Historical Lend Lease



  • Has anyone tried this option in the Rules?  Since they can be paired with escorts, can any axis country attack the convoys while not at war with the US?



  • Yes. My understanding is that an axis power that is at war with a lend lease receiver but not the US can attack lend-lease convoys.



  • I think what ghr2 is saying, is that since you can escort your lend/lease shipment, and it is attacked, does that qualify as an act of war, declaration of war, since you are now attacking the American warship(s) that are on escort duty.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    I can see it being where if US lend lease convoy is attacked then that’s an act of war.
    Its going to take 2 turns just to get to Russia and also does the convoy get to move 5 spaces with naval base ? Now looks like the Uk will get most of lend lease and have to help out Russia more unless of course no G subs around.
    Its also says " after unloading, the L/L convoy must return to a sea zone adjacent to the US before all ships can return to normal operation.
    So I’m assuming that the convoy ships cannot attack anything until they return to a US.
    I like this rule now because then US can’t just send half their money every turn.
    It will be 6 turns before Russia gets any real money. That"s where I see it going to the UK more.



  • It is NOT an act of war.
    From tigerman,“Why not have a more realistic lend/lease.  Load up transports and escort them across the oceans and deliver money, units, supplies…etc.  During lend lease phase load transports with money and escort them…maybe 6-8 movement…Each transport can carry 10 IPCs. This would slow the lend lease down some and would make the intervention more realistic.  Of course if a transport is sunk the cargo is lost!! A US lend lease convoy that is attacked would not bring the US into the War early.”
    This is the thread. http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34656.15


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    I remember talking about this earlier. Tigermans suggestion would be good to try too.
    How about changing the chart ?

    1:      Axis gets it all
    2-4:  All money goes to bank.
    5-7:  Half of money goes to bank
    8-12: Allies get all the money.

    Change it to

    1:      Axis gets it all.
    2-5:    All goes to bank.
    6-9:    Half goes to bank.
    10-12: Allies get all the money.

    OR

    1:        Axis gets it all.
    2-4:    All goes to the bank.
    5-9      Half goes to bank.
    10-12: Allies get all the money.

    For some people try playing with the changes to either chart and see what happens or try Tigermans suggestion.



  • @SS:

    I can see it being where if US lend lease convoy is attacked then that’s an act of war.
    Its going to take 2 turns just to get to Russia and also does the convoy get to move 5 spaces with naval base ? Now looks like the Uk will get most of lend lease and have to help out Russia more unless of course no G subs around.
    Its also says " after unloading, the L/L convoy must return to a sea zone adjacent to the US before all ships can return to normal operation.
    So I’m assuming that the convoy ships cannot attack anything until they return to a US.
    I like this rule now because then US can’t just send half their money every turn.
    It will be 6 turns before Russia gets any real money. That"s where I see it going to the UK more.

    It depends if Germany is capable of killing the lend-lease if it goes to russia.



  • The Russian Navy can serve as escorts. Lend lease convoys can be multinational.  They still would move together.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    @ghr2:

    @SS:

    I can see it being where if US lend lease convoy is attacked then that’s an act of war.
    Its going to take 2 turns just to get to Russia and also does the convoy get to move 5 spaces with naval base ? Now looks like the Uk will get most of lend lease and have to help out Russia more unless of course no G subs around.
    Its also says " after unloading, the L/L convoy must return to a sea zone adjacent to the US before all ships can return to normal operation.
    So I’m assuming that the convoy ships cannot attack anything until they return to a US.
    I like this rule now because then US can’t just send half their money every turn.
    It will be 6 turns before Russia gets any real money. That"s where I see it going to the UK more.

    It depends if Germany is capable of killing the lend-lease if it goes to russia.

    Yes I know that.

    But that Russian navy you use for L/L convoy can be attacked right away. That navy can play a big roll in are games.

    So I’m assuming that Germany attacking a L/L convoy with US and Russian navy would not be an act of war for attacking the Russians.
    .



  • It would be an act of war against Russia but not the US.



  • The original question was about pairing with escort ships. I can’t speak for anyone else, but if my escort ship(s) were attacked, I would consider that an act of war.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    In case this information is useful to the discussion: prior to the US entry into WWII, there were a number of shooting incidents in 1941 between German U-boats and American destroyers on Neutrality Patrol or serving as convoy-escort ships.  On September 4, U-652 and the patrolling USS Greer fired at each other (under disputed circumstances regarding who took the first shot).  On October 17, USS Kearny (escorting a convoy) was torpedoed by U-568; she survived with intermediate damage, suffering 11 dead and 22 wounded.  On October 31, USS Reuben James (on convoy escort duty) was torpedoed and sunk  by U-552, losing 115 men out of her complement of 160 cew members.  The US didn’t go to war over any of these incidents, but Roosevelt did retalitate in each case – for instance by instituting a “shoot on sight” policy for the US Navy against Axis warships after the Greer affair.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    Then the Russian navy cannot protect the L/L convoy until there at war with Germany. Rule does say any country not at war, doesn’t participate in the same sea zone being attack by countries already at war.
    So looks to me like The US can get attacked by Germany without US being at war. Russia will just have to wait until at war with Germany before it can escort.

    OR  if attacking US convoys by Germany makes it an act of war, then US will be at full production. That will keep Germany from Attacking right away. So if it is an act of war, I can see where the lend lease money will get to Russia in the early turns and then some.
    Same thing on other side with US and Japan.



  • I think the first one is right.



  • Does anyone know where I can find the one lend lease emblem that had all the allied flags behind the emblem?

    Thanks

    Scott



  • Cargo should load real unit not money.


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