Central powers russia first crush tactic



  • now I would like everybody’s opinion on this:

    I have found that if germany attacks russian TT and austria reinforces there is not much anybody can do.

    you just leapfrog ahead and force revolution or capture moscow.

    with help from a strong german fleet with 3 transports to shuttle units from poland to karela or finland or ottoman support russia is done in 5 turns then all that money can be flung to the west, and that german transport fleet is critical to reducing the distance from berlin to paris from 5 to 4 spaces.

    so im inclined to believe in a stong german defensive fleet, cause any ship build by britain is less troops against the turk

    comments are appreciated  😄 8-)


  • Customizer

    Build a Russian super-stack in Belarus. Put ALL the Russian artillery there, most of the infantry and build enough planes to give you air superiority vs either G or A.

    If the CPs manage to break this they’ll have nothing left to hold back the Western Allies.



  • If Germany needs the Austrians to get good casualty ratios in case of a Russian attack, there’s no way the Germans will be able to get a good casualty ratio when it comes time to attack Moscow. And you will need to attack Moscow if you want a chance to force a Revolution, because otherwise Russia can just send some inf out to at least contest 3 of the 5 territories adjacent to Moscow.

    @gtsg:

    with help from a strong german fleet with 3 transports to shuttle units from poland to karela or finland or ottoman support russia is done in 5 turns then all that money can be flung to the west, and that german transport fleet is critical to reducing the distance from berlin to paris from 5 to 4 spaces.

    When are you building these transports? Certainly not G1, because then the Russian BB can hit them when your fleet destroys the Royal Navy. And if you are using them later to reduce the distance between Berlin & Paris, you’re gonna have to invade Holland, an extra 4 troops to the Allies and another landing spot for them.

    @gtsg:

    so im inclined to believe in a stong german defensive fleet, cause any ship build by britain is less troops against the turk

    And any ship built by Germany is less troops against France or Russia. Assuming you use the 2 Atlantic subs against SZ2, you’ll win SZ 9 on average with a damaged BB and a cruiser. These ships will also have to take out the Russian BB to clear a path for your transports (which will have to undergo at least 1 mine roll, more if Russia contests Karelia back)



  • first of all my friends and I are by no means experts at this game ( to much booze for that :lol:) so my ramblings may seem crazy to more expert eyes .

    but if you build fleet turn 1 (max 18 points depending on my mood) consolidate everything in seazone 10,I dont see how uk can break it turn 1.
      1 attack against cannada with subs,with 1 transport buillt every round

    then turn 2 you face the mines, destroy the russian BB and leave the transport there this is critical do not move the transport shuttle from poland to the front in finland

    second turn you move new transport to seazone 12 and continue this until there are 3 then you can with your fresh forces contest finland, karelia, load up austrians,… it just opens up options in my mind. 😄

    as far as holland goes I tend to take it turn 1 with 4 inf 4 guns 1 fighter so no worries there cause arti helps CP right along detering allied landings behind the front cause of the pre shot ability 🙂

    but your views are duly noted as a counter to this move flashman but I tend to get lucky in dice so I tend to take more risks cheers



  • Germen fleet
    I agree with ColonelCarter, that every ship bought is less infantry on the western front where its needed. I like to bring everything form both Berlin and Hannover G1 to Silicia, so for me an all out infantry buy G1 is crucial.

    Stacking Belarus
    I stack Galicia AH1 with almost everything I can muster, something like 34inf and 10 art (I attack Serbia with 8 inf/2art but leave Rumania alone). This means Russia unless sucidal will empty Ukraine and Polen R1, stack Belarus with 27inf/10art.
    G1, I stack Polen with 12 inf/6art and 1plane and AH2 I move into Ukraine with 34inf/10art and 1 plane (bought AH1).
    R2 is now very tricky, usually ending up in retreat. What do you do Flashman?


  • Customizer

    Keep stacking. Make sure you have more planes than either of the enemy stacks (proximity to Moscow means you should maintain this.)

    Reinforce from UK via Atlantic convoy or from India if needed.

    The advantage is with the defender, don’t throw it away; it’s the CPs who’re short on time.



  • @Oddbjoern:

    Stacking Belarus
    I stack Galicia AH1 with almost everything I can muster, something like 34inf and 10 art (I attack Serbia with 8 inf/2art but leave Rumania alone). This means Russia unless sucidal will empty Ukraine and Polen R1, stack Belarus with 27inf/10art.

    I would still stack Ukraine as Russia. The Austrian count that can attack is 34 inf, 8 art, 1 fig. That’s 43 units, with 18 1/3 hits on average. As Russia I’d send 1 inf from Sevastopol to activate Romania (pays for itself, and you have to kill them or defend Budapest) The remaining Russians will go to Ukraine, creating a super stack of 29 inf, 11 art, for 40 units with 20 hits on average. Russia would buy 3 inf, 1 art, 2 fig to be able to counter a Ukraine attack with air supremacy. They’d also have the Romanians, the Livonians, the Karelian, and the buy to counter with.

    If Austria makes the attack and gets 19 hits to the Russia’s 20, they’ll have 14 inf, 8 art, 1 fig left and Russia will have 10 inf, 11 art left. Russia will then attack the remaining Austrians with 24 inf, 15 art, 2 fig. Not going to be pretty for Austria.

    So since you won’t be able to prevent Russia from stacking Ukraine once, you might as well smash both Serbia and Romania, take the extra money and force them out Round 2 when you have the Serbian task force, the Tyrolians, and a full ground Round 1 buy.



  • Well I kinda agree that you should attack Romania as well AH1. My previous point was to illustrate how much pressure you can put on Russia.
    I normally go for a 8inf/2art attack on Serbia (all from Trieste and 2 inf from Budapest) and a 14inf/4art attack on Romania.

    However in the stack Galicia/stack Ukraine scenario. I would in Turk1 I would take Sevastopol with 1inf from Meso and stack bulgaria with all of Constantinopel (total of 12inf/3art). G1 would involve taking Poland with 12inf/6art/1plane and stacking behind that 19inf/3art (Berlin+Hannover).
    In AH2 I would ofc not attack but rather attack Romania with Serbia (should have 6inf/2art) and move 2 additional art from Vienna to Galica (I always buy 4inf/2art/1plane AH1). The turk2 could later finish them of in Romania.

    With 34inf/10art/1plane in Galicia (AH), 12inf/6art/1plane in Poland (G) and 1inf in Sev (T). I would be interrested in the R2. Would you attack Poland (or Sev), continue stacking Ukraine or fall back?



  • If Austria goes full after Russia like that, you just fall back to Belarus Round 2. Put 1-2 inf in Tatarstan so the Ottomans can’t move up farther. Germany will move up to Livonia and Austria will move up to Ukraine, so Round 3 Russia just falls back to Moscow. From there on out, Russia just sends out enough infantry to its radial territories so that it doesn’t revolt and lose 60+ units for nothing. If Austria keeps adding fighters slowly, Russia can afford to contest the skies; but if they do an all-out fighter buy some turn then it’s not worth it.

    Fortunately for Russia though, the CPs’ western fronts will be incredibly weak. I’d be surprised if Germany could keep Belgium uncontested Round 2, and if Germany doesn’t significantly support Austria in the west, Italy will be trading either Tyrolia or Trieste for a couple turns. Plus, Britain will advance quicker on the Ottomans if all the Constantinople guys go north.



  • Well thats how it usually goes in our games. AH can buy 2 more planes AH2 which means russia will have to buy 2 R2 (same in AH3/R3). By T4 Russia usually have something like 47inf/15art/6planes. Germany usually attacks in turn 4 with 31inf/9art (which is kinda sucidal but they live with 4-7 units) and AH supports AH5 (without attacking R5). Making Russia go into revolution after R5 since it wont be able to crush AH.

    And yes the western front will be kinda weak as you say.

    The Ottoman force will invade Sevastopol T3 and make up another front against the British, which means the troops arent really gone. Also this will mean the ottomans will have more IPC to throw in (especially if they get the Romania).

    This strat is not even close to bulletproof but it is the best Ive come up with to counter the Allies. All other tactic such as going ful tilt west or diving forces, seem to fail 10/10 against a decent player since its to slow and means the allies will use its initial income ratio to win.



  • Are you guys talking about the new rules or the OOB rules? That is actually important. If you are playing with the new ones, attack Russia with all of the central powers. Russia will collapse by turn four if the central powers have brains. Then The Central powers should all attack France. The Ottomans in Russia should follow Germany, Austria should go for Northern Italy and Southern France, and Germany should combine in one big force and attack France. Even with the OOB rules, you should crush Russia with the central powers (granted it will be take a long time but I think they can pull it off). The Western Front should distract France as much as possible but not go crazy.



  • Im talking about the orginal rules.



  • Russia’s clearly going to die here; as the Allies I’d probably just rely on the West to (slowly) beat the CPs back. By the time Russia revolts, both France and Italy will have comfortably large stacks, Britain should be making quite a bit from Middle Eastern territory (the second front in Sevastopol still leaves Ankara much weaker than normal, and the Ottomans rarely have enough units to actually threaten the British stack in Mesopotamia), and America will be landing 6-8 units in the Balkans or Italy for the rest of the game.

    However, assuming Germany contests Moscow, have you considered leaving those Germans to die and just sending your entire Austrian stack (minus anything needed to secure the Revolution) to Sevastopol? Greatly steps up the pressure on India and threatens the Allies a lot quicker than taking the turn into Moscow to save 5-7 Germans and 4 more turns back to the Italian front. I’m still worried about how Germany will handle in the West, but this might be working toward some chance of CP victory.



  • Reading the rules again, I begin to get a bit fussy about the RR rule. We have always run with that Moscow have to be contested in order to RR to occur. I now realize that perhaps thats wrong and that for example  holding Ukraine, Polen, Belarus and Livonia is enough?
    IN our games AH have to put enough units in AH% in order for Russia not to be able to kill them all in R5. However if we have been wrong about RR, the 4-7 remaining Germans from G4 is enough since Russia cant advance untill they have been destroyed… And in that scenario AH can have its entire stack moved from Ukraine to Sevastopol in round 5, very much changing Britians advance.

    In the west Germany usually have to tactically retreat in r2-r3. However since all buys from G1 and forward will be moved into the west they wont need to retreat further. And even with Belgium and perhaps an orginal German territory gone they will have an income advantage against France alone and therefore push them back r4 and forward.

    Same goes for Italy really. AH will use all its income towards Italy (exept 5 planes in r1-3 = 30 IPC). And by r4-5 AH will push Italy out of Trieste/Tyrole for good.


Log in to reply
 

Suggested Topics

  • 4
  • 7
  • 22
  • 9
  • 6
  • 14
  • 7
  • 11
I Will Never Grow Up Games
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys

36
Online

14.0k
Users

34.4k
Topics

1.4m
Posts