you’re going to have more HP with 3:1, but there’s going to be more things alive to kill you after the first round as well. If you’re going to be one-shotting a lot of battles, 3:1 is great, but your enemy is not very bright. He should be pulling back to avoid handing you little gift packages. It’s also better to front load yourself with plenty of artillery because new ones will never catch up to the fight. Mechanized infantry will.

    The proposed 4:1 ratio is close to being insane, unless he means he was going to bring in planes, but he didn’t say that.

    On defense:
    3:1 = 8 pips / 4 hp for 13 IPCs
    7:6 = 7.5 pips / 3.75 hp for 13 IPCs

    Yeah, sure, defense is better. Won’t argue there. But, umm, maybe run by me again why Germany is planning on being so defensive?

    As far as defending Moscow after you take it: there are a ton of what-ifs to consider, but assuming play of equal skill level up to this point in the game, I can’t see how this is going to be an issue in most circumstances. Some possibilities? Yes, fine. Most logical possibilities? Absolutely not. You either take it by smashing it all or with much less walking in after a Russian retreat, or you dig in and play the long game.

    @cyanight:

    I personally like to buy 2 bombers on G1. They can be put to use right away and the threat of sealion is still there. Without buying the extra bombers you cant bomb UK to 20 on G2 prior to the sealion invasion.

    This is not the worst thing to do, strategic bombers are incredibly flexible for Germany, but I might have to disagree with you that you can’t SBR London effectively without them. To 20? No, you’re right. But you still have two strat bombers to hit the major factory on G2, and then hopefully some tac bombers and fighters left to hit the air base and escort, unless your G1 attacks went really pair-shaped on you. Also, two more strat bombers is two more chances to lose strat bombers. I don’t know if doing 5.5 IPCs of damage to UK (and then only maybe!) feels like the right thing to do.

    As UK I would not see a 2x Strat Bomber purchase on G1 as a strong sea lion threat. For 24 IPCs you can do better than roll two more dice for 4’s in London, especially since both of those dice have a 1/6th chance of not even being able to participate because of AA cover.

    You’re taking two 1/6th chances per each bomber by SBR’ing and then attacking with them. That’s a 30% chance to end the ordeal without a bomber, per bomber. I can’t run the numbers in my head to see if that kind of risk (but high potential future versatility) is worth the investment, but I can confidently say that it’s not the optimal play for Sea Lion, nor is it the optimal play for Barbarosa.



  • @teslas:

    Either Narvik is way ahead on me with his 3:1 inf:art ratio on attacking wisdom, or he’s wrong.

    Narvik is of course not wrong, but I think we are misunderstating each other here. Basically the 3 Inf to 1 Art ratio is the most combat effective punch for that cost, if the battle last for several rounds. The Inf are cheap fodder, their job is to soak hits. This is an economic game, and with a 7 Inf to 6 Art ratio you are likely to spend expensive Arts as fodder. But, since the battlefield is far away from the factory, we need to start with lots of Art, and reinforce with fast Mechs. At this point we agree.

    Yes, it was a mistake to buy 10 Arts in Turn 1. My bad. Of course the 10 Arts must be purchased in Turn 2. I am so used to everybody buy navy or bombers Turn 1, so I took it for granted you would know I was talking about Turn 2. Luckily I don’t make a living as professional teacher.

    Different people prefer different strategies, and the fast strategy isn’t necessary better than the slow strategy. The 4 Inf to 1 Art ratio isn’t necessary insane if you go slow in Russia and plan to do a lot of territory trading with 1 Inf and 2 fighters, while you clean up Africa, crush some neutrals, invade UK or sink ships in the Atlantic, or hundred other things. This is a balanced game, that is designed for playability, so every thinkable strategy should be equal. You cant say this or that is better. It all depends on your opponent. I actually know some people that buy nothing but Bombers as Germany. And they win a lot of games too. Until the Allies comes up with a counter move.


  • 2018 2017 2016

    Best unit choice (singular)? I pass.

    But I do prefer a good solid mix on Arms,mechs and bmbrs.



  • aequitas et veritas, it should be units that was my mistake.

    Thank you guys for the advise I hope to learn more.



  • I play Axis often and almost always do Barbarossa over Sealion.  There are many ways to go about it, but as a rule you want to stack Bryansk by G5 (high level play can stack it on G4 but this is complicated and involves a Yugo straffe) and have Italian mechs/tanks/air in range to can open potential Russian blockers in Rostov.  then on G6 (assuming the Allies covered Moscow properly and you can’t just take Moscow) you move through Rostov and take Volgograd and Caucasus with German mechanized infantry.  Bryansk on G5 is a dominate position for the Axis because you have Russia pinned and guarding it’s capital while you can use your German/Italian fast to take high value territories such as Volgograd, cauc, and even Persia or Iraq depending on Allied investment in that region.  It all depends on what the Allies are doing, but in general I recommend this build order: G1: 2 infantry, 6 art G2: 5 Tanks, 6 mechs, sub, dd (to block Russian convoy and protect your Baltic fleet), G3: More Mechs and tanks G4: Is the decision round. You need to make a choice here on if you’re going to buy air and strike Moscow on G6 or if you’re going to continue to buy mechs and tanks.  If you are hitting Moscow buy strat bombers on G4 and G5. If you’re going to head South and take the mid east away from the Allies then continue to buy ground units.  Again the key is Bryansk and Italian can open units. Once you’ve stacked Bryansk you can easily continue to pin Russia while you use your spare German and Italian mechs/tanks to take Persia.



  • I say G1 art (possible mechinf), G2-3 (or4) MI and G4 (or5)-6 airpower and forces against the western allies.

    I have done more or less  the same, except that I buy around 18-20 mechs og G2 and my target is to stack rostov with an italian canopener on moscow. The italian canopener is 1-2 tanks 6-8 infs and usually 4 planes. (I take yugo with germany in G1, then The northern italian tank can activate bulgaria together with the 2 infs and 1 tank from albania.

    The entire idea is that I can advance as long as russia cannot counterattack. With 10 italian landunits and 2 italian fighters, it is very eays to advance and stop a counterattack. I always keep enough of luftwaffe close enough to make sure that it is very difficult for the russian to block me from advancing to rostov.

    Once I stand in rostov with the entire german army and an italian army capable of canopening 10+ russian units, the russian army have no choise but to fall back to moscow, and I can take caucasus, Iran, iraq and stalingrad while keeping the russian bottled up. Leningrad should also fall easily when the russian has to commit everything south.

    With this extra IPC the german can together with japan hopefully be able to reach an economic advantage over the allies.

    @Pherman1215:

    I play Axis often and almost always do Barbarossa over Sealion.  There are many ways to go about it, but as a rule you want to stack Bryansk by G5 (high level play can stack it on G4 but this is complicated and involves a Yugo straffe) and have Italian mechs/tanks/air in range to can open potential Russian blockers in Rostov.  then on G6 (assuming the Allies covered Moscow properly and you can’t just take Moscow) you move through Rostov and take Volgograd and Caucasus with German mechanized infantry.  Bryansk on G5 is a dominate position for the Axis because you have Russia pinned and guarding it’s capital while you can use your German/Italian fast to take high value territories such as Volgograd, cauc, and even Persia or Iraq depending on Allied investment in that region.  It all depends on what the Allies are doing, but in general I recommend this build order: G1: 2 infantry, 6 art G2: 5 Tanks, 6 mechs, sub, dd (to block Russian convoy and protect your Baltic fleet), G3: More Mechs and tanks G4: Is the decision round. You need to make a choice here on if you’re going to buy air and strike Moscow on G6 or if you’re going to continue to buy mechs and tanks.  If you are hitting Moscow buy strat bombers on G4 and G5. If you’re going to head South and take the mid east away from the Allies then continue to buy ground units.  Again the key is Bryansk and Italian can open units. Once you’ve stacked Bryansk you can easily continue to pin Russia while you use your spare German and Italian mechs/tanks to take Persia.



  • This is a good strategy and it’s basically another way of accomplishing the same thing I try and accomplish.

    @Kreuzfeld:

    I say G1 art (possible mechinf), G2-3 (or4) MI and G4 (or5)-6 airpower and forces against the western allies.

    I have done more or less  the same, except that I buy around 18-20 mechs og G2 and my target is to stack rostov with an italian canopener on moscow. The italian canopener is 1-2 tanks 6-8 infs and usually 4 planes. (I take yugo with germany in G1, then The northern italian tank can activate bulgaria together with the 2 infs and 1 tank from albania.

    The entire idea is that I can advance as long as russia cannot counterattack. With 10 italian landunits and 2 italian fighters, it is very eays to advance and stop a counterattack. I always keep enough of luftwaffe close enough to make sure that it is very difficult for the russian to block me from advancing to rostov.

    Once I stand in rostov with the entire german army and an italian army capable of canopening 10+ russian units, the russian army have no choise but to fall back to moscow, and I can take caucasus, Iran, iraq and stalingrad while keeping the russian bottled up. Leningrad should also fall easily when the russian has to commit everything south.

    With this extra IPC the german can together with japan hopefully be able to reach an economic advantage over the allies.

    @Pherman1215:

    I play Axis often and almost always do Barbarossa over Sealion.  There are many ways to go about it, but as a rule you want to stack Bryansk by G5 (high level play can stack it on G4 but this is complicated and involves a Yugo straffe) and have Italian mechs/tanks/air in range to can open potential Russian blockers in Rostov.  then on G6 (assuming the Allies covered Moscow properly and you can’t just take Moscow) you move through Rostov and take Volgograd and Caucasus with German mechanized infantry.  Bryansk on G5 is a dominate position for the Axis because you have Russia pinned and guarding it’s capital while you can use your German/Italian fast to take high value territories such as Volgograd, cauc, and even Persia or Iraq depending on Allied investment in that region.  It all depends on what the Allies are doing, but in general I recommend this build order: G1: 2 infantry, 6 art G2: 5 Tanks, 6 mechs, sub, dd (to block Russian convoy and protect your Baltic fleet), G3: More Mechs and tanks G4: Is the decision round. You need to make a choice here on if you’re going to buy air and strike Moscow on G6 or if you’re going to continue to buy mechs and tanks.  If you are hitting Moscow buy strat bombers on G4 and G5. If you’re going to head South and take the mid east away from the Allies then continue to buy ground units.  Again the key is Bryansk and Italian can open units. Once you’ve stacked Bryansk you can easily continue to pin Russia while you use your spare German and Italian mechs/tanks to take Persia.



  • Thanks for sharing these ideas.  I inhale vigorously as the German player.  I keep running into stacks of infintry and getting widdled down to nothing.  I think I know where the mistakes are being made now.  Once again, thanks.


  • TripleA

    Buy mech/armor at a 1-1 ratio, simple as that from g2 onward. You pretty much should get russia G5 6 or 7


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