Game 4 Finished Uploaded to You Tube



  • https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3ajbGfDjJbGOp7k1TqmSmA

    Stop by and check it out. One note, all chips regardless of color represent one unit. We just love looking at Super Stacks of units.



  • Cool videos, I like Giant stacks of infantry. 😄



  • Thought about going into Russia heavy with AH and ignoring Italy completly? Opening moves something like:

    Galicia 6inf/2art -> Romania
    BudaPest 12inf/2 art -> Romania
    Trieste 6inf/2art -> Serbia
    Tyrole 6inf/2art ->Treiste
    Vienna 12inf/2art ->Galicia

    Buy 4inf/2art/1plane

    Romania should fall with something like 3 inf losses for AH and Serbia should almost fall or have 1 Russian inf left.

    That means Russia are facing 15inf/4art in Romania and 18inf/4art in Galicia. Really hard place to be in… Stacking Polan or Ukrane will be a disaster and they can only really fall back ino Belarus.



  • Smart idea Oddbjoern, you are also going to have to kill Russia fast as you can or else the Italians will get really annoying. Once Serbia has fallen I would send my forces from there to Albania because the allies could land there and if you don’t take care of it they also will get pretty annoying. I have a question on that, is your reinforcements going to help face Russia or Italy?



  • I like the opening move. When the Russian rev rule is not in play, I usually go heavier into Russia.

    Ignoring Italy on turn 1 is one way to go. However,  Italy will be coming at AH with a nice stack on round 2. In addition, they have units in Albania they activated in round 1.

    They will be able to attack Trieste on round 2 and contest it.



  • The plane is going east the rest is going west.

    Assume some bad luck against serbia in round 1, 3inf/2art surviving and 1 russian inf left.
    Assume Italiens did not attack AH round 1 (its a bad play for the italiens)

    AH2:
    Vienna 4inf/2art ->Trieste
    Serbia 2inf/2art ->Trieste (retreat but leave one unit so Russia cant move its inf)
    Trieste should now have 12inf/6art
    Buy (with 29IPC): 7inf/2art

    Ottoman2
    Bulgaria 6inf/1art ->Serbia (I assume you go light into bulgaria so you can use the rest for UK defence)

    Italy2
    Hard choices. They can move in 13inf/4art into Tyrole which is still empty or attack Trieste.
    Attack Trieste means 13inf/4art vs 12inf/6art ->Average Italy loses 9 and AH loses 7. AH will pretty much kill the rest in round 3, leaving the road to Rome kinda open. Moving into Tyrole is a little better but Italy will still be hit hard round3.

    The point Im trying to make that even if you leave Italy alone round1, they cant go on the offensive as it makes capture of Rome even faster.



  • Nice vid but some strange moves from the Allies…

    Why should US attack Spain?? The Germans take Paris while the Amis drive their tanks through Madrid…  😛



  • I can think of a couple of valid reasons that the US may want to attack Spain, depending on its goals.

    First, Spain is worth 4 IPC and there are limited opportunities for the US to increase its income on this board.

    Second, Spain gives you a staging area to shuck troops to either Europe or the Meditteranean. Yes, you can get to Europe through Canada, and you can get to Albania/Middle East through Spanish Morocco, but only Spain gives you the choice of doing either.

    I had the buys worked out for a Round 5 hit on Spain with good odds of taking it in one round, but I don’t know what I’ve done with it. I’m not suggesting the US should always hit Spain. In fact I’ve never actually tried it. But there are valid reasons for doing it, depending on your overall strategy.



  • Odd,

    You make great points. I have to over your math again for Italian front. I also think we need to look at Russia’s reinforcements if they do not attack Mesopotamia. By all means keep suggestions coming as it gives more ideas for our ne t game.

    Spain was attacked because USA had 4 tanks and could take Spain without losing money. In that game allies were hoping Paris would hold out for another turn. It was a gamble, and it did not pay off. At that point in the game the centrals were in the drivers seat and the allies were desperate to increase their income.



  • US should attack Spain if Italy can hold for reinforcements or if they can’t then US shouldn’t attack and reinforce Italy.



  • Attacking Spain is always suboptimal as it delays US for at least one round.

    With the US you can pretty much decide between a defensive or an aggressive approach. IN the defensive you go with 8 transports and in the aggressive you go with 7.
    US has 20 IPC and cant move for the first 4 rounds. This means you have 80 IPC worth of units that you need to plan for.
    Defensive:
    8 transports, 56 ICP + 8 inf, 24 IPC = 80 IPC (You start with 6 inf and 2 art) -> 8 transport with 14 inf and 2 art.

    Offensive
    7 transport,49 IPC + 1 inf, 3 IPC = 52 IPC -> You have 28 IPC to buy heavy hiters with (needs to fill 5 spots), perhaps, 1 art, 3 tanks and 1 plane. -> 7 transport with 7 inf, 3 art , 3 tanks and 1 plane.

    As most of your buys with the US are transport, you might as well buy those the first rounds so you can wait to decide if you wanna go offensive or defensive. In all my games so far US has been forced to go defensive in Italy.



  • @Oddbjoern:

    Attacking Spain is always suboptimal as it delays US for at least one round.

    With the US you can pretty much decide between a defensive or an aggressive approach. IN the defensive you go with 8 transports and in the aggressive you go with 7.
    US has 20 IPC and cant move for the first 4 rounds. This means you have 80 IPC worth of units that you need to plan for.
    Defensive:
    8 transports, 56 ICP + 8 inf, 24 IPC = 80 IPC (You start with 6 inf and 2 art) -> 8 transport with 14 inf and 2 art.

    Offensive
    7 transport,49 IPC + 1 inf, 3 IPC = 52 IPC -> You have 28 IPC to buy heavy hiters with (needs to fill 5 spots), perhaps, 1 art, 3 tanks and 1 plane. -> 7 transport with 7 inf, 3 art , 3 tanks and 1 plane.

    As most of your buys with the US are transport, you might as well buy those the first rounds so you can wait to decide if you wanna go offensive or defensive. In all my games so far US has been forced to go defensive in Italy.

    Your statement that attacking Spain always wastes a round isn’t necessarily true.

    Transports only cost 6 IPCs in this game meaning that you can buy 8 transports for 48 IPCs. That leaves 32 IPCs which if you want pure offense (optimal in most cases) can be 5 art 2 inf and a fighter for a grand total of 8 inf 7 art and a fighter. This force will have at least 51 pips (and a 50% chance of having 53 pips if the coastal shot misses), not to mention you should probably have the 66% chance of a bombard hit. It’s not a guarantee to be a one round battle by any means, but the most likely outcome is a one round battle.

    Assuming that the US doesn’t need to buy any warships to deal with purchased German navy (which shouldn’t happen in a normal game), I like to hit Spain as a base of operations and a great income boost. If you wipe it out in one turn, it should pay for your losses in 3-4 turns. That income is also crucial to upping the US shuck from 6 units a turn to 8 units a turn. I wouldn’t say that Spain is a requirement, but unless Rome or Paris is in grave danger (and neither should be on turn 4 in most games) it helps the US do significantly more damage in the long run.



  • @pokemaniac:

    @Oddbjoern:

    Attacking Spain is always suboptimal as it delays US for at least one round.

    With the US you can pretty much decide between a defensive or an aggressive approach. IN the defensive you go with 8 transports and in the aggressive you go with 7.
    US has 20 IPC and cant move for the first 4 rounds. This means you have 80 IPC worth of units that you need to plan for.
    Defensive:
    8 transports, 56 ICP + 8 inf, 24 IPC = 80 IPC (You start with 6 inf and 2 art) -> 8 transport with 14 inf and 2 art.

    Offensive
    7 transport,49 IPC + 1 inf, 3 IPC = 52 IPC -> You have 28 IPC to buy heavy hiters with (needs to fill 5 spots), perhaps, 1 art, 3 tanks and 1 plane. -> 7 transport with 7 inf, 3 art , 3 tanks and 1 plane.

    As most of your buys with the US are transport, you might as well buy those the first rounds so you can wait to decide if you wanna go offensive or defensive. In all my games so far US has been forced to go defensive in Italy.

    Your statement that attacking Spain always wastes a round isn’t necessarily true.

    Transports only cost 6 IPCs in this game meaning that you can buy 8 transports for 48 IPCs. That leaves 32 IPCs which if you want pure offense (optimal in most cases) can be 5 art 2 inf and a fighter for a grand total of 8 inf 7 art and a fighter. This force will have at least 51 pips (and a 50% chance of having 53 pips if the coastal shot misses), not to mention you should probably have the 66% chance of a bombard hit. It’s not a guarantee to be a one round battle by any means, but the most likely outcome is a one round battle.

    Assuming that the US doesn’t need to buy any warships to deal with purchased German navy (which shouldn’t happen in a normal game), I like to hit Spain as a base of operations and a great income boost. If you wipe it out in one turn, it should pay for your losses in 3-4 turns. That income is also crucial to upping the US shuck from 6 units a turn to 8 units a turn. I wouldn’t say that Spain is a requirement, but unless Rome or Paris is in grave danger (and neither should be on turn 4 in most games) it helps the US do significantly more damage in the long run.

    This.
    Although it should be noted that the US does declare war at the beginning of its fourth turn, so you could attack Spain after only spending 60 IPCs on the first 3 turns. Max punch would be 7 transports [42] + 2 inf [6] + 3 art [12], for a shakier attack with only 8 inf (maybe 7 if the coastal shot hits), 5 art 1 bombard. This yields 36/34 pips from ground and 4 from the battleship, so the US would need a little luck to one-shot Spain, but if they do, they’re not slowed down landing-wise. Or you can accept the 1-round delay and attack round 5 when it’s basically a slam dunk.

    –--------------------------------------

    My main comment on the game posted is just curiosity why the entire Russian army just kinda died Rd 5-7. It looked like Germany committed super hard to France and I know Austria can only safely push Russia back/capture Moscow by themselves if they completely ignore Italy, which they didn’t do in the game, so my best guess is that France played super cowardly and let the Germans advance when they should have been able to counter them at some point?

    EDIT: Just watched through the game in detail (pausing at each different frame) and thought I’d give a breakdown of the first couple rounds.

    AH1: Large attack on Venice, appears to be average results. Light contests of Serbia and Romania. Invades Poland with Galicia, gets 6 hits (+2 2/3) to the Russians’ 4 (avg).
    R1: Counters Poland (bad idea, should just withdraw completely), counters Romania (maybe okay as long as Ukraine is safe, but Austria might be able to collapse on Romania), doesn’t attack Ottoman cruisers (no reason not to), doesn’t advance Battleship to SZ10 (personal preference, to take a shot rd2 at the remaining German ships in SZ9)
    G1: Kills Canadian fleet with a sub surviving, only loses 1 sub in SZ 9 (potentially huge, but the extra navy probably won’t affect allied play much), max hit on Belgium, all Munich/Kiel/Berlin towards Western front (good sized German force, but shouldn’t be able to push France out of Picardy I don’t think), Prussia/Silesia/fighter attack Poland (very good trade since Russia foolishly tried to defend), Hanovre towards Eastern front.
    F1: Medium stacks Picardy and Lorraine (absolutely terrible idea, G’s just gonna crush Lorraine, activates Portugal and prepares to bring Canadians over (okay, but activating Albania with France so the Italians can move them on their turn is just too strong, especially with the light AH investment in the Balkans), doesn’t take Spanish Morocco
    UK1: Attacks Persia (not guaranteed to take in 1 round and next round you can slam dunk it with your build), doesn’t attack Trans-Jordan (exposed Ottoman material unlikely to be countered [they only have 7 inf 1 art to attack back and you should survive with 6-8 units if you bring 2 from India]), activates Arabia, retreats Med cruiser to India (absolutely useless, what CP ships are threatening the other side of the Suez? Send that guy to defend Italian med fleet/Atlantic fleet, especially since Germany survived with so much. Send the Indian battleship as well unless you want the bombard)
    O1: Activate Bulgaria with inf/art, pushes rest of troops toward British fronts. Trans-Jordan now super well defended with an extra coastal artillery, while British threat on it hasn’t increased at all)
    I1: Adds troops to Venice to continue contesting (looks like AH can still get favorable ratios by attacking, so just leaving 1 inf to stall them would probably be better), activates Albania (as stated before, could have potentially moved the bonus guys if France activated, plus Libyans could to Italy itself), doesn’t appear to have advanced the Somalian guy.
    US1: Probably built units.

    AH2: Got some split stack between Galicia/Budapest. German threat to the north is probably the only thing making this okay. Would be punishable if Russia hadn’t wasted so many troops in Poland.
    R2: Pulls back to Ukraine (should’ve been done Rd1), moves rd1 build to defend Livonia (they should go to Ukraine in my opinion. The German flank isn’t going to be able to take Moscow; you can always pull enough troops back to prevent it. But you want to keep the Austrians out of Ukraine for as long as possible.
    G2: Crushes Lorraine (as expected), retreats navy to port, builds up in Poland. Rd1 build ~5 inf east, rest west.
    F2: Appears to have tried to continue contesting Lorraine (again, absolutely terrible. France is just throwing away troops for terrible ratios), moves some Canadians and Portuguese up to Picardy.
    UK2: Reinforces Arabia (not helpful, there’s too many Ottomans since TJ wasn’t taken, just going to take bad ratios when the Ottomans attack), takes Persia (again, could have just waited), Indian cruiser continues to do nothing (granted the huge OOB French navy kind of makes this moot, but it matters when you downgrade that like my games usually do)
    O2: Attacks Arabia (lighter than they should-I would have abandoned Mesopotamia because I don’t think they’ll get good ratios defending against the Brits next turn), attacks Romania.
    I2: Counters Venice (AH stayed too long without reinforcements-good move by Italy), counters Serbia (another good annoyance for AH)
    US2: Continues building units.

    So from this I’d pinpoint the Allied loss to 2 main events:
    1: Russia countered Poland.
    This is pretty much never a good idea, unless AH attacks just it and leaves no troops in Galicia and doesn’t take Romania. That’s the only scenario that I can think of that Russia shouldn’t pull every troop possible into Ukraine (except maybe a couple so the Ottomans don’t take Sevastopol). Big stacks favor the defender, especially when the attack is split between two powers. Letting the smaller power get favorable ratios is really bad. You want to force the smaller power to take terrible ratios in order to give the larger power a (better) chance.

    2: France splits their stack.
    Rule #1 of A&A: Never medium stack. A competent opponent will just crush one of them and your other will be helpless to counter since the one was lost with such terrible ratios. Max stack, light stack for trading, or leave empty, but never medium stack. Having split stacks is O.K. if they’re both safe (e.g. Russia defending both Caucasus mostly and Moscow from a tank blitz in Revised), but then I would consider the main one a max stack.

    Britain also wasn’t the most efficient at pushing the Ottomans in, but they probably wouldn’t have been able to save the other allies from their mistakes.



  • @pokemaniac:

    @Oddbjoern:

    Attacking Spain is always suboptimal as it delays US for at least one round.

    With the US you can pretty much decide between a defensive or an aggressive approach. IN the defensive you go with 8 transports and in the aggressive you go with 7.
    US has 20 IPC and cant move for the first 4 rounds. This means you have 80 IPC worth of units that you need to plan for.
    Defensive:
    8 transports, 56 ICP + 8 inf, 24 IPC = 80 IPC (You start with 6 inf and 2 art) -> 8 transport with 14 inf and 2 art.

    Offensive
    7 transport,49 IPC + 1 inf, 3 IPC = 52 IPC -> You have 28 IPC to buy heavy hiters with (needs to fill 5 spots), perhaps, 1 art, 3 tanks and 1 plane. -> 7 transport with 7 inf, 3 art , 3 tanks and 1 plane.

    As most of your buys with the US are transport, you might as well buy those the first rounds so you can wait to decide if you wanna go offensive or defensive. In all my games so far US has been forced to go defensive in Italy.

    Your statement that attacking Spain always wastes a round isn’t necessarily true.

    Transports only cost 6 IPCs in this game meaning that you can buy 8 transports for 48 IPCs. That leaves 32 IPCs which if you want pure offense (optimal in most cases) can be 5 art 2 inf and a fighter for a grand total of 8 inf 7 art and a fighter. This force will have at least 51 pips (and a 50% chance of having 53 pips if the coastal shot misses), not to mention you should probably have the 66% chance of a bombard hit. It’s not a guarantee to be a one round battle by any means, but the most likely outcome is a one round battle.

    Assuming that the US doesn’t need to buy any warships to deal with purchased German navy (which shouldn’t happen in a normal game), I like to hit Spain as a base of operations and a great income boost. If you wipe it out in one turn, it should pay for your losses in 3-4 turns. That income is also crucial to upping the US shuck from 6 units a turn to 8 units a turn. I wouldn’t say that Spain is a requirement, but unless Rome or Paris is in grave danger (and neither should be on turn 4 in most games) it helps the US do significantly more damage in the long run.

    Sorry I got some fact wrong, Transport 6 IPC and US can start moving in turn 4 not 5.
    This means US needs to spend 60 IPC. The best way I can think of attacking Spain turn 4 is with 7 transport stacked with 12inf/2art which means an average 6.5 hits first round (including BS and Cruiser). Since Spain has 8 units its a gamle unless you are willing to spend 2 round taking it.
    However you also need to take into account that US also loses 4 units in average by doing this attack which means not only does the US aid risk coming 1 turn late it also lacks 4 inf. 4 inf = 12 IPC, Spain is worth 4 IPC -> The Payback on investment is 3 turns… I would dare say that by the turn (9-10) US have gotten its investment back the game is more or less over, but I dare say that the influence the US can have by adding 4 more inf one turn earlier at turn 6-7 can really impact the game.

    Why isent this a no brainer bad idea to attack Spain?



  • Do you guys think that US should get Spanish Morocco if France doesn’t get it or do you think France should get it. I think attacking Spain is a smart move to do unless Rome or Paris is in trouble. But you must choose delay 1 round and really likely to take it early or don’t wait and attack soon as possible and likely not to take it early and be aggressive. I here people say that France can attack Spain, but when do you do that and with how many forces do you bring?



  • In my only few games, France has been the holder of the lines against the Germans.  They have had little to no opportunities to commit any significant amount of forces to attack Spain.  These holdings were necessary to give the Brits/Americans time and comfort enough to make it to the mainland to help reinforce the French and try to push back.

    Maybe it is used as a last ditch effort or end game strat?  Or maybe it could be done early if Germany does something other than stack heavy against the French?  Say, massive committal to Russia Rd1 and/or a split committal to taking Denmark/Holland/buildup to attack Brits?



  • Excellent battle analysis, ColonelCarter.
    To Frederick II: France should always take Spanish Morocco, and I agree that the US should not attack Spain.



  • Has anyone else tried a French tactic of (F1) A. Taking Spanish Morocco, B. Mobilizing Portugal and consolidating the transport fleet; (F2) Borrowing the mobilized Portuguese to swing down to SZ 23/ Togoland with a significant force; (F3) Move French transports back towards Canada and using the French African Task Force to Gain IPCs for France and to eliminate the Germans in Africa?


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