French Territories: Poll Question



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  • I think it is highly dependent on the axis plan to say what is ‘best’.
    A: If Germany wants to (try to) crush Moscow no later than GE6-GE8, I consider ‘Only France’ the best option. This conserves units, as Germany cannot afford to loose more units than ‘average’.

    B: But if the axis are in no hurry to capture any VCs because they are going to try to win economically by slowly building up pressure everywhere, Germany can afford to loose a few more mech and I’d go for ‘France + Southern France’. SF is crucial for German fleetbuilds to pressure the allies in the med.

    Difficult to say which option is best, but since I have had no problems as the allies dealing with axis crush plans in the past, but plan B giving me a very hard time lately, I tend to go for option B (and thus, take SF along with the main prize).


  • Customizer

    I don’t know if it is the “best” option for Germany, but my personal favorite is to attack France, Southern France and Normandy. As Germany, I like getting all three. France is obvious, Normandy I like for the IC and naval base, especially if I am not planning for a Sea lion. Southern France is good for access to the Med.
    I am surprised at how few people want to take Normandy. If I plan to leave one of the three, then I would leave Southern France to Italy. I always take Normandy.
    Although, I can see why it is good strategy to leave it. If Normandy stays French, then the Allies can land there but not use the IC. It might be a little easier to push them back into the sea.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    South of France always. Used to do Normandy instead years ago, but never do now.
    I expect France to love into Belgium, but it doesn’t bother me unduly.


  • 2015

    I like to leave Normandy completely untaken if I can. Makes it that much harder for the Americans and Brits to get a real foothold in Europe.  I’ll only take it if I’m reasonably certain I can stop Allied landings before they happen.



  • @Shin:

    I like to leave Normandy completely untaken if I can. Makes it that much harder for the Americans and Brits to get a real foothold in Europe.  I’ll only take it if I’m reasonably certain I can stop Allied landings before they happen.

    Due to that they cannot use shore bombardment? Or is there more reasons to why it makes it harder for allies to get the foothold with Normandy still Frensh?


  • Customizer

    @DiscoKnekt:

    @Shin:

    I like to leave Normandy completely untaken if I can. Makes it that much harder for the Americans and Brits to get a real foothold in Europe.  I’ll only take it if I’m reasonably certain I can stop Allied landings before they happen.

    Due to that they cannot use shore bombardment? Or is there more reasons to why it makes it harder for allies to get the foothold with Normandy still Frensh?

    If Normandy is still French, the Allies can not use the IC to build up in Europe. So if the Allies want to reinforce their beach head, they have to transport them over.



  • @knp7765:

    @DiscoKnekt:

    @Shin:

    I like to leave Normandy completely untaken if I can. Makes it that much harder for the Americans and Brits to get a real foothold in Europe.  I’ll only take it if I’m reasonably certain I can stop Allied landings before they happen.

    Due to that they cannot use shore bombardment? Or is there more reasons to why it makes it harder for allies to get the foothold with Normandy still Frensh?

    If Normandy is still French, the Allies can not use the IC to build up in Europe. So if the Allies want to reinforce their beach head, they have to transport them over.

    Ahh true! We are running house rule that permits destruction of IC´s so the Normandy IC usually always gets blown to pieces! 🙂


  • 2015

    @DiscoKnekt:

    @Shin:

    I like to leave Normandy completely untaken if I can. Makes it that much harder for the Americans and Brits to get a real foothold in Europe.  I’ll only take it if I’m reasonably certain I can stop Allied landings before they happen.

    Due to that they cannot use shore bombardment? Or is there more reasons to why it makes it harder for allies to get the foothold with Normandy still Frensh?

    What I meant by stop Allied landings was having enough fleet and air so that they can’t even approach Europe without being sent to the bottom of the ocean.



  • How do you go about invading Germany as the allies? In what kind of situations have you done it, what turn, approximately how many units, etc…? In our games it seems the only possibility is when Germany has most of their aircraft out of range of Normandy.



  • @ItIsILeClerc:

    I think it is highly dependent on the axis plan to say what is ‘best’.
    A: If Germany wants to (try to) crush Moscow no later than GE6-GE8, I consider ‘Only France’ the best option. This conserves units, as Germany cannot afford to loose more units than ‘average’.

    B: But if the axis are in no hurry to capture any VCs because they are going to try to win economically by slowly building up pressure everywhere, Germany can afford to loose a few more mech and I’d go for ‘France + Southern France’. SF is crucial for German fleetbuilds to pressure the allies in the med.

    Difficult to say which option is best, but since I have had no problems as the allies dealing with axis crush plans in the past, but plan B giving me a very hard time lately, I tend to go for option B (and thus, take SF along with the main prize).

    Do you attack southern france with 3 mechs and the fighter in Hungary?



  • @theROCmonster:

    @ItIsILeClerc:

    I think it is highly dependent on the axis plan to say what is ‘best’.
    A: If Germany wants to (try to) crush Moscow no later than GE6-GE8, I consider ‘Only France’ the best option. This conserves units, as Germany cannot afford to loose more units than ‘average’.

    B: But if the axis are in no hurry to capture any VCs because they are going to try to win economically by slowly building up pressure everywhere, Germany can afford to loose a few more mech and I’d go for ‘France + Southern France’. SF is crucial for German fleetbuilds to pressure the allies in the med.

    Difficult to say which option is best, but since I have had no problems as the allies dealing with axis crush plans in the past, but plan B giving me a very hard time lately, I tend to go for option B (and thus, take SF along with the main prize).

    Do you attack southern france with 3 mechs and the fighter in Hungary?

    Yup. 100% chance to win with LL (also in France itself) and you have to be extremely unlucky to loose with Dice as well.

    @ Axisman:
    I think on a J1DOW the USA is too pre occupied with Japan to be able to mount a serious enough invasion force for Normandy early. They have an early ~100IPCs to spare for Europe, and since producing an adequate escort already costs at least 84IPCs… there is no such thing as an invasion force that can be produced with ~16IPCs.
    On a J3/4DOW the USA can have a maximum of 13TRS with adequate escorts, so that’s ~26 land units, 4FTR (that are also escorting the fleet) and a couple of STR that can invade US5-US7, depending on the situation in the med. Together with UK units this can make up for a serious enough invasion force (40-50 invaders). Be prepared though… it may not be enough. At the expense of its progress in Russia, Germany may still completely prevent any allied landings so this does not guarantee the possibility to invade. It is however (and sadly enough), about the maximum size of invasion force the allies can muster.

    Note that ‘adequate escorts’ from the USA are not enough to protect the fleet from the Luftwaffe, so the UK must supplement. For this, the ABs in Gibraltar (UK must build one) and London will provide 3 scramblers and the UK often must also build 1 or more carriers + their FTR and a minimum of 1 DD as well.



  • Very interesting Clerc, thanks. Do you know where I can find more strategic discussion on this forum on global 1940, any key threads you know of? The articles on this forum seem to be aiming at the very basics of the game.



  • @ItIsILeClerc:

    @theROCmonster:

    @ItIsILeClerc:

    I think it is highly dependent on the axis plan to say what is ‘best’.
    A: If Germany wants to (try to) crush Moscow no later than GE6-GE8, I consider ‘Only France’ the best option. This conserves units, as Germany cannot afford to loose more units than ‘average’.

    B: But if the axis are in no hurry to capture any VCs because they are going to try to win economically by slowly building up pressure everywhere, Germany can afford to loose a few more mech and I’d go for ‘France + Southern France’. SF is crucial for German fleetbuilds to pressure the allies in the med.

    Difficult to say which option is best, but since I have had no problems as the allies dealing with axis crush plans in the past, but plan B giving me a very hard time lately, I tend to go for option B (and thus, take SF along with the main prize).

    Do you attack southern france with 3 mechs and the fighter in Hungary?

    Yup. 100% chance to win with LL (also in France itself) and you have to be extremely unlucky to loose with Dice as well.

    @ Axisman:
    I think on a J1DOW the USA is too pre occupied with Japan to be able to mount a serious enough invasion force for Normandy early. They have an early ~100IPCs to spare for Europe, and since producing an adequate escort already costs at least 84IPCs… there is no such thing as an invasion force that can be produced with ~16IPCs.
    On a J3/4DOW the USA can have a maximum of 13TRS with adequate escorts, so that’s ~26 land units, 4FTR (that are also escorting the fleet) and a couple of STR that can invade US5-US7, depending on the situation in the med. Together with UK units this can make up for a serious enough invasion force (40-50 invaders). Be prepared though… it may not be enough. At the expense of its progress in Russia, Germany may still completely prevent any allied landings so this does not guarantee the possibility to invade. It is however (and sadly enough), about the maximum size of invasion force the allies can muster.

    Note that ‘adequate escorts’ from the USA are not enough to protect the fleet from the Luftwaffe, so the UK must supplement. For this, the ABs in Gibraltar (UK must build one) and London will provide 3 scramblers and the UK often must also build 1 or more carriers + their FTR and a minimum of 1 DD as well.

    How can you have more money to spend in the Atlantic with a Japan T3 DOW? I feel like Japan has more fleet in a T3 than in a T1, so Hawaii becomes easier to take. The only thing that could make taking all 6 VC’s with Japan more difficult is that India will be a lot stronger, but if you see US spending that much in Atlantic you can afford to put another factory down, or offload more men from Japan.

    Maybe you can build up a large landing force for Europe, and if nothing opens up then you move that force back to the pacific to keep Japan from getting Hawaii? It just seems really hard to get a big enough invasion force up that can defend against German air and ships, as well as have enough units to actually threaten Southern Italy or Western Germany. Landing in Normandy sounds great and all, but to keep that force alive you’d have to continually put units there, and I don’t see how you have to money to spare to be able to do that…



  • I normally do France and S France G1, although I will probably get convoyed by the French. That way I can get a few subs/ships to help Italy if need be. Hadn’t thought of leaving Normandy alone for the purpose of the allies not utilizing the IC interesting….



  • @theROCmonster:

    @ItIsILeClerc:

    @theROCmonster:

    @ItIsILeClerc:

    I think it is highly dependent on the axis plan to say what is ‘best’.
    A: If Germany wants to (try to) crush Moscow no later than GE6-GE8, I consider ‘Only France’ the best option. This conserves units, as Germany cannot afford to loose more units than ‘average’.

    B: But if the axis are in no hurry to capture any VCs because they are going to try to win economically by slowly building up pressure everywhere, Germany can afford to loose a few more mech and I’d go for ‘France + Southern France’. SF is crucial for German fleetbuilds to pressure the allies in the med.

    Difficult to say which option is best, but since I have had no problems as the allies dealing with axis crush plans in the past, but plan B giving me a very hard time lately, I tend to go for option B (and thus, take SF along with the main prize).

    Do you attack southern france with 3 mechs and the fighter in Hungary?

    Yup. 100% chance to win with LL (also in France itself) and you have to be extremely unlucky to loose with Dice as well.

    @ Axisman:
    I think on a J1DOW the USA is too pre occupied with Japan to be able to mount a serious enough invasion force for Normandy early. They have an early ~100IPCs to spare for Europe, and since producing an adequate escort already costs at least 84IPCs… there is no such thing as an invasion force that can be produced with ~16IPCs.
    On a J3/4DOW the USA can have a maximum of 13TRS with adequate escorts, so that’s ~26 land units, 4FTR (that are also escorting the fleet) and a couple of STR that can invade US5-US7, depending on the situation in the med. Together with UK units this can make up for a serious enough invasion force (40-50 invaders). Be prepared though… it may not be enough. At the expense of its progress in Russia, Germany may still completely prevent any allied landings so this does not guarantee the possibility to invade. It is however (and sadly enough), about the maximum size of invasion force the allies can muster.

    Note that ‘adequate escorts’ from the USA are not enough to protect the fleet from the Luftwaffe, so the UK must supplement. For this, the ABs in Gibraltar (UK must build one) and London will provide 3 scramblers and the UK often must also build 1 or more carriers + their FTR and a minimum of 1 DD as well.

    How can you have more money to spend in the Atlantic with a Japan T3 DOW? I feel like Japan has more fleet in a T3 than in a T1, so Hawaii becomes easier to take. The only thing that could make taking all 6 VC’s with Japan more difficult is that India will be a lot stronger, but if you see US spending that much in Atlantic you can afford to put another factory down, or offload more men from Japan.

    Maybe you can build up a large landing force for Europe, and if nothing opens up then you move that force back to the pacific to keep Japan from getting Hawaii? It just seems really hard to get a big enough invasion force up that can defend against German air and ships, as well as have enough units to actually threaten Southern Italy or Western Germany. Landing in Normandy sounds great and all, but to keep that force alive you’d have to continually put units there, and I don’t see how you have to money to spare to be able to do that…

    Why can the USA have more to spend in Europe with a T3?
    I am not 100% sure why it works this way, but I have seen that it does. I’ll try to give it an explanation, but it is stil a bit of ‘guesswork’, mind you (and sorry for the deviation from the subject):

    1. Japan’s economy develops slower.
    2. The USA’s economy also, but a few valuable units are allowed to escape and can consolidate (FTR+warships from Phil).
    3. You said it already: India becomes stronger so Japan also needs to spend more in order to at least isolate it.
    4. (In combination with 3 above) the main threat to India early, is the IJN with all its transports. IJN cannot threaten both Hawaii and India at the same time with it. Therefore, a serious threat to Hawaii, sets India loose.
    5. Japan also cannot take the DEI without decent protection of its transports, so taking the DEI later means Japan can turn around towards Hawaii later, which means the USA has more time to build up defenses there.

    I see all JP players going for India + China first, and then turn around for the USA anyway. The only time that Ive seen it otherwise, was a mixed success. India, China and Russia got very strong indeed, almost ridding JP of Hong Kong + Shanghai. JP was barely able to hold on to those, but got Hawaii, indeed ;-). Then Japan found out the IJN was ‘stuck’ at Hawaii because leaving it would return it into American hands again. At this point, JP cannot keep HK and/or Shanghai in Asia AND hold on to Hawaii. I guess that is why most players (if not all) Always go ‘India + China first’.

    About the USA not being able to have money to spare after they land in Normany; I agree, but it depends on Japan. If JP spends nothing in Asia, the USA cannot spend anything in Europe. The more JP spends in Asia, the more the USA can keep sending into Europe. Usually the UK is indeed alone again in Europe after an invasion force lands, because the USA cannot spare a single dollar for this theatre anymore. But again, that is entirely up to Japan.

    I don’t like that JP in the mid to late to very late game still dictates what the allies can or cannot do in Europe, but that’s A&A. At least the USA can build up some sort of invasion threat, if only for keeping Germany from sending everything into Russia.



  • Hey YG, while on the subject of France, have you got a set of Vichy French rules you use in G40? I don’t mean to change the subject but a while back we were playing Global War (has its own map and rule set that is pretty cool if you haven’t checked it out). In that game there are more French territories and units, but after the fall of Paris the French territories and units (ships included) are rolled for. Most units are destroyed, but a few are awarded to the axis, some allies (depends on the dice). I really liked that mechanism, and your rules seem to be well thought out, and fun w/o being over done.



  • I see what you’re saying. One of the reasons why I like allowing Anzac to bid an inf in new guinea is that is helps the allies more against a Japan T1.



  • Depends on the strategy, but most often I like to take France and Normandy, saving Southern France for Italy.

    My reason is that I really don’t like to attack the French ships in the Med using German planes.  And so obviously, if I take Southern France as Germany then those French ships will “Convoy Block” that territory.

    I’d rather kill the French ships with Italy and use some Italian troops to take Southern France simultaneously, so that the income is useful immediately.



  • @AlphaKappa:

    Depends on the strategy, but most often I like to take France and Normandy, saving Southern France for Italy.

    My reason is that I really don’t like to attack the French ships in the Med using German planes.  And so obviously, if I take Southern France as Germany then those French ships will “Convoy Block” that territory.

    I’d rather kill the French ships with Italy and use some Italian troops to take Southern France simultaneously, so that the income is useful immediately.

    WOW… Great point… as a group we rarely take Southern France with Germany G1, but in the games where we do, I can tell you for sure that we don’t use the French ships to convoy after Germany collects their money.

    We won’t be making that mistake again.


  • 2019 2015 '14

    In tripleA this happens automatically at the end of the round. So I think if people take S France they’d be doing it for the G2 production rather than the income. I think the S. France play is probably more popular among LL players than dice, since you can ensure that both territoires are taken if you bring the fighter from Slovakia. In dice nothing is for certain, so the risk is much greater. You also can’t count on a strafe 111 or being able to know for sure how much air to bring to Taranto to ensure victory. So in dice play it’s probably not worth taking S. France on G1, unless you’re trying to drop ships in the med the following rounds.



  • I agree Elk, the only time I would try south france is in LL format.


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