Russia and USA not at war

  • I’ve been playing Axis and Allies Europe many times now, but it seemed impossible for the Axis powers to win. Operation Barbarossa crashes after Ukraine and Leningrad, due to too long supply lines, and UK and USA invade on the European mainland on the fifth turn already (USA lands on Gibraltar/Morocco the fouth turn). So, I was wondering, do Russia and USA actually have a turn when they’re not at war with any Axis power yet? Without, the game seems to be much more balanced. Moreover, the element of surprise in Operation Barbarossa is totally gone if Russia already has to chance to prepare itself one or two turns.

  • Both US and USSR are not at war until turn 4. This can be changed if you declare war on them earlier. Obviously you’d never declare war on US first, so he will declare war at the end of his 3rd turn and collect his NO money starting then. Russia Can only declare war at the start of his 4th turn if Germany has not yet done so.

    The best axis strats in Europe stand alone all involve Germany not declaring war on USSR till turn 3 or turn 4. This is because Russia gets a 9 dollar NO when at war.

    Honestly this map greatly favors the axis.

  • Read About The Mahatma Gambit!  …. It will answer your question!

  • Thanks for replying, but I do not really have an answer on my question.

    I understand that USSR and USA do not recieve bonusses until they are at war, but my question was: do the USSR and USA have a turn, when they’re not at war with any Axis powers yet? Isn’t the effect of surprise in operation Barbarossa totally gone if the USSR can prepare itself for one, two or three turns? Secondly, it is not realistic if USSR puts as much money in its army as Germany (both about 30 IPCs) in summer 1940 and the USA even more (35 IPCs), is it?

    As soon as UK and USA start invading the mainland of Europe every turn from the fifth turn on, Germany can’t spend its IPCs on stuff heading for Russia anymore, and it’s impossible to break Russia before the sixth turn, certainly not if you only start the fourth turn?

    Does anyone have a clue?

  • Yes, the US & USSR have a turn before they’re at war. You say Germany can’t spend IPCs against Russia from the fifth turn on, and this is true. However, Germany should have enough to take Moscow by G6-7 (last purchase on G5), as long as Germany waits until G3 to DoW the Russians. G1 you buy slow (inf/art) in Germany, and G2-G3/4 you buy fast (mech/tank) in Germany. After that you buy art or tanks at the forward captured factories and planes in Western Germany. Once Moscow is captured, Germany can turn around hard with the Russian money in hand and NOs from Russian territory.

  • Hi Arietrb,

    per ROCmonster , USA and USSR are not in war till Turn 4. Best Axis stats in Europe all involve Germany not declaring on USSR till T4.

    With  The Mahatma gambit, Japan usually has no choice but to declare on J2.

    That will get the WWII started.

    US2 to US 4 can go all toward Japan OR toward Germany… in either case one or another will fall!

    Look into the posts in detail and you will understand.

  • @MeinHerr:

    With  The Mahatma gambit, Japan usually has no choice but to declare on J2.

    ….and exactly where in the Europe map is Japan ?

  • Hi ColonelCarter,

    Thanks a lot for your answer. I’ll try your strategy next time. But I still think it is not very difficult for the Russian player to hold Moscow if it has two turns 28 IPCs to spend and another three or four turns with an average of about 32 IPCs (also 14 IPCs bonus) to spend on defensive units, like infantry and fighters. If it spends all its IPCs on infantry and Germany attacks the sixth turn, the Russian player has added not less than fifty infantry to its army to defend Moscow.

  • I edited my previous post a bit, somehow I deleted part of the explanation without noticing.

    Some extra things to note though are:
    Russia should never collect their Lend-Lease National Objective; a single sub in SZ 125 prevents them from collecting on it.
    A G6 attack on Moscow is generally a little risky, especially if Britain/France have flown some fighters in. A G7 is a much safer attack (because you can attack with additional mech/tank purchased on G4 in Germany.

  • Hi ColonelCarter,

    I doubt whether the German player should protect the Russiun player from getting the Lend/Lease bonus: as long as Russia collects this bonus, no British, French or American fighters will be flown in. Secondly, the British player will easily destroy a submarine in SZ 125.

  • I dont think you understand how many units germany can get to moscow. In my played out games against myself i like doing a turn 8 attack against moscow. If only russia defends you will win with 60 german units left.

    This map is heavily axis favored. The only strat the allies can do to make it somewhat even is attacking the true neutrals turn 4. Us needs to be able to land units into europe with a shuck

  • Hi theROCmonster,

    I would really like to play sometime against you. Believe me, if Russia consistently avoids any battle until Moscow, it can easily hold it.

  • You highly underestimate the number of units Germany can send. On a G3 DoW, Germany can put 62 ground attack units into Russian territory (not including the Finns, they won’t reach Moscow by G6). Add another 10 for the G3 buy, plus about 3 fig, 5 tac, 2 bmb remaining from the original Luftwaffe, plus probably ~6 more tacs in G4-5 buys yields 88 units set to attack Moscow on G6. A max defense of Russia (only building inf, with a few mech R4 where inf wouldn’t make it into Moscow, and a few tank R5 to spend >30 IPCs), yields 90 units defending Moscow. (this assumes Russia doesn’t put out any blocking inf, but that will probably result in the loss of Ukraine G4, meaning G can put 3 more tanks into the attack) Although Russia has more units, most of them only roll @2, while about half of Germany’s army is rolling @3 or 4 giving an average of 16 Germany units remaining, which would be 14 planes, 2 tanks. This may seem like a pyrrhic victory, but Germany just destroyed every single Russian unit (excluding naval) on the map, and will easily capture the rich Russian south, while using the Russian money to create Fortress Europe, since the US & Britain have to spend extra money on transports to move units across the water.

    This also completely ignores Italy, who in the best case scenario for the Allies will have its entire navy destroyed and been forced to stack ground in Europe, which is still another problem for the Wallies.

  • Hi ColonelCarter,

    Thanks so much for your reply. I will tell a bit about the background of my question. We played Axis and Allies 1940 Europa a number of times, in the beginning the Axis player could still surprise the Allies player with a new strategy now and then, but at the end we had a ‘solution’ for every Axis strategy, and the Allies always won. So, we were looking for ways making the game a little more balanced, and as a result we wondered whether Russia and USA actually have a turn before they are at war. But after reading your response, I must admit that there still Axis strategies to try and hopefully our games with become a little more exciting:)

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