@DoManMacgee Hi DMM & thanks for the response… Really appreciate that these forums have experienced players who weigh in on things. It was OOB with a 12 bid.
That’s pretty much what Japan did - eliminate the threats and take back the 2 islands as advantageously as possible while still consolidating the fleet. I was just surprised how long it then took for Japan to have any pressure westward. India, in spite of losing 2 men on the initial Kwangtung foray, stayed around for quite a while (minimal investment for a KGF).
What helped, no doubt, was that Russia traded unfavourably in the initial Caucasus strafe (dice game, lost 3 inf to Germany’s 2, and took W Russia at odds) and the Germans (rather than push hard back immediately), decided to save the Med fleet with a carrier. This made the Egypt / Africa game interesting, but maybe a different buy on G1 and the Germans win sooner. Always tough to say.
But, as many have pointed out here, the Axis have such a strong start in this game it was nice to have a hotly contested battle!
What is a 'bid'?
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They say the only stupid question is the one that goes unasked, I hope that’s true :-)
In many different threads I see the term ‘bid’ being used i.e. the allies were awarded a bid and so forth. Maybe I missed that in the rules, or perhaps that is something outside the rules? What is a bid exactly? Thanks folks. :-)
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If we assume that one side or another (in this case the Axis) has the advantage in the OOB setup, then the bid is the value of extra units (in IPCs) that the Allied player needs to make it fair.
The bid is decided via negotiation. Someone gets to bid first (flip a coin if necessary). They start with a high number (say 20) and take turns bidding down until 1 player or the other would rather take Axis then to take Allies with that bid.
I bid 20,
19
18
17
16
15
14
13
12
yours.As soon as you don’t want to bid any lower for Allies (you’d rather have Axis then bid lower) you say “yours” so the other player gets Allies at the bid they stated.
If the bid is 10, then typically the Allied player is allowed to place 10 ipcs of units on the board. Or sometimes the bid is merely a cash bid, and the 10 ipcs gets added to existing 1st turn IPCs for one of the Allied powers.
Bidding is a means of 1) deciding sides fairly 2) balancing the game fairly.
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If you want to know more is a section on bidding in Black_Elk’s 1942.2 Strategy Guide a few places below this thread.
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Thank you both. I’ve only had the opportunity to play 1942.2 a couple of times now. Do a lot of folks consider it slanted towards the Axis? I played Allies both times and felt pretty solid with them each time.
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I wouldn’t worry too much about bidding at this point. Especially if you’re just a few games in. In the future someone in your playgroup might want to explore some additional options to improve the Allied game, but a bid really has more to do with “who” you are playing, rather than the objective starting conditions/balance. The level of confidence or perception of fairness they have about the balance, will help to determine whether a bid is needed, and if so, by how much.
What I mean is that, a bid is used primarily as a way to put both players on an even footing, to balance things out, according to skill level and familiarity with the game map among the players who are actually playing. The process comes to us from competitive play, where you really want either player to have a reasonable expectation they might “win” provided they play well. And that it won’t be some 7 hour uphill slog, where the best you can hope for is “not to die too soon!” :-D
But how the experts do things, only really matters if that’s who you are going up against. And remember that even experts can get it wrong for months, thinking one side has the edge, until someone comes along and shows them a new opening move, that blows their mind, bulldozes the entire strategic edifice to the ground, and resets everything back to square 1.
It usually takes at least a year, and at least a tournament or two for the top tier players to settle on a “fair” bid. Even then, sometimes the tables can turn unexpectedly. So its hard to know who to trust, beyond your own playgroup. A good place to get a feel for what’s common, is to check the play by forum section and see what sorts of bids players are using.
The method Zhukov outlined above is the most popular.
But a lot of it has to do with what victory conditions you are playing, and whether you’re limited by time to some set number of hours/rounds. The overall balance of power can shift, after Russia is eliminated, which means that if you are playing to concession, the game could go on for a very long time. On the other hand, if you’re in a tounament, there might be other limitations put in place, to ensure that the tournament resolves in an expedient amount of time. So again it depends on where you’re playing, and who you’re playing against.
The main thing a bid does, is to allow a way for players to choose sides based on their own assessment of game’s overall balance vs their own assessment of the opponent’s skill. So you could just as easily bid for the Axis, if your friend is brand new to A&A, and just really wants to play Germany for some reason. That would work well since the board is basically Axis advantage in the short term. You might even give them something extra to work with, to prevent an all out slaughter. ;)
When I play 1942.2 against the HardAI in tripleA I will give the Axis a bid. Not because I think the board is Allied advantage in general, but just because I know I can beat the AI too easily otherwise for the game to be enjoyable. Enjoyment is the key. You want both players to go into it feeling good about their prospects, rather than constantly lamenting “such and such” about how the boxed game is unbalanced by sides. If nobody has noticed or brought it up yet, I wouldn’t bother with bids until that point occurs. ;)
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I don’t play golf, so I may be wrong about this, but I think that an A&A bid is roughly similar to a golf handicap.
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Thanks for the explanations everyone, I understand it now. A good way to help novice players out a bit. I’ve probably played a hundred or more games of the classic version and that would have been helpful at the beginning. Unfortunately the two that taught us were more interested in winning than properly teaching the game. Once I purchased the game myself things changed dramatically.
My teaching method for newbies is to basically get them up to my speed as quickly as possible. This means that the first game or two I will point out things, even if it is detrimental to my own side, so that they learn for the future. That way they have a fair chance and enjoy the game and want to play again. After a game or two they’re normally doing well on their own and I can enjoy a good challenging game.
Did the same thing when I was teaching my son Starfleet Battles. Now he more than gives me a tough fight and in fact wins quite a bit. His Kzinti has beaten my Lyran five time in the last seven games! So this bid idea will be of use if I need it for newbies in the future. Good idea. Thanks again.
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