Russia declaring war on Japan, can this happen?



  • Hi,

    in a mid game and i ( japan ) left korea open because i thought russia couldn’t attack japan, thinking it was JAPAN attacking russia to break the packt. Russia wants to walk in and take korea.

    Russia and germany already at war a previous turn.

    Playing OOB original rules. Who is right please?

    BH



  • Russia can declare against Japan whenever they want.



  • k thanks. reading too many rules…


  • 2017 2016 2015

    That’s alright though. Japan will be kicking Russia ass before you know it!



  • Yes, exactly what Japan did back and re took Korea. Hate and love this game!

    Thanks again for your answer.

    Bh



  • I assume you are playing second edition rules for the Global game.

    Look under Additional Rules on Pg 39 “Soviet-Mongolian Defense Pact”

    Because Russia broke the pact and attacked Korea, the Mongolians won’t become Russian when Japan retaliates (Japan can now attack Russian territories that border Mongolia w/o consequence).

    At this point Mongolia itself is still a considered a strict neutral. If Japan or Russia enter/attack Mongolia it would flip all the other strict neutrals to “pro” the other side (each strict neutral would join the other side as they are activated).

    PS: It normally isn’t in Russia’s best interest to break the pact, because it opens up the door for the Japanese to start taking Russian territory on the Pac map w/o consequences. As the Russians get pushed back, they will be giving up income and maybe units for the defense of Moscow. However the allies could be planning on converging on Japan to kill Japan first (KJF). This would require a major contribution by the USA. Basically you overload Japan and take it down. The allies would create a quagmire in Asia to stall the Japanese land battle, and start to close in on Japans income islands in the South Pacific (DEI). At some point there would be a major naval battle etc……



  • No Wild Bill, Original OOB rules G40.

    What ended up was that I allowed ( cos no clarification in OOB GE40 rules ) the russion infantry to goto Korea ( to break the pact ), and said verbally to the Russian player well, that’s silly cos I will just kill all of your men with a loaded Tokyo with planes and troops in Manchuria … which ended up happening, so now Russia loss all of those 18 men.

    I was reading…maybe I was hoping or maybe just got confused to make sure what was right in my thoughts, that with the European Axis vs European Russia ( so ger vs Russia ) yes, wait the 4th move,
    where in the Russia vs jap rules, it was JAPAN who could only attack Russia to bring them into war between Jap and Russia, NOT Russia coming into Japan ( like into a territory like Korea ).

    I see it a huge risk. Either pay the consequences and leave your 18 Russian men there to wait for a Japanese attack and also wait for USA support ( once they’re in war with Japan/German/Axis ),
    Or,
    pull 15 men back Westwards for support for the break on the Russian/German front line when Germany braces attack on Russia.

    So I guess it’s bait for Japan to see how long Russia can hold off not aggregating Japan.

    Just needed a clarification, can Russia attack Japan anytime in the game using 1st edition Global rules.
    What is the agreement though, if I say no to the Russian player and they ignore the judgement and come into Korea anyway, then I guess that’s the bitter relationship they have between them? Or vice verser of course.

    I guess, just be prepared and look at the possible loss of such a very risky gamble move.

    BH


  • 2019 2018 2017

    It makes sense for Russia to declare war on Japan immediately, on Russia’s first turn. Russia suffers no disadvantage by being at war with Japan, because the Mongolia rules only apply when certain territories are actually being attacked.
    Being at war with Japan gives the US access to Russian territory as soon as they are also at war with Japan. There is no reason to deny the US that option by not declaring war on Japan as Russia.



  • @creeping-deth87:

    Russia can declare against Japan whenever they want.

    Correct… and I find that there are many diverse opinions as to when and why Russia should DOW on Japan.


  • 2017 2016 2015

    That’s true YG. Mongolia can do a good job of protecting your flank.



  • Okay, great to here the same answer’s,

    thanks all!!

    BH



  • @Young:

    @creeping-deth87:

    Russia can declare against Japan whenever they want.

    Correct… and I find that there are many diverse opinions as to when and why Russia should DOW on Japan.

    Why should they not do so in the first round? Is there any downside?
    Of course only declare the war. Not attack.


  • Official Answers

    Since Bravehart is playing with the 1st edition rules, there is no Mongolia rule in effect.  Under the 1st edition rules, the details of the Soviet-Japanese non-aggression pact are undefined in the rules.  It is up to the players involved to negotiate the treaty, and it can involve any agreement that doesn’t break any other rules of the game.



  • Hiya Krieghund,

    Thanks for seeking my question here. Can you give an example of the treaty how players combine this please?

    Repeating the situation:
    the Russian and German player waited the 4th turn ( or Germany toyed with Russia till the 4th turn for Russia to make the first move on attack. As you know this 4th move is just between European Axis ).
    SO on 4th move Russia also went into Korea which was open ( as I was presuming Russia couldn’t attack Japan, as I moved units into deeper China territory ). I allowed it…after a few disagreements but how can it be solved?
    In the result, Russia payed the penalty and lost all but 3 men out of 18 who stayed out of the suicide move to Korea.
    I suppose the Russians want to goto war with Japan so it helps the USA come over to land an Indus complex in Korea/Manchuria?


  • Official Answers

    It’s totally up to the players involved what the terms of the treaty are (as long as no game rules are broken) and how to enforce those terms.  Just like in real life, you can’t always trust someone else to do what they say they’re going to do.



  • Best I can remember (loooong time since I played 1st edition OOB) is that there is nothing in the rules stopping the Russians or the Japanese from attacking/invading each other. I believe either could declare war on the other from the get go w/o any restrictions (unless you set terms for a pact like Krieghund said).

    Before the Mongolian Defense Pact came into play (2nd ed rules) some people used an NO type pact rule that simply gave 12 IPCs to the side that was attacked first. Some just added the IPCs it to their bank upon the attack (to use when there turn came up), some ppl awarded 12 IPC worth of units (or 4 inf) to be placed right on the board on any of the territories that were attacked. Again though, you probably needed to set this up before the game started lol.



  • That actually is a good suggestion Wild Bill, and yes to be made to suggest b4 game play ( it would of solved the mess I was in on the wkd!! ). House rules would have to be put into place.

    The other way of course is for us to start playing some, maybe not all, but some 2nd edition rulings that have an answer.

    BH



  • I thought that the victim of the attack would recvieve 12 ipcs in 1st addition



  • Nope, not in OOB rules.

    BH



  • G40 changed a lot from 1st edition to 2nd edition (the Alpha process). I would suggest you take a look at some of these changes in the near future (incorporating them into your games). G40 has really evolved, and one of the biggest changes IMO was to airbases. You can now scramble up to 3 aircraft from any airbase (not just island airbases that had unlimited scramble in 1st ed OOB). Just seemed wrong to be able to scramble from Japan, but not from England or other coastal territories w/AB.

    Alpha+1 introduced a Non Aggression Pact (NAP) in a form of an NO for both Japan and Russia. The 12 IPCs was awarded to the power that was attacked first (victim). It carried on into Alpha+2.

    Alpha+3 is when that was switched out to the Mongolian rules that we have now, and Korea was added to the mix in the second edition rules.



  • Thanks for the recap on the stages of the Alpha’s. I do like the newer rules I think compared to the OOB rules. Just gatta break the group on the next new game.

    BH


Log in to reply
 

Suggested Topics

  • 8
  • 5
  • 11
  • 10
  • 3
  • 4
  • 25
  • 8
I Will Never Grow Up Games
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys

47
Online

13.6k
Users

34.0k
Topics

1.3m
Posts