• Founder TripleA Admin

    I’m going to be running an Axis & Allies 1942 Second Edition tournament in the SF Bay Area again at Kublacon. Last year, we had enough people for two rounds of play but I scheduled 3 rounds. This year I’d like to have only two rounds but also accommodate up to 8 teams.

    But how do you go from 4 games to 1 final game?

    First, we start with the Larry Harris tournament rules and Greg Smorey’s time limit rules.

    Next, at the end of the first round only two of the four winners proceed to the next round. The top two winners would be determined by how much they won by.

    The gist of this post is, how do you determine the strength of a win.

    1. Victory Cities - Net gain or total? Probably total.
    2. IPC totals of captured enemy territories
    2. OR IPC totals of captured enemy territories minus friendly territories that are enemy occupied.
    3. Total Unit Value - TUV

    Scenario with made up numbers: Team A, B, C, & D are the winners.

    Team A won with 8 VCs, Team B with 7, Team C with 7, Team B with 7
    Team A proceeds to the final round.

    Team B captured 32 IPCs worth of territories but lost 8. Net is 24.
    Team C captured 48 IPSs worth of territies but lost 30. Net is 18.

    Team B proceeds to the final round.

    Thoughts?

  • Sponsor

    I’m really struggling with how a winner can be declared within 2-3 rounds, and time limits for each round. It seems to me that the game is being forced to work around the tournament format rather than the tournament format being forced to work around the game. Of course I am inexperienced with tournament rules and challanges, so I have a lot to learn.

  • Founder TripleA Admin

    Face-to-face tournaments are always a compromise. At an event, you just don’t have enough time to “complete” a game of Axis & Allies so you have to time limit it.

  • Sponsor

    @djensen:

    Face-to-face tournaments are always a compromise. At an event, you just don’t have enough time to “complete” a game of Axis & Allies so you have to time limit it.

    I’m assuming your event was only 1 day, and again you only have one day this year?

    As for the strength of a win, how about TUD (total units dead).

    Each player begins the game with a blank record chart, every unit that comes of the board is recorded and tallied at the end of the game (with a pedetermined formula or score for each type of unit). I would record units lost on offense, and a separate column for units lost on defense.

    This should promote agressive play, and it may help balance the game without a bid seeing as the allies have 3 nations to take out units and the Axis only have 2… but are in better position.

    Just an idea I now had.

  • Founder TripleA Admin

    The conference is actually three days but I can only dedicate one day to it. This all might be moot if we only have 4 teams like last year.

    But just in case. Total units dead is an interesting idea.

  • '17 '16

    I’m maybe wrong since I don’t understand all the details.
    Does Axis player have an advantage, since in three rounds they are at the top of their momentum while the Allied player only start to wage war with the might of USA economic?

  • Founder TripleA Admin

    Yes, the Axis have the advantage. In tournaments, I’ve seen bids as high as 18 or 19 IPCs to the Allies and the Axis have still won. But that is what the bid is for, to even the playing field.

    4 hour 45 minute tournaments usually go 6-7 rounds. Rarely 5 rounds, rarely 8 rounds.

    With that, the game changes, because the most important objective is getting 1 more VC than your opponent by the end of rounds 5-7. This format would change even further because after you think you have a win, you need to start capturing previously unimportant territories so you can make it to the tournament finals.


  • Hi Dave,

    This is Andrew, and I participated in last year’s Kublacon tournament.

    I agree that the tournament plays very differently, and that Axis has a major edge. 15+ to allies seems like a reasonable range. By far the most important VC is Karelia because it’s the most contestable. France, Phillipines, and India are also considerations.

    I’m having a hard time thinking of a tie breaker that i’d feel satisfied with. It seems undesirable to establish tie breakers that alter the immediate game. How about just giving out two prizes without a winner? Short of that, i suggest just rolling a die.

    My specific issue with your 4 suggested options is that all favor either the allies or axis.
    #1 if both players are strong, the allies will seek to preserve 7 VCs while the axis seeks to capture 1 VC to go from 6 to 7. If one person wins as allies and the other wins as axis, the axis player will come out ahead per this rule.
    #2 IPC totals favors Allies heavily, net captured favors Axis heavily
    #3 same as #2
    #4 heavily favors allies

  • Sponsor

    So the Allies can capture and hold Paris, and/or Phillipines before the end of round 3?


  • I may be wrong but I think “rounds” in this case refers to tournament rounds, not rounds of gameplay. Seems like tournament games have a time limit of around 4 hours, which would allow for 5-6 rounds of gameplay.

  • '17 '16 '15 '14

    Can you setup a TripleA tournament for those players that would like to get schooled and don’t live in the area?

  • Founder TripleA Admin

    @MarineIguana:

    Hi Dave,

    This is Andrew, and I participated in last year’s Kublacon tournament.

    I agree that the tournament plays very differently, and that Axis has a major edge. 15+ to allies seems like a reasonable range. By far the most important VC is Karelia because it’s the most contestable. France, Phillipines, and India are also considerations.

    I’m having a hard time thinking of a tie breaker that i’d feel satisfied with. It seems undesirable to establish tie breakers that alter the immediate game. How about just giving out two prizes without a winner? Short of that, i suggest just rolling a die.

    My specific issue with your 4 suggested options is that all favor either the allies or axis.
    #1 if both players are strong, the allies will seek to preserve 7 VCs while the axis seeks to capture 1 VC to go from 6 to 7. If one person wins as allies and the other wins as axis, the axis player will come out ahead per this rule.
    #2 IPC totals favors Allies heavily, net captured favors Axis heavily
    #3 same as #2
    #4 heavily favors allies

    Even in a single elimination, when you have two strong players against each other, somebody loses and probably too early in the tournament.

    For #1, this is how standard tournament rules work. 7+ VCs and you win.

    In a timed format, one side or the other will have an advantage. A bid is there to even out those chances. In this format, bids to play the Allies might need to be very high.

    I think I’m going to go with:
    First tie breaker: total VCs
    Second tie breaker: captured territories (not your starting territories)
    Third tie breaker: coin toss

    I’m also going with 2 finals matches: a game for 1st/2nd and game for 3rd/4th. Anybody left over will be invited to play for fun. Maybe top 4 get prizes? 1 picks before 2 picks before 3 picks before 4.

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